Who is the best shooter of all time?

[Pistol Night]

If you wanted someone shooting for your life, from anywhere on the court, under pressure with a second on the clock, in game 7, who would you want taking that shot?

Which players would want that shot and be most likely to hit it?

The best shooter is the one who does it when it matters most.

Reggie Miller

 

[fidstar]

Still Steph.

 

[kozi]

If you wanted someone shooting for your life, from anywhere on the court, under pressure with a second on the clock, in game 7, who would you want taking that shot?

Which players would want that shot and be most likely to hit it?

The best shooter is the one who does it when it matters most.

Anywhere on the court (assuming at a reasonable distance) and under pressure (assuming own shot would need to be created)

That would still be Stephen Curry.

 

[Slysh]

If you wanted someone shooting for your life, from anywhere on the court, under pressure with a second on the clock, in game 7, who would you want taking that shot?

Which players would want that shot and be most likely to hit it?

The best shooter is the one who does it when it matters most.

Nah this is some skip type s**t, the best shooter is the guy who is the best shooter. 1st quarter or a buzzer beater. Up 40 or tied game.

The answer is Steph and no logical argument can be made for anyone else

 

[fidstar]

 

[blackcat]

If you wanted someone shooting for your life, from anywhere on the court, under pressure with a second on the clock, in game 7, who would you want taking that shot?

Which players would want that shot and be most likely to hit it?

The best shooter is the one who does it when it matters most.

Reggie was good in 80s/90s

one thing flawed in your position, til 2015 and Curryball/Moreyball 99.9% of takes were two(s) to win, or two(s) to tie JJRedick on DraymonGreen's pod
5 in no order

StephAllenMillerThompson... and that Atlanta×Cleveland guyguy Korver,

they got a fair bit wrong on their assessment of perimeter game, from a theoretical and statistical perspective , the next StephCurry emerging, the biggest competition is not Ben Simmons or Matisse Thybulle blocking his shot, but being the Trae Young unpeered rival on his own team to Jack ten threes a game and having zero contest to share the ball and those shots thru AAU/highschool/college/rookie... *now you may rebut 'well Steph and Trae indeed faced rivals-within-their-own-team to earn their sots' ... not so fast there bra...

Robert Sibley. besides Gaze&Copeland won a three-point shootout end of practice, he went 25 from 25
Mark Whitehead never got his 'due' looks besides Drewy


Steph's record will stand, even JJ won't drop like he expects

my point, toughest competition is DuncanRobinson v MaxStrus , toughest competition is internally , not Thybulle or Simmons , also the invisible arc extends 4 inches a year

 

[Scotland]

Nah this is some skip type s**t, the best shooter is the guy who is the best shooter. 1st quarter or a buzzer beater. Up 40 or tied game.

The answer is Steph and no logical argument can be made for anyone else

Playoff performances matter. Steph is a victim of his own ludicrous regular season standards. Career 26.5 PPG 45-40-90% shooter in the playoffs. Which is better than say Damian Lillard who is lauded for some of his playoff performances but was soundly beaten by Curry when they met.

If Steph was a career 30% 3 point shooter in the playoffs instead of 40% would that sway your opinion? People use playoff performances to judge Rudy Gobert as a 3 x DPOY, James Harden as a 3 x scoring leader etc.

In answer to HHH's specific hypothetical I am taking Ray Allen over Curry. But they played very different roles. Allen 'saved LeBron's legacy' in game 6 vs the Spurs hitting the famous corner 3 after Chris Bosh tipped it to him. That was his third 3 point attempt (first made) and 8th FGA. Curry is never going to be sitting in the corner having attempted three 3s in 40 minutes.

 

[Scotland]

What do a floater and a layup (+1) have to do with being a clutch shooter?

If we're going down the rabbit hole of '10 seconds on the clock, give the ball to your guy to run an iso play to get a bucket' then who is picking Steph? He's not an iso player and his team doesn't play iso heavy offence - hence they have been so good. In that scenario this year (assuming Steph-Klay-Dray-Wiggins-Poole finishing 5) he would be immediately doubled with the defensive intention to make Draymond shoot from distance.

When people hate on Curry (fairly or otherwise) they are looking at the 2016 finals. When the score is tied with 5 minutes to go and your unanimous MVP who just made 400 3s in a season after no one in history had made 300 goes 0/5 from the field and 0/4 from 3 the blowtorch comes.

