Who is the best coach in the league at the moment?

[The Cryptkeeper]

Thanks, next time someone hangs s**t on us i'll direct them to this..

Mate, I thought you guys were pretty impressive on the weekend. There are some good kids there and you have established, high end talent in key spots. I was surprised at the capitulation at the end of last season.

The only real thing I have against Port is the NTUA nonsense...but that is another matter entirely.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Two straight sets exits is a valid point regarding that which is why I brought it up

Is it though? Doesnt it just point to a team finishing higher than they should? Which to me is good coaching.

Im not saying you are wrong and im right but your point is far from solid.

Using last year as an example, the fact we finished 4th was widely considered over achieving and the ss exit proved that. To get the 2018 Hawks into 4th spot was a feather in his cap, not a black mark.



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Is it though? Doesnt it just point to a team finishing higher than they should? Which to me is good coaching.

Im not saying you are wrong and im right but your point is far from solid.

Using last year as an example, the fact we finished 4th was widely considered over achieving and the ss exit proved that. To get the 2018 Hawks into 4th spot was a feather in his cap, not a black mark.



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

But, but, but he has a losing record against another coach in the league.

Cannot be the best coach in the AFL based on that.

 

[Black Stripe]

The guy has 4 flags and is considered among the greatest of all time, and yet a slightly inferior record against another single coach overrides this? Is this seriously one of your arguments? You know nothing about football and are the worst debater in the history of the internet. Either that or you are just another jealous troll.

But, but, but he has a losing record against another coach in the league.

Cannot be the best coach in the AFL based on that.

Clarkson's record against Chris Scott is 7 wins 12 losses.

That's not slightly inferior, it's significantly inferior.

Chris Scott also has the best win percentage out of any coach in the league.

Clarkson is a great coach I'm not denying that, I'm merely pointing out that Clarkson being the current best coach in the league may not be as clear cut as what some in this thread have been saying.

Yes Clarkson has 4 flags but I've already pointed out the fact Kevin Sheedy has 4 flags too, yet when Sheedy was our coach people weren't saying Sheedy was the clear cut best coach in the league.

 

[footy75]

Clarkson, Fagan, Simpson, Chris Scott.

But if you're throwing the cheque book at someone you're throwing it at Alistair Clarkson, no doubt.

 

[threesixpio]

1. Clarko
2. Sam Mitchell

 

[KermitJagger]

Clarkson's record against Chris Scott is 7 wins 12 losses.

That's not slightly inferior, it's significantly inferior.

Chris Scott also has the best win percentage out of any coach in the league.

Clarkson is a great coach I'm not denying that, I'm merely pointing out that Clarkson being the current best coach in the league may not be as clear cut as what some in this thread have been saying.

Yes Clarkson has 4 flags but I've already pointed out the fact Kevin Sheedy has 4 flags too, yet when Sheedy was our coach people weren't saying Sheedy was the clear cut best coach in the league.

Again, losing record against a coach who took over an established club at their peak who essentially coached themselves for the first 3 years of his tenure.

 

[HairyO]

The post you quoted was me responding to someone asking how could anyone go past Clarkson as the best coach.

Two straight sets exits is a valid point regarding that which is why I brought it up.

Another argument that could be made to suggest Clarkson isn't the best coach is his negative head to head record against Chris Scott.

Hawthorn were not expected to make the finals, yet managed to come 4th at the end of the home and away season.

But that also means nothing, correct?

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Clarkson's record against Chris Scott is 7 wins 12 losses.

That's not slightly inferior, it's significantly inferior.

Chris Scott also has the best win percentage out of any coach in the league.

Clarkson is a great coach I'm not denying that, I'm merely pointing out that Clarkson being the current best coach in the league may not be as clear cut as what some in this thread have been saying.

Yes Clarkson has 4 flags but I've already pointed out the fact Kevin Sheedy has 4 flags too, yet when Sheedy was our coach people weren't saying Sheedy was the clear cut best coach in the league.

Your argument is rubbish.

Novak Djokovic has never taken a set of Nick Kyrgios. By your logic that makes Kyrgios a greater player.

