Who Is More Valuable ?????

[Captain Sensible]

One of my mates said something interesting at the footy. Well more interesting than the game anyway

We were talking about the Wallace controversy and he was asking how a situation like that comes about. "The coach is the No. 1 employee of the club. He should be payed first and failure to pay him is of critical importance. Especially this coach-He is the best."

No argument there from me.

Then he went on to say that Terry is more important to the club than Chris Grant.

What do you guys think? Is Wallace more important than Grant? I don't know about that. Wallace is very important, but more important than Grant? Hmmmmm...

 

[Top Dog]

As Chicago1 say Granty saved our club and i agree and he still is the most important person at the club.

 

[Westy Boy]

Wallace by an absolute street.

Suppose Terry left at the end of 97, and we got Tim Watson for 98. Where do you think we would be? The Malcolm Blight stuff over the past couple of days has proven just how important stability, and solid, long term coaches are. They build clubs. Players don't.

Wallace has single-handedly instilled confidence, self belief and passion into what many regarded as an inferior list and has kept us up there (finals) for 5 years – he, along with Smorgon, have revolutionised the Western Bulldogs, giving them a broad appeal, and a winning culture - and the amazing thing is that he would have done that with almost any list at his disposal -- Chris Grant cannot provide the WHOLE CLUB with those qualities.

Terry is also a a seller. Although not on the same level as Grant in terms or marketing and merchandise, he is the public voice and face. His logic, common sense and intelligence in general, provide the club with a very professional look and feel, and with his endearing approach towards the media, and being such an innovator in the game as a whole, has been instrumental in improving corporate sponsorship, and the image we portray. Once again, Chris Grant, although a champion player and person, cannot provide these.

TERRY WALLACE is THE man. The most important man at this club. If we lose him, we’re f*cked – that idiot on 3AW the other night, saying that we should let him go for Brian Royal, does not have a brain. Coaches are what teams (and in many cases clubs) are built on. Malthouse with the Eagles, Pagan with North, Sheedy with Essendon. Much like clubs who have these coaches at the helm, teams under Terry Wallace will never sit in the lower half of the comp for a long period of time, and when discussing brilliant, long term coaches, talent at their disposal is irrelevant . We should thank our lucky stars that we've been able to snare Wallace.

Consider this scenario which Essendon would have faced in 80-83 – who is more important to the club, the star player (help me out here guys –who was Essendon’s equivalent to Chris Grant just before their premiership in 84? Tim Watson, Madden), or Kevin Sheedy? At the time, the star (franchise) player who was winning games off his own boot, and attracting supporters would have been perceived to be more important – Look at the situation now. The players have faded in history, whereas Kevin Sheedy has survived, and, from a precarious position in 1980, has gone on to build the Essendon Football club, it’s brand, character and standing within the competition. A very smart man, a very successful man, a thinker, a do-er. Sound familiar? It should – IMO, we’ve got the new millennium’s version in Terry Wallace. Players come and go…. Chris Grant, in 5 years, will retire .... but if we build a stable, well run club where Terry has a chance to implement his own strategies and theories, Wallace will be there for the next 20 years …. and there will be premierships....

 

[Captain Sensible]

Well said Westy. Couldn't agree more. Just one thing try not to listen to 3AW for too long at one time. All those whacko right-wing views can be bad for your mental health.

BTW-Hows the non smoking going?

 

[Top Dog]

After Westy Boys convincing post i think ill change mine from Granty to wally

 

[bulldogs1]

I'll vote for Terry as well, but (sitting on the fence) adding a rider by saying that the club is stuffed without either of them. Plough for all the reasons cited above. Chris because he is the franchise player for the Dogs, like Lloyd is to Essendon.

Some may say that Hird is the franchise player there, but the younger kids (especially women and young girls) really identify with Lloyd. Chris is that player for us. Drags 'em through the turnstiles, and is an important factor when supporters are thinking of renewing their memberships.

I can't think of how the club would survive if either defected, as opposed to retired or fell out. I take my vote back; I can't choose.

 

[sigscotty]

If the question is who could we least afford to lose tomorrow, my choice is Wallace.
If the question is who has been more important over the period they have been associated with the club it is a little different As has been pointed out champion players come and go but champion coaches can endure and provide longer term success.

