List Mgmt. Who is playing for their careers? 2020 edition.

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Tom14

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Oct 13, 2015
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Surprised Allison survived the cut, personally.

Also dont think Cox will make it in the long run but happy for him to prove us all wrong.
Allison has a contract and we already moved him to the rookie list last year. Can't really cut him.

I'm still optimistic on Cox. On completely zero evidence though!
 

Berrygood

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We have shown a propensity to move contracted players onto the Rookie list in recent years.
Yeah, the rookie list has become more of a last chance list these days. If you have been dropped to there you pretty much have a year, 2 at the outside, to prove you can make it. Not a bad way to use it i guess. A wake up call for those dropped back and a real encouragement for those drafted directly on to it. Although i see corey lyons relegation as an exception to the rule. Just hasnt had the opportunity over the last 2yrs to get a run. I think he has something to offer. Wont be a star but can be as reliable and consistent as his brother. More than any player i want to see him get a crack next year and i mean 3 games in a row at least. He deserves it, and he deserves to know within himself if he can cut it or not.
 

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Dlions

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Yeah, the rookie list has become more of a last chance list these days. If you have been dropped to there you pretty much have a year, 2 at the outside, to prove you can make it. Not a bad way to use it i guess. A wake up call for those dropped back and a real encouragement for those drafted directly on to it. Although i see corey lyons relegation as an exception to the rule. Just hasnt had the opportunity over the last 2yrs to get a run. I think he has something to offer. Wont be a star but can be as reliable and consistent as his brother. More than any player i want to see him get a crack next year and i mean 3 games in a row at least. He deserves it, and he deserves to know within himself if he can cut it or not.
Yeah I’m more on the Skinner train than Lyons in that respect.
But they both deserve a chance.
But I think it will only be injury or really bad form that will get them games.
 

PattyKwasagun

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I'd be very surprised if Corey Lyons makes it at senior level, too many senior guys in front of him as well as promising youngsters in all likely hood going past him.
I think that's probably fair, and could probably be said about a few on the list - Lyons, Matho, Cox come to mind. Certainly a bunch who are up against it with the depth of quality on the list now.
 

WhiteLionFeva

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Conole has mentioned "high level traits" when describing certain players and he did so when asked about Coleman pre-draft. I'm not sure C Lyons or Matho have them. Skinner maybe. Cox definitely does but what he needs to show, in my view, is more intensity.
 

Dlions

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Conole has mentioned "high level traits" when describing certain players and he did so when asked about Coleman pre-draft. I'm not sure C Lyons or Matho have them. Skinner maybe. Cox definitely does but what he needs to show, in my view, is more intensity.
Needs a bit of Kysaiah Pickett about him?
 

dlanod

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I think the best vote in favour of C Lyons (and Skinner) is that we sought to kept him on the list (even if it's the rookie list) when we could've had a very clear option of delisting him. It's obviously not as big a vote as giving him a new contract, but it's something.
 

scoman

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Conole has mentioned "high level traits" when describing certain players and he did so when asked about Coleman pre-draft. I'm not sure C Lyons or Matho have them. Skinner maybe. Cox definitely does but what he needs to show, in my view, is more intensity.
The worry for me with Cox is he doesn't appear to have much 'time' when he gets the ball at AFL level. Gets run down, takes too long to find an option, seems to go at half pace. That's alarming for a player in his position.
 

marooned

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The worry for me with Cox is he doesn't appear to have much 'time' when he gets the ball at AFL level. Gets run down, takes too long to find an option, seems to go at half pace. That's alarming for a player in his position.
That’s the jump from Neafl to AFL.With an extended run if the AFL I think he would adjust to the pace.
 

T Rick

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Jeez it must be tough for Jacob Allison - he really does look like he is a "dead man walking" in a ruthless industry. It would be hard to imagine him turning it around from here but who knows?
 

Johnny Bananas

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Jeez it must be tough for Jacob Allison - he really does look like he is a "dead man walking" in a ruthless industry. It would be hard to imagine him turning it around from here but who knows?
He still has time to run on his contract, which has bought him more opportunity than comparable situations in other sports. In a league like the NBA he would simply be bought out and shown the door, or possibly traded halfway across the country without his consent as he has a contract due to expire soon. Now that's tough.
 