Chris Scott has a losing record against both John Longmire and Nathan Buckley. Yet Clarkson has a 10-1 lead over Buckley and 13-6 lead over Longmire. Clarkson has 4 flags. Scott, Longmire and Buckley have 2 flags between them. And Clarkson has his 4 flags at approximately a flag every 3.5 years. Sheedy was winning a flag with half the regularity in a VIC based competition with very few equalisation measures. The argument that Clarkson is the best coach in the AFL is about as clear cut as an argument can be. Unless you are either a troll or a moron.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Clarkson, Fagan, Simpson, Chris Scott.

But if you're throwing the cheque book at someone you're throwing it at Alistair Clarkson, no doubt.

For sure. His value would be immense given his record of success.

He was on Talking Footy last night and suggested this could be his last contract with the Hawks.

Could see a big 4 club desperate for success throwing everything at him if he was available.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Clarkson's record against Chris Scott is 7 wins 12 losses.

That's not slightly inferior, it's significantly inferior.

Chris Scott also has the best win percentage out of any coach in the league.

Clarkson is a great coach I'm not denying that, I'm merely pointing out that Clarkson being the current best coach in the league may not be as clear cut as what some in this thread have been saying.

Yes Clarkson has 4 flags but I've already pointed out the fact Kevin Sheedy has 4 flags too, yet when Sheedy was our coach people weren't saying Sheedy was the clear cut best coach in the league.

No worries, this place would suck if there were no opposing opinions, but how about you offer up a name? Do you think Scott is the best current coach?

You seem to enjoy playing devil's advocate and suggesting Clarko may not be the best current coach but why don't you actually put a name forward? It would give your point a lot more weight, right now it just comes across as a bit of a sook which is partly why you are getting sarky responses.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

For sure. His value would be immense given his record of success.

He was on Talking Footy last night and suggested this could be his last contract with the Hawks.

Could see a big 4 club desperate for success throwing everything at him if he was available.

Luckily for Hawks fans the contract is until 2022. But aye, I can think of 2 or 3 clubs who would throw a godfather contract at him, depsite him being likely burnt out and lacking desire after almost 20 years at one club..

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

No worries, this place would suck if there were no opposing opinions, but how about you offer up a name? Do you think Scott is the best current coach?

You seem to enjoy playing devil's advocate and suggesting Clarko may not be the best current coach but why don't you actually put a name forward? It would give your point a lot more weight, right now it just comes across as a bit of a sook which is partly why you are getting sarky responses.

He did though. He put up Chris Scott using the most wafer thin "argument" I have ever seen on here.

And given the number of complete muppets on this site, that is saying something.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Yes Clarkson has 4 flags but I've already pointed out the fact Kevin Sheedy has 4 flags too, yet when Sheedy was our coach people weren't saying Sheedy was the clear cut best coach in the league.

One more thing on Sheedy. The reason why he wasn't regarded as unequivocally the best coach in football for a prolonged period is that he coached at around the same time as Allan Jeans who had won the same number of premierships as a coach but from about 80 less games (even excusing Sheedy's tenure at GWS). Jeans obviously started earlier and Sheedy finished up later but there was a significant enough crossover as to have a reasonable debate but Jeans' coaching 7 straight GF's puts him in front during the time that they both coached. However, Sheedy was certainly the best coach in football in 84-85, not only going back to back but beating arguably the greatest football team ever assembled two years in a row. Jeans' retirement coincided with the rise of Pagan and Malthouse but Sheedy navigated that, winning in 1993 and 2000 but both Pagan and Malthouse won a couple of flags each during that period. That said, in terms of his overall body of work he is one of the all time greats. Sheedy had a losing record against a lot of coaches it must also be said. As did Jeans. As do Pagan, Malthouse, Matthews, Clarkson, Parkin, Kennedy. In fact, I would be very surprised if you can find any coach who has coached more than 5 years at the top level who doesn't have a losing record against several other coaches. And that is what makes your Chris Scott "argument" redundant.

Interestingly Jeans and Sheedy coached against each other 24 times for a 12/12 split. I think it is fair to say that they were the two greatest coaches of that era.