However, at the end of 1996 we had something like 14 players out of contract. As i recall it, almost every one of them waited to see if Chris would go to Port Power before signing up. Had Grant gone to SA it is likely to have triggered many of the others to leave as well, and there would have been a real danger of becoming something like Fitzroy were in the end, as no player would have been happy to join the club. This means probably no Huddo, and maybe no Minton-Connell.

Wallace on the other hand has been responsible for creating the longest finals run the club has ever seen. (By double and still going). So i simply can't split them under this criteria. (i know it is a bit different to how everyone else has looked at the question, but i thought it was interesting)

If the club is around in a couple of decades, we will look at the names of Wallace and Grant along with Gordon Chatfield Smorgon and a few others that were the main figures in ensuring the club had a future.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Who is Gordon Chatfield Smorgon? I have never heard of him. What possie does he play? Is he injured at the moment?

 

[Captain Sensible]

I shouldnt really be bumping posts but...

I just thought it was to interesting to let go.

What do we think now?

 

[Mo7]

I think you have lost the plot. Terry Wallace has GONE!! Whether he is important now is irrelevant. What he has done for the club in the PAST was sensational, but he chooses to no longer be a part of the club. Chris Grant is still an important member of the Western Bulldogs. His re-signing several years ago saved the club at the time.

Let's move on.........

 

[SCRAY72]

Originally posted by Mo7
I think you have lost the plot. Terry Wallace has GONE!! Whether he is important now is irrelevant. What he has done for the club in the PAST was sensational, but he chooses to no longer be a part of the club. Chris Grant is still an important member of the Western Bulldogs. His re-signing several years ago saved the club at the time.

Let's move on.........

Agree Mo
Vale Terry Wallace. He is off to greener pastures.
Granty to Centre Half Back to be our General for the next 3 years.

 

[stefoid]

I reckon Wallace did the right thing in quitting the club, regardle$$ of his real motives.

Wallace has not coached a team into a grand final, and in fact his finals record is pretty dismal.

Personally I dont believe his style of footy is well-suited to finals, so good on him for moving on.

 

[Curly5]

Originally posted by stefoid
I reckon Wallace did the right thing in quitting the club, regardle$$ of his real motives.

Wallace has not coached a team into a grand final, and in fact his finals record is pretty dismal.

Personally I dont believe his style of footy is well-suited to finals, so good on him for moving on.

Will be interesting to see if he gets a JOB for 2003.

 

[Iso]

Local - Interesting to look back on our attitudes to Wallet [who$e idea wa$ it to call him that hee hee]. I think it would have been worse to lose Granty at the time as Sig and others said but TW did a good job in getting the team into the finals and getting the best out of the players.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Chris Grant, Brad Johnson, Nathan Brown, Luke Darcy, Scott West and maybe even Rohan Smith are all more important than Wallace was. They had just as much in turning us around as Wallace did

The players kick the goals, not the coach

 

[LondonBulldog]

David Smorgan is number one at the bulldogs and will be as long as he remains president. As Wallace has showed the rest are just employees like any other business. Harsh but reality. When the going got tough, Wallace got going.

Wallace did his job while he was there but that is what he was paid to do. Someone else will come along and do the same.

We was more than servicable but not fantastic either. You could agrue all day about who is the best coach yet action speak louder than words. Some will say Daniher has done better making a grand final with a team of similiar talent?

Westy Boy, let Wallace go, fresh idea's could be good.

 

[Fansquad]

Originally posted by Westy Boy
Wallace by an absolute street.

Suppose Terry left at the end of 97, and we got Tim Watson for 98. Where do you think we would be? The Malcolm Blight stuff over the past couple of days has proven just how important stability, and solid, long term coaches are. They build clubs. Players don't.

If and if and what if. Get real mate. IF Your Grandmother had balls she would be your grandfather. Tim Watson had no experience as a coach, the prospective coaches that we are looking at, Mark Harvey, Brian Royal, Rhode etc..All have experience.

Originally posted by Westy Boy


Wallace has single-handedly instilled confidence, self belief and passion into what many regarded as an inferior list and has kept us up there (finals) for 5 years –

It was 4 years in the finals, not 5.

Originally posted by Westy Boy

teams under Terry Wallace will never sit in the lower half of the comp for a long period of time,

Yes that is true as he leaves before it can happen.

Originally posted by Westy Boy

The players have faded in history, whereas Kevin Sheedy has survived, and, from a precarious position in 1980, has gone on to build the Essendon Football club, it’s brand, character and standing within the competition. A very smart man, a very successful man, a thinker, a do-er. Sound familiar? It should – IMO, we’ve got the new millennium’s version in Terry Wallace.

