Who is the best team in the history of the game to not win a grand final??

[AlwaysHawks15]

Saints 09-10 is a good suggestion by the OP
Collingwood of the early noughties coming up against the Brisbane juggernaut
Melbourne team of the late 1980s was laden with talent, they were killing it in the 87 finals series and would have won the grand final IMO if Stynes didn't have his brain fade in the prelim

Rekon they would have played better than we did. We were banged up. No Dunstall and Brereton played injured. Melbourne were going as well as Carlton and Hawthorn at the end of 1987. Easily good enough to win it. 1988 we actually got better as a team somehow.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Best forward line by far, elite midfielders, but an average defence.

92-95 maybe yes not 1989-91. Sure 1989 you kicked the biggest total across the year but we had the best forward line. We had Buckenara and Curran behind the 2 superstars. The GF proved ours was better. Ablett kicked 9 but we had a host our guys kick 3 or 4.

 

[Sttew]

92-95 maybe yes not 1989-91. Sure 1989 you kicked the biggest total across the year but we had the best forward line. We had Buckenara and Curran behind the 2 superstars. The GF proved ours was better. Ablett kicked 9 but we had a host our guys kick 3 or 4.

No argument there. I was really explaining that Cats were not that good in 89-95

Dont forget though Cats had Ablett, Brownless, a red hot Stoneham, and Gavin Exell who IIRC kicked 65 goals.

It was a crazy GF, one of the best.

 

[M Malice]

In my time watching the game ie. since the late 90s the St Kilda side of 2009-10 were a hell of a team.

If you are talking best team in one particular season not to win it it just has to be the 2008 Cats.

 

[Corkintheocean]

As far as individual seasons go - West Coast of 1991 could be considered right up there with the Geelong side of 2008. Ironically both got done in by Hawthorn.

 

[Fadge]

In my time watching the game ie. since the late 90s the St Kilda side of 2009-10 were a hell of a team.

If you are talking best team in one particular season not to win it it just has to be the 2008 Cats.

Meteoric Rise likes this.

 

[pz5151]

You’re really gonna mention Carlton’s great team of 09 and then say Saints was overrated?

Fisher was a star so don’t know why you put him in there. He was an All Australian and won 2 club best and fairest’s in some of our best ever teams.

Dempster was another All Australian, although he probably wasn’t as good in our 09-10 years, more so later on.

Gram was our best in the 09 Granny and was 1 vote off a norm smith. Very handy player

Baker was 3rd in our 04 best and fairest and then won a best and fairest in 05 and was a very solid player. Underrated outside the club

Gilbert was one of the best running intercept defenders in that 08-11 period.

They all played 200+ AFL games except Gram

Dawson and Clarke were no good and Jones was limited but a very solid role player and tagger. And Ray was another solid role player.

This. Anyone saying that St Kilda side was overrated either didn’t see them or is blind. Just bad timing to have peaked at the same time as one of the best teams of all time in Geelong and then had an injury interrupted year in 2010.

 

[beema limapep]

Probably Geelong - 1870 to 1896

 

[Osho]

Probably Geelong - 1870 to 1896

ROAR!
I'd like to see the footage.

 

[Osho]

92-95 maybe yes not 1989-91. Sure 1989 you kicked the biggest total across the year but we had the best forward line. We had Buckenara and Curran behind the 2 superstars. The GF proved ours was better. Ablett kicked 9 but we had a host our guys kick 3 or 4.

Btw, bumped into Mr. Curran the other day, teaches English to my son, has lost his follicular lustre (haven't we all), what a very good reliable hard working forward he was. That Hawks team had many dimensions to it across all lines, and the flair and risk taking that Jeans cultivated worked wonders.

 

[Osho]

Yep, certainly is a strange take.

I think it shows how fortunate Richmond were to win the three flags they won, as opposed to unlucky in not winning 2018.

I think it shows your bias.

 

[Fadge]

I think it shows your bias.

Huh?

If I said to you GWS are going to finish top 4 in each of the next 4 seasons, and in only one of those years they're going to finish top of the ladder after the home and away rounds, but will not win the flag that year.

How many flags are they likely to win in the other three years?