 

[Gavin Excell]

One more thing on Sheedy. The reason why he wasn't regarded as unequivocally the best coach in football for a prolonged period is that he coached at around the same time as Allan Jeans who had won the same number of premierships as a coach but from about 80 less games (even excusing Sheedy's tenure at GWS). Jeans obviously started earlier and Sheedy finished up later but there was a significant enough crossover as to have a reasonable debate but Jeans' coaching 7 straight GF's puts him in front during the time that they both coached. However, Sheedy was certainly the best coach in football in 84-85, not only going back to back but beating arguably the greatest football team ever assembled two years in a row. Jeans' retirement coincided with the rise of Pagan and Malthouse but Sheedy navigated that, winning in 1993 and 2000 but both Pagan and Malthouse won a couple of flags each during that period. That said, in terms of his overall body of work he is one of the all time greats. Sheedy had a losing record against a lot of coaches it must also be said. As did Jeans. As do Pagan, Malthouse, Matthews, Clarkson, Parkin, Kennedy. In fact, I would be very surprised if you can find any coach who has coached more than 5 years at the top level who doesn't have a losing record against several other coaches. And that is what makes your Chris Scott "argument" redundant.

Interestingly Jeans and Sheedy coached against each other 24 times for a 12/12 split. I think it is fair to say that they were the two greatest coaches of that era.

Sheedys last few years probably detracts his legacy but as you say he was a great coach.

Always think those coaches who can get flags with totally different groups as sheedy did with mid 80s, 93 and 2000 teams deserve special credit.

 

[FisherHawk]

For sure. His value would be immense given his record of success.

He was on Talking Footy last night and suggested this could be his last contract with the Hawks.

Could see a big 4 club desperate for success throwing everything at him if he was available.

Let's expand on that. He said "Probably by the end of this contract, if Hawthorn haven’t been able to look like they’re giving themselves a chance to win silverware, then it’s probably time for me to move on."

So he's referring to season end 2022. I would think the Hawks will be looking at silverware then, so he'll probably stay.

 

[Black Stripe]

Your argument is rubbish.

Novak Djokovic has never taken a set of Nick Kyrgios. By your logic that makes Kyrgios a greater player.

Chris Scott has a losing record against both John Longmire and Nathan Buckley. Yet Clarkson has a 10-1 lead over Buckley and 13-6 lead over Longmire. Clarkson has 4 flags. Scott, Longmire and Buckley have 2 flags between them. And Clarkson has his 4 flags at approximately a flag every 3.5 years. Sheedy was winning a flag with half the regularity in a VIC based competition with very few equalisation measures. The argument that Clarkson is the best coach in the AFL is about as clear cut as an argument can be. Unless you are either a troll or a moron.

Chris Scott only has a losing record against 3 coaches, and it's only by 1 loss.

7 wins 8 losses vs John Longmire
5 wins 6 losses vs Nathan Buckley
2 wins 3 losses vs Adam Simpson

He did though. He put up Chris Scott using the most wafer thin "argument" I have ever seen on here.

And given the number of complete muppets on this site, that is saying something.

What about the fact that Chris Scott has the greatest winning percentage out of any coach in history to have coached 150 games or more?

One more thing on Sheedy. The reason why he wasn't regarded as unequivocally the best coach in football for a prolonged period is that he coached at around the same time as Allan Jeans who had won the same number of premierships as a coach but from about 80 less games (even excusing Sheedy's tenure at GWS). Jeans obviously started earlier and Sheedy finished up later but there was a significant enough crossover as to have a reasonable debate but Jeans' coaching 7 straight GF's puts him in front during the time that they both coached. However, Sheedy was certainly the best coach in football in 84-85, not only going back to back but beating arguably the greatest football team ever assembled two years in a row. Jeans' retirement coincided with the rise of Pagan and Malthouse but Sheedy navigated that, winning in 1993 and 2000 but both Pagan and Malthouse won a couple of flags each during that period. That said, in terms of his overall body of work he is one of the all time greats. Sheedy had a losing record against a lot of coaches it must also be said. As did Jeans. As do Pagan, Malthouse, Matthews, Clarkson, Parkin, Kennedy. In fact, I would be very surprised if you can find any coach who has coached more than 5 years at the top level who doesn't have a losing record against several other coaches. And that is what makes your Chris Scott "argument" redundant.

