He's an automatic promotion to the senior list this year with Dawes out of action.
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Who is happy with todays DRAFT results..
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He's an automatic promotion to the senior list this year with Dawes out of action.
My take on it:
Reid and Brown seem likely types, I'm especially thrilled with their legspeed.
They dont solve our ruck problems but do add potentail depth to our ruck stocks. Reid seems capaable of playing at both ends of the ground while Brown is more a defender, which we dont really need short term.
Dawes is an unbelieveably risky punt.
Dikkk sounds lively
Goldsack is a punt, but all late picks are speculative. Nice size - good tall midfielders are worth their weight in gold.
We've recruited long term, and still have no spare rucks or enough mids.
Reid and Brown seem likely types, I'm especially thrilled with their legspeed.
They dont solve our ruck problems but do add potentail depth to our ruck stocks. Reid seems capaable of playing at both ends of the ground while Brown is more a defender, which we dont really need short term.
Dawes is an unbelieveably risky punt.
Dikkk sounds lively
Goldsack is a punt, but all late picks are speculative. Nice size - good tall midfielders are worth their weight in gold.
We've recruited long term, and still have no spare rucks or enough mids.
- Sep 14, 2005
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Theres been some chit chat since this post. But this paragraph probably sums up the frame of mind all of us are in. Some may not have realised it yet.
I really hope they were the best available and not just 'great tall prospects'
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CONGRATULATIONS to the Collingwood Recruiting Dept. for Drafting Chris Dawes! I have seen him play and is a fantastic player.When he did his knee he was so upset and said his chances of getting drafted were NIL. I don't normally have anything nice to say about the Pies (ha ha ha) but this was just a Fantastic pick up,Well Done guys!..........
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I think that perhaps people are a little too hung up on size with respect to midfield.
I think that what is increasingly important is that as many players as possible are able to continuously run and provide support. This capability is increasingly a requirement of all players even kpp's.
We all know that Fraser and Goodes do it. Some have contemplated that Reiwoldt's ideal position is as a Goodes type midfielder. Jonathon Brown has played midfield as has Pavlich. B.Hall and Tredrea often wander up to the midfield.
The problem with these mobile kpp, particularly forwards, wandering to midfield is that it robs the forward line of potency.
Providing your talls have endurance and are good below their knees, I don't see any problem in their playing a dual role without becoming topheavy.
Thus, I see no problem in Reid, Fraser and Cloke being on the ground at the same time. If for example, Cloke wanders to the midfield to get the ball, Reid could wander to the forward line to maintain its big man potency without compromising mobility.
I suggest that Anthony, Cox, O'brien, Brown, Fraser, Reid and Cloke while all tallish (to varying degrees) are all good below their knees, mobile, and can be viewed as part of an extended midfield.
Conversely, Rusling who is the right size and extremely quick, is not good below the knees (for example I don't recall him ever bouncing the ball on the run) and seems destined to be a lead/mark type player.
I think that what is increasingly important is that as many players as possible are able to continuously run and provide support. This capability is increasingly a requirement of all players even kpp's.
We all know that Fraser and Goodes do it. Some have contemplated that Reiwoldt's ideal position is as a Goodes type midfielder. Jonathon Brown has played midfield as has Pavlich. B.Hall and Tredrea often wander up to the midfield.
The problem with these mobile kpp, particularly forwards, wandering to midfield is that it robs the forward line of potency.
Providing your talls have endurance and are good below their knees, I don't see any problem in their playing a dual role without becoming topheavy.
Thus, I see no problem in Reid, Fraser and Cloke being on the ground at the same time. If for example, Cloke wanders to the midfield to get the ball, Reid could wander to the forward line to maintain its big man potency without compromising mobility.
I suggest that Anthony, Cox, O'brien, Brown, Fraser, Reid and Cloke while all tallish (to varying degrees) are all good below their knees, mobile, and can be viewed as part of an extended midfield.
Conversely, Rusling who is the right size and extremely quick, is not good below the knees (for example I don't recall him ever bouncing the ball on the run) and seems destined to be a lead/mark type player.
And I suggest they would get slaughtered on the MCG (or Subi etc) in September. It is all well and good to have rotational options but they have to be rotating with guns. Take a look at the midfields that win premierships. Sydney had probably the worst names but they still had some real class and they built a game plan around their strengths.
Not sure. He’s only really played from FF in the seniors. He ahs played as a lead, mark, kick player. That might just be how he has been asked to play. I’d like to see a bloke like Rusling play on a wing. You will still need smaller midfielders though to win the ball from the packs, rove the talls and a do all that old fashioned rover stuff that still wins premierships.
Don’t get me wrong I like talls and you definitely need a spine but in this day and age you can’t win a premiership without a very good midfield and we just don’t have one.