 

[Slysh]

Playoff performances matter. Steph is a victim of his own ludicrous regular season standards. Career 26.5 PPG 45-40-90% shooter in the playoffs. Which is better than say Damian Lillard who is lauded for some of his playoff performances but was soundly beaten by Curry when they met.

If Steph was a career 30% 3 point shooter in the playoffs instead of 40% would that sway your opinion? People use playoff performances to judge Rudy Gobert as a 3 x DPOY, James Harden as a 3 x scoring leader etc.

In answer to HHH's specific hypothetical I am taking Ray Allen over Curry. But they played very different roles. Allen 'saved LeBron's legacy' in game 6 vs the Spurs hitting the famous corner 3 after Chris Bosh tipped it to him. That was his third 3 point attempt (first made) and 8th FGA. Curry is never going to be sitting in the corner having attempted three 3s in 40 minutes.

Maybe i should have phrased it better, it all matters but people over rate play off moments.

Steph has the numbers to crush anyone in the regular season or in the play off's. If you want to look past the numbers and go off the eye test i think he wins even more because no one takes and makes as many difficult shots as Steph does.

Lets also not forget Allen hit that shot at the end of his career as a rotation guy, lets see where Steph sits in another 5 or so years. I think his case to being the greatest ever shooter will have only become stronger in that time.

 

[Scotland]

Maybe i should have phrased it better, it all matters but people over rate play off moments.

Steph has the numbers to crush anyone in the regular season or in the play off's. If you want to look past the numbers and go off the eye test i think he wins even more because no one takes and makes as many difficult shots as Steph does.

Lets also not forget Allen hit that shot at the end of his career as a rotation guy, lets see where Steph sits in another 5 or so years. I think his case to being the greatest ever shooter will have only become stronger in that time.

The famous Chicago Bulls moments are iconic because of the significance. Paxson hit a 3 with 5 seconds to go to put them up 1 in 1993. Kerr hit a 2 with 5 seconds to go to put them up 2 in 1997. Jordan hit a 2 with 5 seconds to go to put them up 1 in 1998. All 3 shots won games that won titles. The iconic plays from 2016 are 'blocked by James!' and then Kyrie making a dagger 3. Curry had 2 attempts to go ahead at 89-89 and and missed both then one to tie the game at 92-89 and missed. He makes one of those he's a hero and clutch Curry.

The bolded is kind of my point. It's not Steph's fault he's so good that he can't sit in the corner - plus he's still in his prime and we don't know what he'll be doing when in his late 30s but it's unlikely he'll be a 3 and D wing given his size.

In some hypothetical world where Steph is the 3rd or 4th scoring option or a bench player he probably shoots like peak Kyle Korver. His brother is a better 3 point shooter by % but doesn't carry nearly the same load. But Steph still doesn't have his Kyrie/Allen moment in the finals so people are always going to say 'so you shot 13/17 against the Pelicans in the regular season so what?'. Heavy is the head that wears the crown and all that. LeBron won 4 MVPs in 5 years and now has 4 championships and 4 finals MVPs and still gets roasted for disappearing against Dallas and losing 2 of 4 finals series with the Heat.

 

[Slysh]

The famous Chicago Bulls moments are iconic because of the significance. Paxson hit a 3 with 5 seconds to go to put them up 1 in 1993. Kerr hit a 2 with 5 seconds to go to put them up 2 in 1997. Jordan hit a 2 with 5 seconds to go to put them up 1 in 1998. All 3 shots won games that won titles. The iconic plays from 2016 are 'blocked by James!' and then Kyrie making a dagger 3. Curry had 2 attempts to go ahead at 89-89 and and missed both then one to tie the game at 92-89 and missed. He makes one of those he's a hero and clutch Curry.

The bolded is kind of my point. It's not Steph's fault he's so good that he can't sit in the corner - plus he's still in his prime and we don't know what he'll be doing when in his late 30s but it's unlikely he'll be a 3 and D wing given his size.

In some hypothetical world where Steph is the 3rd or 4th scoring option or a bench player he probably shoots like peak Kyle Korver. His brother is a better 3 point shooter by % but doesn't carry nearly the same load. But Steph still doesn't have his Kyrie/Allen moment in the finals so people are always going to say 'so you shot 13/17 against the Pelicans in the regular season so what?'. Heavy is the head that wears the crown and all that. LeBron won 4 MVPs in 5 years and now has 4 championships and 4 finals MVPs and still gets roasted for disappearing against Dallas and losing 2 of 4 finals series with the Heat.