Jason mp

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Bump > Update.

Some of these players will be getting a little nervous, with no proper reserves footy to press their claims for extension and with the senior team going well little chance for a go at senior level.

OOC 2020
Cedric Cox
Jacob Allison (R)
Toby Wooller
Stefan Martin
Grant Birchall
Mitchell Hinge
Ryan Lester
Allen Christensen
Sam Skinner (R)
Corey Lyons (R)
Matt Eagles (R)

Will get extension- Ryan Lester.

Gone- Jacob Allison, Corey Lyons, Matty Eagles.

Possible retirement depending on injuries- Stef Martin, Grant Birchall.

The other 5 anything could happen, Allen Christensen may retire if he can't crack the seniors on a regular basis, if it was up to me I would like to keep the other 4 ie. Cedric Cox, Toby Wooller, Mitchell Hinge and Sam Skinner. The other complication is the probable reduction in list sizes.
 

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trikster

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Bump > Update.

Some of these players will be getting a little nervous, with no proper reserves footy to press their claims for extension and with the senior team going well little chance for a go at senior level.

OOC 2020
Cedric Cox
Jacob Allison (R)
Toby Wooller
Stefan Martin
Grant Birchall
Mitchell Hinge
Ryan Lester
Allen Christensen
Sam Skinner (R)
Corey Lyons (R)
Matt Eagles (R)

Will get extension- Ryan Lester.

Gone- Jacob Allison, Corey Lyons, Matty Eagles.

Possible retirement depending on injuries- Stef Martin, Grant Birchall.

The other 5 anything could happen, Allen Christensen may retire if he can't crack the seniors on a regular basis, if it was up to me I would like to keep the other 4 ie. Cedric Cox, Toby Wooller, Mitchell Hinge and Sam Skinner. The other complication is the probable reduction in list sizes.
The unknown list sizes must be making list manager jobs impossible to make any plans other than the obvious. Also any possible corresponding changes to the draft that may go with it (i.e. reduced number of mandatory picks for example). How does it work if you have to drop 8 players off your list but only have 2 out of contract, what are the salary cap impacts and will there be exemptions (and under which circumstances). Just another mess in the COVID19 cluster :)

Personally I'd add Hinge to your gone list and possibly Bundy just because of his age compared to Cox/Wooller.
 

Jason mp

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The unknown list sizes must be making list manager jobs impossible to make any plans other than the obvious. Also any possible corresponding changes to the draft that may go with it (i.e. reduced number of mandatory picks for example). How does it work if you have to drop 8 players off your list but only have 2 out of contract, what are the salary cap impacts and will there be exemptions (and under which circumstances). Just another mess in the COVID19 cluster :)

Personally I'd add Hinge to your gone list and possibly Bundy just because of his age compared to Cox/Wooller.
Yer the list reduction would be a pain in the arse for list managers, FWIW list sizes are likely to be reduced gradually over 2/3 seasons so only 2 or 3 player reduction per season. Player contracts??? Wow, the players would have to show a lot of goodwill if they were willing forego their legal rights... or have the AFL got provisions in place where they can null and void contracts.
 

trikster

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Yer the list reduction would be a pain in the arse for list managers, FWIW list sizes are likely to be reduced gradually over 2/3 seasons so only 2 or 3 player reduction per season. Player contracts??? Wow, the players would have to show a lot of goodwill if they were willing forego their legal rights... or have the AFL got provisions in place where they can null and void contracts.
I doubt the AFL can. If players retire before the end of their contract not due to injury then the club takes a cap hit, maybe they will have to make some exception for this season where the player gets paid but it doesn't count against the cap like it usually would. But you could then see clubs salary dumping a massively overpaid player like the NBA amnesty days.
 

briztoon

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I doubt the AFL can. If players retire before the end of their contract not due to injury then the club takes a cap hit, maybe they will have to make some exception for this season where the player gets paid but it doesn't count against the cap like it usually would. But you could then see clubs salary dumping a massively overpaid player like the NBA amnesty days.
The AFL is in save as much money as possible mode.

They aren’t going to sanction clubs paying out contracted players, in or out of the tpp. Not unless that club is paying it from their own pockets, such as a West Coast, or Richmond, etc.

