Who is the true goat in Tennis ?

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magpies42

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Nadal is the better player on Clay surface. Outside of that its Federer. Most of the H2H wins have been on Clay where I'd assume Nadal owns most players.
If you split it like that then it’s in thirds. Fed grass and Djokovic hard courts. Federer has had similar one sided dominance on grass.
 

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BobbyMorri

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The French open is a Grand Slam, entirely different context pressure and tennis. You have to be able to play 5 sets to beat Novak. Stefanos can’t do that.
Stefo has beaten Nadal and Federer at the Aus Open.

If Novak has a downer after last night, and if Stefo is ready, then Stefo can win. The last time Novak beat Nadal at the French, he did not win the title. He had a downer in the final and Stan beat him.
 

Roobs321

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Stopping Nadal from getting his choice slam is just as good as winning it really in terms of the slam tally. Novak would love to get a second, but I wouldn’t put too much pressure on him. After all, barely anyone can count a win against Nadal there, he never goes cheaply.
 

juss

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If you split it like that then it’s in thirds. Fed grass and Djokovic hard courts. Federer has had similar one sided dominance on grass.
Not true, Nadal's slam wins are 65% the French Open, it's by far the biggest percentage at one event of the big 3. The others have been more rounded whereas Nadal is a surface specialist compared to the other two in comparison.
 

pepsi

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Looking simply at Grand slam title count is wrong I think. When Sampras got to 14 grand slams were, people saying he was the GOAT? Not many were. I think it comes down to a combination of slam titles, record across the 4 slams, weeks at #1, matters titles, record against your main rivals. Claims could be made for all three of them, plus Laver.
 

Flameboy

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Looking simply at Grand slam title count is wrong I think. When Sampras got to 14 grand slams were, people saying he was the GOAT? Not many were. I think it comes down to a combination of slam titles, record across the 4 slams, weeks at #1, matters titles, record against your main rivals. Claims could be made for all three of them, plus Laver.
A good summary.

Pains me in some ways to say it (Nadal fan), but I think Djokovic is on top.

He leads head to heads. Weeks at number 1. Masters. And will probably lead grand slams soon.
 

magpies42

Norm Smith Medallist
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Stefo has beaten Nadal and Federer at the Aus Open.

If Novak has a downer after last night, and if Stefo is ready, then Stefo can win. The last time Novak beat Nadal at the French, he did not win the title. He had a downer in the final and Stan beat him.
Of course anything is possible, Novak is the most unpredictable of the big 3...but in a way has also been the most consistent.

I think people are largely disrespectful of Stan he has an outstanding record in the big games. And very much took it to Novak and won the game. Novak didn’t lose it, they also had an epic 5 set semi final the year prior at the Aus Open. Stefanos doesn’t havethe weapons or fitness to take Novak to 5 sets.
 

magpies42

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Not true, Nadal's slam wins are 65% the French Open, it's by far the biggest percentage at one event of the big 3. The others have been more rounded whereas Nadal is a surface specialist compared to the other two in comparison.
Fair enough, I get the argument...it’s valid. I would contend though, that clay is the most ubiquitous of surfaces and the most played on around the world. It is as such more contested.

I think also you need to look at the opponents. Nadal and Djokovic played in a tougher era, they had each other to beat as well as Federer, Stan, Del Porto, Murray...all players with no real weaknesses. Federer has spanned eras but had a much easier run at it early days when he piled on the grand slams. If the number two in the world is Andy Roddick, or a Safin that played a handful of tournaments a year that’s not comparable in terms of quality.
 

juss

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Fair enough, I get the argument...it’s valid. I would contend though, that clay is the most ubiquitous of surfaces and the most played on around the world. It is as such more contested.

I think also you need to look at the opponents. Nadal and Djokovic played in a tougher era, they had each other to beat as well as Federer, Stan, Del Porto, Murray...all players with no real weaknesses. Federer has spanned eras but had a much easier run at it early days when he piled on the grand slams. If the number two in the world is Andy Roddick, or a Safin that played a handful of tournaments a year that’s not comparable in terms of quality.
This is one of those arguments where 1/2/3 order you could mount some sort of case for each, and there might still be some more to play out over the next couple years
 

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boncer34

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Djokovic will end up with the most slams

Most weeks at No 1

Most season end no 1s.

Djokovic is going down as the GOAT.
Amusingly a lot of Federer fans only looked at outside of total Grand Slams when it became apparent he was being run down. Prior to that it was the only criteria they cited.
 

Redline

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Looking simply at Grand slam title count is wrong I think. When Sampras got to 14 grand slams were, people saying he was the GOAT? Not many were. I think it comes down to a combination of slam titles, record across the 4 slams, weeks at #1, matters titles, record against your main rivals. Claims could be made for all three of them, plus Laver.
It's interesting with Sampras. I was probably one of those at the time. I think people forget how totally dominant he was at times. Obviously now I'd have this group ahead of him.
 

Roobs321

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Slam tallies only really became a major deal very recently, it didn’t feel as big a deal as YE#1s as a kid when Sampras won 6 straight. Sampras chasing down Emerson and Fed chasing down Sampras were big news, but it wasn’t until Nadal approached Sampras too and looked a chance at catching Fed, with Novak also amassing and Serena approaching 20, that it started to become a media craze.

At the 2013 USO Nadal won his 13th and Serena her 17th. I feel like that might have been a tipping point in hindsight. To have a handful of players in that ATG space shifted the conversation of the sport a little bit, especially come Novak’s mid 10s when he went 6 from 8. As a kid, if you told me someone won 3 slams, 2 gold, a YE#1 and unlikely Davis Cup (Murray), that would’ve sounded spectacular to me.
 

Flameboy

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Slam tallies only really became a major deal very recently, it didn’t feel as big a deal as YE#1s as a kid when Sampras won 6 straight. Sampras chasing down Emerson and Fed chasing down Sampras were big news, but it wasn’t until Nadal approached Sampras too and looked a chance at catching Fed, with Novak also amassing and Serena approaching 20, that it started to become a media craze.

At the 2013 USO Nadal won his 13th and Serena her 17th. I feel like that might have been a tipping point in hindsight. To have a handful of players in that ATG space shifted the conversation of the sport a little bit, especially come Novak’s mid 10s when he went 6 from 8. As a kid, if you told me someone won 3 slams, 2 gold, a YE#1 and unlikely Davis Cup (Murray), that would’ve sounded spectacular to me.
That is still a spectacular career.

What we are witnessing with Fed/Nadal/Novak is God level tennis. The three best players of all time.
 

FreoRicci

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Not just winning majors, but the way he mentally grinds and destroys players.
The way he just attacked Stefanos is another gear to his game. He can defend and grind, then attacks to blow opponents away. Nuts
 

FreoRicci

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Looking simply at Grand slam title count is wrong I think. When Sampras got to 14 grand slams were, people saying he was the GOAT? Not many were. I think it comes down to a combination of slam titles, record across the 4 slams, weeks at #1, matters titles, record against your main rivals. Claims could be made for all three of them, plus Laver.
Then Novak owns it. Why the counter argument.
Better head to head record of all three- Novak
Most weeks at number 1 - Novak
Most consecutive weeks at number 1- Novak
Most masters titles - Novak and Nadal
Only player to win Career Golden masters- Novak.

Only player of last 50 years/modern era to have won each major at least twice- Novak

I mean it’s so foregone. Federer fans just use the most major excuse. Once Novak surpasses him, what’s the argument? Best technique, most talented?
 

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