 

[phantom13]

Bulldogs from about 2007 to 2010 were really unlucky to come up against Geelong, Pies, Hawks and Saints teams to just pip them into making Grand Finals. They had some good teams around then that were always just short somewhere.

One of the teams you listed as being really good also didnt win a flag and made grannys so youd think they would make more sense than the Dogs.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Meteoric Rise likes this.

2008 Cats have legit claims.

A St Kilda side that only ever beat one team in a final that had won over 15 games, and they fell in with less scoring shots, give me a spell. They fooled everyone by having a strong 16 weeks early in one home and away season - 2009, outside of that they weren’t even at the level of a median beaten Grand Finalist. They won 5 finals ever, and not one of those was a commanding performance. They couldn’t even beat noted Grand Final chokers Geelong and Collingwood Grand FInals when they needed to. Great side for a Saints side, but that aint winning this thread.

 

[phantom13]

I honestly think that St Kilda team is a bit over-rated, and that is part of the reason they didn't win the premiership. Some superstar players, but quite a lot of just 'guys' imo (Zac Dawson, Baker, Fisher, Gilbert, Farren Ray, Jones, Gram, Raph Clarke, Dempster... that's a lot of 'meh' players). If you compare Geelong, they probably only have Mark Blake, Wojcinski, Shannon Byrnes, and maybe Max Rooke in that category.

Their top end was excellent - but so was Geelong and Collingwood.

Obviously better than Carlton - our list was more about what should have been, rather than what ever was (ie: the guys who got injured and dropped off, the guys who were better at 19 than they were at 25, etc).

Youre not talking about Sam Fisher i hope?

 

[Fadge]

2008 Cats have legit claims.

A St Kilda side that only ever beat one team in a final that had won over 15 games, and they fell in with less scoring shots, give me a spell. They fooled everyone by having a strong 16 weeks early in one home and away season - 2009, outside of that they weren’t even at the level of a median beaten Grand Finalist. They won 5 finals ever, and not one of those was a commanding performance. They couldn’t even beat noted Grand Final chokers Geelong and Collingwood Grand FInals when they needed to. Great side for a Saints side, but that aint winning this thread.

You never fail to disappoint...

 

[Meteoric Rise]

You never fail to disappoint...

There will always be people who are disappointed by the truth Fadge.

 

[And_ROOS]

One of the teams you listed as being really good also didnt win a flag and made grannys so youd think they would make more sense than the Dogs.

But they made Grand Finals, so they got the opportunity. Plus they did manage a draw, which considering St Kildas GF history is nearly a win.

 

[Osho]

Huh?

If I said to you GWS are going to finish top 4 in each of the next 4 seasons, and in only one of those years they're going to finish top of the ladder after the home and away rounds, but will not win the flag that year.

How many flags are they likely to win in the other three years?

Tiges a fortunate THREE flags in FOUR years.

Come on, man, open up that other eye.

 

[Fadge]

Tiges a fortunate THREE flags in FOUR years.

Come on, man, open up that other eye.

Ok, you don't understand probability.

Gotcha.

 

[Osho]

Ok, you don't understand probability.

You gotcha a full brain, and using half of it.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

You gotcha a full brain, and using half of it.

Oh you haven’t read half of it Osho. Old Fudge has concocted a whole alternative reality which when you follow it to its logical conclusion has Richmond 2010 roughly on a par with Richmond’s dynasty team. I kid you not. That is how much better the super era 2009-11 was than the AFL of the last 6 years according to Fadge

 

[phantom13]

Are people still seriously trying to play the 3 flags in 4 years ain’t s**t?

Ffs, give the credit where it’s due and cop the tigers were ******* awesome. Hell Kingsley is trying to emulate them now at GWS 6 years on from their first flag.

 

[nut]

Richmond 2018

 

[Fadge]

Are people still seriously trying to play the 3 flags in 4 years ain’t s**t?

No. I haven't seen anyone say that.

I personally have said that probability dictates Richmond were fortuitous to win 3 flags in 4 seasons, given their lack of dominance throughout the years of their premierships.

Not dissimilar to Hawthorn 2013 to 2015. Though they had 2012 as a near miss as well.