And in our case, the AFL fund our pockets.
 

trikster

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The AFL is in save as much money as possible mode.

They aren’t going to sanction clubs paying out contracted players, in or out of the tpp. Not unless that club is paying it from their own pockets, such as a West Coast, or Richmond, etc.

And in our case, the AFL fund our pockets.
It's not about sanctioning clubs. If they want to reduce lists they have to allow clubs to do it. Clubs aren't allowed to pay outside of TPP (which is why we have a cap), and they wouldn't be able to afford to pay within TPP with reduced caps. So something has to give.
 

Gadzorks

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I’m a bit unsure about list size reduction. Is it a direct consequence of the covid issue, or is Covid just a convenient excuse for something previously desired?
 

briztoon

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It's not about sanctioning clubs. If they want to reduce lists they have to allow clubs to do it. Clubs aren't allowed to pay outside of TPP (which is why we have a cap), and they wouldn't be able to afford to pay within TPP with reduced caps. So something has to give.
The AFL will look at our list and say, you have 33 senior listed players contracted for next season. That’s your playing list, plus two draftees for next year.

We can’t re-sign or trade in any players, unless we trade out a player/s.

Rookie contracts are payed out of the soft cap, so the AFL will tell us to continue paying them out of the soft cap for next season, at the expense of keeping an off field assistant or position.

They might allow us to re-sign a delisted player if a player has a season ending injury.

There’s only two clubs in such a predicament. Us and Gold Coast. Gold Coast have their concessions and expanded list, which the AFL probably winds back somewhat.
 

briztoon

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I’m a bit unsure about list size reduction. Is it a direct consequence of the covid issue, or is Covid just a convenient excuse for something previously desired?
Direct consequence of COVID-19. Before this year, Gil has always spoken about giving as many players a chance at an AFL career.

Now the AFL faces paying off a debt, which Gil has said he wants to do as fast as possible, combined with reduced tv rights deals and potentially reduced sponsorship revenue.

Early in the shut down, the AFL did research on how many/few players teams need to complete a season.

They found, for most teams, 31 or 32 players account for 95% of games played. And most teams can play a full season with 35 players.

All you have to do is look at how few players we played last season. And consider we could have gotten away with playing fewer players.
 

Gadzorks

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Direct consequence of COVID-19. Before this year, Gil has always spoken about giving as many players a chance at an AFL career.

Now the AFL faces paying off a debt, which Gil has said he wants to do as fast as possible, combined with reduced tv rights deals and potentially reduced sponsorship revenue.

Early in the shut down, the AFL did research on how many/few players teams need to complete a season.

They found, for most teams, 31 or 32 players account for 95% of games played. And most teams can play a full season with 35 players.

All you have to do is look at how few players we played last season. And consider we could have gotten away with playing fewer players.
Thanks
 

Johnny Bananas

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I'm going to be sad for Corey Lyons when he gets the chop at the end of this season. Consistently a top performer in the NEAFL and tries his guts out. But there's no way he's breaking into the team. Fagan has brought in so many midfielders he trusts more. Besides the usual suspects, I can't see Corey getting a game over CEY, or even Dev Robertson or Ely Smith.
 

martinson

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I'm going to be sad for Corey Lyons when he gets the chop at the end of this season. Consistently a top performer in the NEAFL and tries his guts out. But there's no way he's breaking into the team. Fagan has brought in so many midfielders he trusts more. Besides the usual suspects, I can't see Corey getting a game over CEY, or even Dev Robertson or Ely Smith.
Yeah . He's a real goer ,I would've loved to have seen him get a game at some point but there's now 3 or 4 guys who weren't there before that he has to leapfrog over.

Ely and Dev are both bigger bodied better LT prospects you'd have to say.
 

briztoon

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I'm going to be sad for Corey Lyons when he gets the chop at the end of this season. Consistently a top performer in the NEAFL and tries his guts out. But there's no way he's breaking into the team. Fagan has brought in so many midfielders he trusts more. Besides the usual suspects, I can't see Corey getting a game over CEY, or even Dev Robertson or Ely Smith.
As I mentioned before, he was always a long shot to make it.

Drafted at a time when we had genuinely questionable depth in the midfield. So was worth a punt. But we kept drafting higher rated mids every subsequent draft. And trading in more.
 

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