Vinnie, I am not complaining about the players we drafted as such. I am complaining about the sum total of our list management that sees us in this position of an inadequate midfield and rucks given the signs have been so obvious for so long.
- Oct 8, 2004
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First, if we were to pick up Chris Bryan and put a developing ruckman on the rookie list, that would be adequate for now, so we don't know what's going to happen on the ruck front.
As for recruiting for the midfield, it simply would have left us in a more dire position in regards to KPs. I was lamenting the fact pre-draft that people are suggesting that our goal to goal line was going to be filled with two 190cm players and a 191cm player in the future. Now there's a shot that we will have 4 players over 194cm playing in our spine, which makes me a lot more confident.
As I said, there's no point building a midfield, and having it come good by the time we have no KPs. Midfielders we draft next year are going to come good at the same time, if not sooner than the KPs we drafted this year.
You contradict yourself. We are doing exactly what Sydney has done. They have very few guns and plenty of "working class" players in their rotations. We have tried to recruit the next Adam Goodes, one type of player we are lacking, (Josh Fraser being the only possible exception).
Whether its the right plan or not I dont know, but I do know your above theory lacks credibility. Man for man, Sydney's midfield is pretty ordinary.
If we were to pick up a reject from a club that has no rucks and committed to Ackland? You are talking about an if, a player not wanted by the worst club in the comp, a bloke who is shortish for a ruckman and a bloke some have said can’t actually ruck all that well and then using that and another if re the rookie draft to justify our failings. The reality is we might look at this bloke because we are so desperate which is entirely due to our own ineptitude. That said, what on Earth makes you think we would take a ruckman? As I keep saying, IMO our ruck deficiency is philosophically based. That is why I had no confidence at all that we would take a ruckman in the draft.
I think you are letting your love of the club cloud your objectivity.
There is no point at all in not having a midfield. As I said though, my issue is the lack of balance in out list and that is the product of successive drafts and trade weeks.
We may or may not be attempting what they have done. If we are we are doing it with players yet to be migrated into the midfield and NO RUCKMAN. The NO RUCKMAN bit all alone rules out a premiership on a Sydney model. They are extremely reliant on a quality ruckman and that is why they wanted Everit. We also don’t have Paul Roos who has developed an innovative game plan suited to his players and it appears the sort of bond that carries a team further than their combined talents. . Even so, I can’t help but think their house of cards could fall down with a few injuries but that is debatable.
You can call their midfield ordinary but they cover all bases and they stop WCE better than anyone.
OK I give up. I am swimming upstream here. Somehow Collingwood are infallible yet we don’t win premierships. Fraser is a quality ruckman, O’Bree is a quality midfielder, MM is a great coach with the tactical nouse of Steven Hawkins and we have pace and skill to burn. How we were found wanting far more often than not when tested last year on the back of two bottom 4 finishes after failing in two grand finals and doing nothing about why we failed remains a mystery. I’ll see you all at the AGM to clap the rise from 15th to 7th. If anyone wants me to buy them a beer to toast our success I’ll be the one crying at the bar. Come and cheer me up with some our stories of wonder at our impressive list.
Hine has said that if one of Brown or Reid hadn't been available at #8 and #10 we would have taken Hampson -- the young Qld ruckman. He also intimated that we just didn't think any of the remaining ruckmen were good enough to justify using our later picks on them.
Don't think anyone's claiming infallibility, Mark. But we only have a finite number of draft picks. It simply wasn't going to be possible to address all our deficiencies in one draft. Not to mention the fact that there's always the 'best available' versus 'best fit' argument, which from the outside looking in, and without intimate knowledge of the kids on offer, none of us are equipped to judge.
Now, I've been a member of GARRAF (Get A Real Ruckman Action Faction) for nearly a decade now, but I'm also a member of the draft-best-available school of thought. It seems, judging from Hine's comments, that we just didn't rate a ruckman best available -- though Hampson was around the mark. (This is not to excuse for our inaction in previous years, but that's what our thinking was in this draft.)
I'll be honest, given Hine's statements , I'm a little surprised they didn't 'reach' just a tiny bit and take Hampson anyway. I guess Brown and Reid were, in their minds, simply too good to pass up. If that's the case, I can't really criticise that thinking.
We were always gonna walk away from this draft with some deficiencies (at least partially) unaddressed. In Reid, Brown, and Dawes -- if we've chosen well -- we've settled our KP stocks for the next decade. Reid is very bottom age and Dawes has a knee. They'll take time. In the interim we can recruit mids -- with any luck they'll all come through at the same time, maximising our window of opportunity.
- Oct 5, 2004
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Well said. It's a good plan. Let's hope it happens.