Never have i read such unmitigated crap. You want to compare Wallace to Sheedy? lets do this

P= Premierships
GF = Grand Finals
F = Finals
% = Winning Percentage

First 6 years:

Sheedy (81-86) 2P 3GF 12F 71.5%
Wallace (97-02) 0P 0GF 7F 55.2%


And don't use the bullcrap line that wallace inherited a crap team....he started with some very good players....Grant, Darcy, Wynd, Libba, West, Johnson, Smith, Dimma and Croft. Yes it probably isn't a premiership team, but it is close. Wallace is no where near Sheedy at the moment. And lets not forget that Sheedy has coached 4 grand finals since then, resulting in another 2 premierships.

Originally posted by Westy Boy

Players come and go…. Chris Grant, in 5 years, will retire .... but if we build a stable, well run club where Terry has a chance to implement his own strategies and theories, Wallace will be there for the next 20 years …. and there will be premierships....

I agree that the coach is important than any one player but the majority of your post has been way off track.

 

[Chops]

Wake up Fansquad, th is thread is over a year old! Why didn't you say something about what Westy said in this thread a year ago??

His views may have changed and so may have yours!

 

[Fansquad]

Originally posted by Chops
Wake up Fansquad is thread is over a year old! Why didn't you say something about what Westy in this thread a year ago??

His views may have changed and so may have yours!

Just shows how wrong westy's views have been. I have always been against Wallace, everyone in this forum knows that.

I assume that Westy's view on Wallace's ability to coach hasn't changed. He recons he is the 21st century kevin Sheedy...wallace's record is nothing to kevins.

 

[Westy_Boy]

Jeezus, haven't posted here for a week and I'm getting slaughtered - Thanks for that, Local!

Circumstances have changed, and the goalposts have moved a bit since then (to Antartica), so yeah, "worst calls you've ever made" thread, here I come.

But ignoring Wallace, I still reckon that a long term gun coach is more important than a gun player - Pagan's influence on the Roos this year minus Carey could be seen as a case in point.

 

[Westy_Boy]

Originally posted by Fansquad

I assume that Westy's view on Wallace's ability to coach hasn't changed. He recons he is the 21st century kevin Sheedy...wallace's record is nothing to kevins.

In defence of the long-winded load of rubbish I posted earlier in the thread, it was written mid way through 2001, a time when we still hadn't missed a finals campaign, and were sitting in the top half of the table. Wallace's winning percentage in completed seasons at that stage was 62%, Sheedy's 65%.

Since the day I posted that, Wallace’s record has been about 33%, with the gap between him and Sheedy widening to about the width of the Grand Canyon. So yep, along with some other real doozies in that post, it was a stupid comparison to make.

i.e. I was wrong. You win. Now plss off.

 

[Chops]

Originally posted by Fansquad


Just shows how wrong westy's views have been. I have always been against Wallace, everyone in this forum knows that.

I assume that Westy's view on Wallace's ability to coach hasn't changed. He recons he is the 21st century kevin Sheedy...wallace's record is nothing to kevins.

Its great to know you have always been against Wallace! The club will have to honour you.

Sounds like, to prove your point you wanted the Bulldogs to fail! What kind of Bulldogs supporter are you?

 

[Captain Sensible]

Originally posted by Fansquad


Just shows how wrong westy's views have been. I have always been against Wallace, everyone in this forum knows that.

.

Yeah we know. You keep on telling us. You wont stop telling us.




Maybe we should erect a statue of you somewhere with a "I never liked Terry Wallace" plaque at the bottom so other people will know as well.

 

[dancingdoggie17]

TERRY WHO???

ps. Brian Royal seemed to think that Neale Daniher is a better coach than this "terry" guy everyone is talking about!

 

[Fansquad]

Originally posted by Westy_Boy
Jeezus, haven't posted here for a week and I'm getting slaughtered - Thanks for that, Local!

Circumstances have changed, and the goalposts have moved a bit since then (to Antartica), so yeah, "worst calls you've ever made" thread, here I come.

But ignoring Wallace, I still reckon that a long term gun coach is more important than a gun player - Pagan's influence on the Roos this year minus Carey could be seen as a case in point.

I actually didn't realise that your post was over a year old. I probably wouldn't have responded to it had i known. I agree with you that a gun coach is better than a gun player. Because gun coaches can breed many gun players..