No but he does have 8 game winners in his career, almost all of which were contested shots that he created for himself.

His ability to create his own shot as well as move off ball and hit a catch and shoot is what separates himself. As well as his range.

Honestly the eye test shows you he is the greatest shooter of all time but i am a bit of a nerd so lets have a look at a few of the numbers

His 2015/16 season is inarguably the greatest shooting season of all time.

He changed the way the game is being player, rewrote the rules on what a small guard can do and did it while winning championships.

He has the legacy, the stats and the eye test. He is the greatest shooter and the gap to number 2 is pretty big.

 

[Scotland]

No but he does have 8 game winners in his career, almost all of which were contested shots that he created for himself.

His ability to create his own shot as well as move off ball and hit a catch and shoot is what separates himself. As well as his range.

Honestly the eye test shows you he is the greatest shooter of all time but i am a bit of a nerd so lets have a look at a few of the numbers

His 2015/16 season is inarguably the greatest shooting season of all time.

He changed the way the game is being player, rewrote the rules on what a small guard can do and did it while winning championships.

He has the legacy, the stats and the eye test. He is the greatest shooter and the gap to number 2 is pretty big.

How do Steph's game winners and clutch stats stack up against Damian Lillard? Last playoffs Lillard dropped 55-10-6 shooting 12/17 from 3. 3 pointer with 3 seconds left to take it to OT, two 3 pointers in the last minute to get it from an 8 point deficit to 2, then a 3 pointer with 6 seconds left to take it to double OT. I think we all know Steph Curry is capable of those numbers but where are his playoff epic performances? He had his chances in the 2016 and 2019 finals to be the man when challenged and came up short. He's not a playoff disaster, but if you watched his playoff games only you wouldn't call him the GOAT shooter. More often than not when the Warriors needed someone to step up it was Klay. And when KD was there they were just playing with teams.

Curry is great within the Warriors' offence, runs around all over the place to get split second looks, drives to the basket when defenders over commit to defending 3s etc. But plenty of other players do other things too. He is amazing, but he's not perfect. Other players are better contested shooters, other players shoot better in clutch situations. His 2015/16 was phenomenal. 400 3 pointers, 50-40-90 club, 30 points a game, 73 wins... and no ring. When he needed to be the greatest shooter the game has ever seen he wasn't. 73 wins and 400 3s in a season are great but 4 or maybe even 5 championships in a row are greater. I don't know why people want to pretend that Steph is the same player in big games or that he isn't but it doesn't matter.

The gap between Steph and Klay as shooters is not pretty big at all. Klay is criminally underrated.

 

[Slysh]

How do Steph's game winners and clutch stats stack up against Damian Lillard? Last playoffs Lillard dropped 55-10-6 shooting 12/17 from 3. 3 pointer with 3 seconds left to take it to OT, two 3 pointers in the last minute to get it from an 8 point deficit to 2, then a 3 pointer with 6 seconds left to take it to double OT. I think we all know Steph Curry is capable of those numbers but where are his playoff epic performances? He had his chances in the 2016 and 2019 finals to be the man when challenged and came up short. He's not a playoff disaster, but if you watched his playoff games only you wouldn't call him the GOAT shooter. More often than not when the Warriors needed someone to step up it was Klay. And when KD was there they were just playing with teams.

Curry is great within the Warriors' offence, runs around all over the place to get split second looks, drives to the basket when defenders over commit to defending 3s etc. But plenty of other players do other things too. He is amazing, but he's not perfect. Other players are better contested shooters, other players shoot better in clutch situations. His 2015/16 was phenomenal. 400 3 pointers, 50-40-90 club, 30 points a game, 73 wins... and no ring. When he needed to be the greatest shooter the game has ever seen he wasn't. 73 wins and 400 3s in a season are great but 4 or maybe even 5 championships in a row are greater. I don't know why people want to pretend that Steph is the same player in big games or that he isn't but it doesn't matter.

The gap between Steph and Klay as shooters is not pretty big at all. Klay is criminally underrated.

Steph averages more points than Lillard, shooting better from 3 and better from 2 in the play offs. Lillard has had some iconic moments and is incredibly clutch but even in the play offs the numbers just don't stack up.

See Klay is probably a top 5 shooter all time, but the gap between him and Steph is huge still. Catch and shoot? Sure you can make a case for Klay. Off the dribble? Not even remotely close, like not in the same stratosphere.