Not unhappy with Reid and Brown, but at pick 28 choosing a third tall who has had a knee reconstruction over a ruckman or a mid is a massive risk, and a luxury I'm not sure we can afford to have.
Exactly and moreso when he could have been picked up at 63
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Have just watched the U18 highlight videos...
Would compare the players to the following AFL players at that level:
Ben Reid: Reminded me of Josh Fraser in the way he moved, however seemed to be quicker/less of a lumberer and had better stickies when going for a mark. Will be interesting to see how his skills compare. We might now have two 'Worlds tallest half forward flanker's !
Nathan Brown: Big Call but has a bit of Matthew Pavlich about him. His quickness and power stands out and I reckon he could play anywhere for us. Very solid mark and also looked very clever around goal - like Pav is. Probably won't have the aerobic capacity of Pav though.
Chris Dawes: Just a big kid who seemed to attack his marks and enjoys kicking a goal. Found it hard to pinpoint him, will refrain from using a Jonathan Brown comparison after the Billy Morrison schmozzle! Perhaps a more potent Brad Miller type (with a bung knee).
Brad ********: Reminded me of Travis Johnstone in the way he pinpoints his targets, but on top of this he also has tremendous burn off speed. If he could get the ball as much as TJ and fills out a bit we might have a player.
Tyson Goldsack: Looks like a scrapper in a tall man's body, perhaps a Tyson Stenglein type. Can take a grab because of his extra height but also seems to cover the ground like a quick cat and has nice skills. Being older age in U18 he seemed to have more desperation than some of the other boys.
Once again, the above is only based on my very limited viewing of each player and who they remind me of, not expect them to be as good as. (although it would be nice)
Would compare the players to the following AFL players at that level:
Ben Reid: Reminded me of Josh Fraser in the way he moved, however seemed to be quicker/less of a lumberer and had better stickies when going for a mark. Will be interesting to see how his skills compare. We might now have two 'Worlds tallest half forward flanker's !
Nathan Brown: Big Call but has a bit of Matthew Pavlich about him. His quickness and power stands out and I reckon he could play anywhere for us. Very solid mark and also looked very clever around goal - like Pav is. Probably won't have the aerobic capacity of Pav though.
Chris Dawes: Just a big kid who seemed to attack his marks and enjoys kicking a goal. Found it hard to pinpoint him, will refrain from using a Jonathan Brown comparison after the Billy Morrison schmozzle! Perhaps a more potent Brad Miller type (with a bung knee).
Brad ********: Reminded me of Travis Johnstone in the way he pinpoints his targets, but on top of this he also has tremendous burn off speed. If he could get the ball as much as TJ and fills out a bit we might have a player.
Tyson Goldsack: Looks like a scrapper in a tall man's body, perhaps a Tyson Stenglein type. Can take a grab because of his extra height but also seems to cover the ground like a quick cat and has nice skills. Being older age in U18 he seemed to have more desperation than some of the other boys.
Once again, the above is only based on my very limited viewing of each player and who they remind me of, not expect them to be as good as. (although it would be nice)
The Royal Sampler
Floreat Pica, Bitch!
I like all the players we picked up, but think that we could have picked Dawes up with a later pick, and used 28 on a better midfield prospect.
The rest has been said already.
The rest has been said already.
Jabso
Brownlow Medallist
I've seen all the highlights and so what I've seen and read. So here is my stab at the "style" of player they are, NOT the quality.
Reid - L.Franklin
N.Brown - S.Wakelin and can play forward (well Wakelin has played forward in his early days)
Dawes - J.Brown. Looks built like him and moves like him. NOTE TO ONLINE STALKERS/SOCIOPATHS I DID NOT SAY HE IS THE NEXT J.BROWN.
D*ck - A much smaller less physical Byron Pickett. Probably a mix between Pickett and Davis. In that he is Pickett without the size and agression (still good defensively) but has the party tricks of Leon Davis.
Goldsack - Reminds me a bit of Goddard. Not Goddard the midfielder pre-AFL days but Goddard the utility.
Reid - L.Franklin
N.Brown - S.Wakelin and can play forward (well Wakelin has played forward in his early days)
Dawes - J.Brown. Looks built like him and moves like him. NOTE TO ONLINE STALKERS/SOCIOPATHS I DID NOT SAY HE IS THE NEXT J.BROWN.
D*ck - A much smaller less physical Byron Pickett. Probably a mix between Pickett and Davis. In that he is Pickett without the size and agression (still good defensively) but has the party tricks of Leon Davis.
Goldsack - Reminds me a bit of Goddard. Not Goddard the midfielder pre-AFL days but Goddard the utility.
You dont know he would of lasted that long.
don't let the truth get in the way of a good bagging.