Interestingly Jeans and Sheedy coached against each other 24 times for a 12/12 split. I think it is fair to say that they were the two greatest coaches of that era.

I'm referring to when Sheedy was our coach in 2012 and 2013 and no one suggested he was the best coach in the game.

 

[david addison]

Has to be Beverage. Anybody who hasn't drunk the kool-aid and stands up to Hocking is coach of the year. Too much talk at that coaches meeting. Should have just gone straight for the throat. In fact he should have taken with him the punchy guy from the Tigers Blues game and said 'see that 4 eyed twerp over there? Give him your best.' 'Why should I?' 'Because he's making footy a game of chance instead of chess by creating a bunch of bullshit rules.' 'So?' 'He sees coaches as the enemy and then has the gall to hand out a 'coach of the year' award at the end of each season.' 'I honestly couldn't care less.' 'He's selling the soul of aussie rules to a piece of s**t network.' 'I've got better things to do.' 'He said your wife looks like an isis bride.' 'He said what?' 'He said she's an isis bride. An isis bride.' 'Where is he?'

 

[imperial_oz]

Pointless given everyone will vote for their own (Hence why Hardwick is on par with Clarkson).

It has to be Clarkson - the only alternative might be Fagan.

These 2 can actually change a game around noticeably ans seem to have a gameplan beyond 'give him the ball so he can get it to x'

Yeah, naaah. I didn't vote for my own. I did vote for Clarkson because nobody else currently in the game has done what he has done

 

[MrWoollie]

For sustained excellence over a long period, getting the best out of players year after year, getting the best out of other club cast-offs it has to be Clarkson.

As a WC supporter I was tempted to vote for Ross Lyon as I want him to be recognised as the best ever by the Freo board and to get a forever contract extension. But that would have been against the spirit of the vote.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Chris Scott only has a losing record against 3 coaches, and it's only by 1 loss.

7 wins 8 losses vs John Longmire
5 wins 6 losses vs Nathan Buckley
2 wins 3 losses vs Adam Simpson



What about the fact that Chris Scott has the greatest winning percentage out of any coach in history to have coached 150 games or more?



I'm referring to when Sheedy was our coach in 2012 and 2013 and no one suggested he was the best coach in the game.

Your argument is still rubbish.

Chris Scott took over an elite list. Clarkson had to rebuild one from scratch.

Come back when Scott has done that and won 4 flags.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Simpson. Took the eagles to a flag with the gaff s**t and nicnat not playing.
Clarke is obviously the best long term coach.

It's not even really a great question and not really a great debate. Putting bias aside Clarko is the revolutionary coach of the modern era. The other guy you mentioned Simpson has something in common with Clark, he worked under Clarkson. In fact you will find that apart from the Scott brothers most of the coaches who many experts say are very good guess who they worked under?. This year we will find out just how legendary Clarko's ability is. Doesn't have a top notch list so has to improvise a game plan to suit the players he has. It's off to a good start.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Your argument is still rubbish.

Chris Scott took over an elite list. Clarkson had to rebuild one from scratch.

Come back when Scott has done that and won 4 flags.

Chris Scott has never really had a rubbish list. He has done very well to keep Geelong near the top for a long time so I'll give him credit for that. He is a good coach. He isn't in front of Clarko though a fair way behind still.

 

[Black Stripe]

Your argument is still rubbish.

Chris Scott took over an elite list. Clarkson had to rebuild one from scratch.

Come back when Scott has done that and won 4 flags.

Chris Scott took over at a time when the team was past it and had just been smashed in a preliminary final.

On top of this they had key figures in Thompson, Costa, Robinson, Ablett and Rooke depart the club at the end of 2010.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Chris Scott took over at a time when the team was past it and had just been smashed in a preliminary final.

On top of this they had key figures in Thompson, Costa, Robinson, Ablett and Rooke depart the club at the end of 2010.

Clarkson took over when Hawthorn had completed a 4 win season.

You have no idea what you are talking about and your opinion is rubbish.

Don't bother responding because you are literally too stupid to have a reasonable discussion with and I am done with this rather pathetic "argument" of yours.

You're a troll.