Steph is averaging 40% from 3 in his career in the play offs on over 10 attempts... You are drastically underrating him by saying he is 'not a play off disaster' He is a whisker away from being 50/40/90 in the play offs over his entire career.

Yeah he came up short in 2016 and all it took was a top 2 player all time playing one of his best seasons of all time. 2019 He had no Kd and no Klay and no bench up against a very underrated team. Those knocks on him in those 2 years would be fair if you were discussing where Steph sits all time as a player, but they are not knocks on his shooting.

 

[Scotland]

I'm drastically underrating Steph in the playoffs, you are oversimplifying his record.

Each to their own but I'm not that impressed by stats in a 16-1 playoff run. Shooting 42% from 3 on 13.3 (!) attempts a game in a finals series is incredible, but we're talking about a 4-0 sweep where the Warriors were a +60 better team. And the one game that was close until the end he shot 1/10 from 3 anyway.

If you can't shoot because Klay and KD aren't there, are you really the greatest shooter of all time? It's literally the one skill he is being judged on. I'm not judging him for not winning, I'm judging him for not doing the thing he is so good at.

It's not Steph's job to stop LeBron any more than it's LeBron's job to stop Steph. They play different positions and are a physical mismatch. But it's LeBron's job to run the offence, make big plays and score big buckets. And it's Steph's job to go down the other end and do similar. LeBron held up his end of the bargain, Steph did not. If you are the GOAT shooter don't give me 0/5 in the last 5 minutes in game 7.

Lillard if he is lucky plays alongside CJ and Nurkic, and if he's unlucky gets Enes Kanter or Hassan Whiteside. He's a superstar and not in the GOAT shooter conversation. But he still elevates in playoffs. Portland scrape over the line for playoff wins with Dame scoring 50. GS win series with Steph not even playing. Totally different scenarios. Also a lot of pressure is taken off one way guards when the team has a strong defence. You can see the exhaustion in Donovan Mitchell giving his team efficient scoring in the playoffs (not this year) only to see their system give up buckets at the other end.

It's rough on Curry because he set a new benchmark of what he can do and people want to see him do it when it matters. No one shoots 4/10 from 3 every game and stats average over time but if the Warriors Celtics series goes down to the line and Steph catches another cold I don't want to hear about what he did vs the Mavs or Nuggets.

 

[fidstar]

I love Lillard, but sheesh.

Steph is 10-0 against Lillard in the playoffs and averages 33.4 points, 7.4 assists, 6.8 rebounds • 54.6 2P% | 41.4 3P% | 91.3 FT% • +152 (+15.2 per game).

I'm not sure what Steph was meant to do against the Raptors. No KD, Thompson and a broken Looney. He wasn't amazing, but the dude is 6 foot nothing and was facing a defense playing a box and 1. Hard to be super efficient in that case as a shooter. He's not build like KD who can shoot over the top, and he's not built like Lebron where he can bull doze his way to the basket.

Stephs the only guy to average 26/6 in the Finals on a winning team and not win the Finals MVP, and he did it 3 times.

Lillard elevating in the playoffs? Had some (all time) iconic moments for sure, but I don't think he elevates his game as a whole.

 

[peternorth]

If you wanted someone shooting for your life, from anywhere on the court, under pressure with a second on the clock, in game 7, who would you want taking that shot?

Which players would want that shot and be most likely to hit it?

The best shooter is the one who does it when it matters most.

One wonders if the answer to your question is

 

[nWo]

Reggie was good in 80s/90s

one thing flawed in your position, til 2015 and Curryball/Moreyball 99.9% of takes were two(s) to win, or two(s) to tie JJRedick on DraymonGreen's pod
5 in no order

StephAllenMillerThompson... and that Atlanta×Cleveland guyguy Korver,

they got a fair bit wrong on their assessment of perimeter game, from a theoretical and statistical perspective , the next StephCurry emerging, the biggest competition is not Ben Simmons or Matisse Thybulle blocking his shot, but being the Trae Young unpeered rival on his own team to Jack ten threes a game and having zero contest to share the ball and those shots thru AAU/highschool/college/rookie... *now you may rebut 'well Steph and Trae indeed faced rivals-within-their-own-team to earn their sots' ... not so fast there bra...

Robert Sibley. besides Gaze&Copeland won a three-point shootout end of practice, he went 25 from 25
Mark Whitehead never got his 'due' looks besides Drewy


Steph's record will stand, even JJ won't drop like he expects

my point, toughest competition is DuncanRobinson v MaxStrus , toughest competition is internally , not Thybulle or Simmons , also the invisible arc extends 4 inches a year

Um….it was Stephen Whitebead….

 

[Scotland]

I love Lillard, but sheesh.

Steph is 10-0 against Lillard in the playoffs and averages 33.4 points, 7.4 assists, 6.8 rebounds • 54.6 2P% | 41.4 3P% | 91.3 FT% • +152 (+15.2 per game).

I'm not sure what Steph was meant to do against the Raptors. No KD, Thompson and a broken Looney. He wasn't amazing, but the dude is 6 foot nothing and was facing a defense playing a box and 1. Hard to be super efficient in that case as a shooter. He's not build like KD who can shoot over the top, and he's not built like Lebron where he can bull doze his way to the basket.

Stephs the only guy to average 26/6 in the Finals on a winning team and not win the Finals MVP, and he did it 3 times.

Lillard elevating in the playoffs? Had some (all time) iconic moments for sure, but I don't think he elevates his game as a whole.

No one is saying it's easy. But Steph is the greatest shooter of all time. He's made a career out of making bullshit shots, not sitting in the corner waiting for open 3s. How many Mike Breen 'Curry. Bang!' calls are there? He missed plenty of clutch shots in the 2016 and 2019 finals that he would otherwise make.

He didn't win finals MVP in 2017 because he was the 3rd or 4th best player in the series. It was closer in 2018 but KD and LeBron were the best two players on the court. 2015 I would've given in to Curry as I don't think holding a guy to 36-13-9 is that good even though LeBron's efficiency was poor.

Earlier ITT I said Curry was the best 3 point shooter ever (der) but others are better in other aspects of shooting and got (pardon the pun) shot down. KD walks up and shoots over 6'10'' wings for fun. Jordan and Kobe said 'give me the ball against your best guy and I'll make a jumper'. It's not Steph's fault KD's release point is a foot or two so higher but there are plenty of players as tall as KD and none of them are "easy money sniper". LeBron has never been a great shooter.

Curry is the better shooter and player and has had a better career than Lillard, but he also landed in the perfect environment for his skill set. Portland haven't had an all star other than Lillard since 2015. Klay has 5 selections in that time, Dray 4, Durant had 3 and Wiggins has 1. Steph hasn't been asked to carry a team with another small guard in the back court and an awful front court. Every small guard would relish the opportunity to play alongside Klay and Dray, let alone with KD or Wiggins thrown in.

Anyway the 2022 finals will be interesting. Boston have a DPOY point guard and great perimeter defence. They are a good match up in terms of nullifying GS' strengths.

 

[blackcat]

Um….it was Stephen Whitebead….

his younger brother had one of those 70s era names , but Stephen Whitehead was peripherary of nonWorldChamps/nonOly's- national teams , everyone can flat-out shoot and make ten threes in a VBL Wednesday Night, like BenSimmons in u18 at Knox on Friday can make a perimeter shot, and Monteverdi less at LSU but put the line 10inches back, with new demands(pressure) and new defense with less tripleThreat optionality,

the mental ability to take miss and make is underrated, Steph would be ±25k takes over AAU, HS, College, NBA, he has developed that neural wiring to maximum level

nWo was other Whitehead Carlton Blues circa 98 with a MatthewEgan navicular, and sued Blues doc or management under OH&S law

 

[Borough Blood]

Al Horford. Obviously.

 

[fidstar]

Steph now has 5 of the top 6 post season 3 pointer totals.

1.	Stephen Curry	98​	2015
	Klay Thompson	98​	2016
3.	Stephen Curry	92​	2019
4.	Stephen Curry	80​	2016
5.	Stephen Curry	72​	2017
	Stephen Curry	72​	2022

 

[Slysh]

Steph now has 5 of the top 6 post season 3 pointer totals.

1.	Stephen Curry	98​	2015
	Klay Thompson	98​	2016
3.	Stephen Curry	92​	2019
4.	Stephen Curry	80​	2016
5.	Stephen Curry	72​	2017
	Stephen Curry	72​	2022

Yeah but he doesn't have a finals MVP so he is a bust SMFH

 

[Slysh]

 

[Slysh]

 

[Slysh]

But some people want to question him as a big game player lmfao