Who is the true goat in Tennis ?

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Between 2004 and 2010 Federer (and Nadal on Clay) broke an entire generation of tennis players, and Djoker is reaping the benefits of it.
 

pepsi

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Between 2004 and 2010 Federer (and Nadal on Clay) broke an entire generation of tennis players, and Djoker is reaping the benefits of it.
Interesting take, I can't agree. Djokovic had only won 1 slam up until 2011 and had to develop his game to beat Federer and Nadal. For me he has raised the level even further to combat both Federer and Nadal.
 

Caesar

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Between 2004 and 2010 Federer (and Nadal on Clay) broke an entire generation of tennis players, and Djoker is reaping the benefits of it.
I think that is a little simplistic. The biggest thing to change tennis in 2004 wasn't Roger Federer winning 3 Grand Slams - it was the invention of copoly strings. The huge spin they generated had the flow-on effect of finally letting players effectively harness the power of large-headed racquets, which had been around for a while but always been a bit of a double-edged sword. Way more spin without sacrificing power means more consistency, longer points, and less upsets.

At the same time, organisers were already implementing other things to generally push results towards being more predictable. The increase to 32 seeds at Slams had already started, as had the general slowing of fast surfaces. As the Federer/Nadal rivalry started to emerge, both players put pressure on various event organisers to further slow down their courts to entrench their dominance. Federer was effectively responsible for driving carpet off the main tour, when he essentially told Bercy to move to hardcourt or he'd stop playing there. Djokovic has exerted a similar amount of influence since he joined them.

All in all it has been very good for the ATP, whose revenues have quadrupled since 2004. Because fans love it - they want to see a small number of players devour titles and records and have huge heavyweight bouts at the end of big tournaments. Whether it is a good thing for tennis, I am not so sure. But with so much money to be made, I can't see any of it changing.

It does however mean that I have a little trouble crediting too many of the 'all time' records that continue to be set by the big three. They are obviously great players, but their achievements are muddied way too much by the way that the game has changed to favour entrenched, experienced players during their careers.

I suspect a lot of people won't fully appreciate how much the game has changed until another couple of generations have passed.
 

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FreoRicci

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Between 2004 and 2010 Federer (and Nadal on Clay) broke an entire generation of tennis players, and Djoker is reaping the benefits of it.
What generation is that?
Hewitt, Safin, Rafter, an aging Agassi and Sampras? Once in a flash Baghdatis or Nalbandian.
Please. Find a generation that is as weak. You couldn’t.
Federer came at the right time. He loss in US opens to Safin and Del Porto. That shows he was certainty beatable. Just Del Porto did his knee and Safin chose a lifestyle much like Kyrgios. Wasn’t interested in tennis.
Hewitt had glaring limitations. It really was a underwhelming generation.
Murray, Nadal and Djokovic came at once, and then Fed started to have weaknesses.
Nadal wins one more French, he’s tied. Add an Australian or US this year and he’s taken over as the GOAT.
Djokovic wins two with that and he’s on 18. Just a matter of time before Roger is merely the third best.
 

dustysnecktattoo

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I enjoyed the Djokovic and Murray rivalry while it lasted, aso poor Andy roddick 3 losses at Wimbledon against fed. The last one 2009 was a great match
 

mcgarnacle

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Federer has grace
Nadal is a brute.
But Djokovic will be the GOAT. Being a distant 3rd in the popularity stakes means sh*t. He's practically owned this sport and bested the other two on 2 of the 3 surfaces for the major part, and particularly in the past decade where all 3 have been established.

I love watching Federer. He and Aussie Nick are my favourite players to watch. But he largely dominates players outside of the two. Up until 2017, he struggled against Nadal everywhere. Djokovic is probably not as great to watch as the other two, but he's the most consistent ground stroker in tennis, has the best defensive game, and works more on forcing errors rather than rattling off shots like Fed. Just like footy, it's not the most exciting brand of tennis, but it's been the most effective.
 

Jack Gun Cyril Stun

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Federer has grace
Nadal is a brute.
But Djokovic will be the GOAT. Being a distant 3rd in the popularity stakes means sh*t. He's practically owned this sport and bested the other two on 2 of the 3 surfaces for the major part, and particularly in the past decade where all 3 have been established.

I love watching Federer. He and Aussie Nick are my favourite players to watch. But he largely dominates players outside of the two. Up until 2017, he struggled against Nadal everywhere. Djokovic is probably not as great to watch as the other two, but he's the most consistent ground stroker in tennis, has the best defensive game, and works more on forcing errors rather than rattling off shots like Fed. Just like footy, it's not the most exciting brand of tennis, but it's been the most effective.
The artist, the bull and the machine.
I prefer watching fed and Rafa as no one has ever played the game quite like them imo and they have such contrasting styles.
But when it comes to efficiency, Novak is unbelievable, he’s not as entertaining to watch in my view but has had the better of both of them when they’re all playing at their top.
 

Thrawn

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But Djokovic will be the GOAT. Being a distant 3rd in the popularity stakes means sh*t. He's practically owned this sport and bested the other two on 2 of the 3 surfaces for the major part, and particularly in the past decade where all 3 have been established.

I love watching Federer. He and Aussie Nick are my favourite players to watch. But he largely dominates players outside of the two. Up until 2017, he struggled against Nadal everywhere. Djokovic is probably not as great to watch as the other two, but he's the most consistent ground stroker in tennis, has the best defensive game, and works more on forcing errors rather than rattling off shots like Fed. Just like footy, it's not the most exciting brand of tennis, but it's been the most effective.
The problem is that the older you are, the harder it is to play defensive tennis, which is a cornerstone to Djokovic's game. Hit the mid-30s, he's not going to do those famous slide shots of his. His wall will start to have holes. Heck, even last year in Wimbledon a 37 year old Federer exposed that. That's why he's currently trying to make his serve into a better weapon. The question is: can he do it as reliably as Federer has in that age?
 

mcgarnacle

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The problem is that the older you are, the harder it is to play defensive tennis, which is a cornerstone to Djokovic's game. Hit the mid-30s, he's not going to do those famous slide shots of his. His wall will start to have holes. Heck, even last year in Wimbledon a 37 year old Federer exposed that. That's why he's currently trying to make his serve into a better weapon. The question is: can he do it as reliably as Federer has in that age?
Who knows, perhaps he will! We won't know until he gets to his mid-30s. Injury-free, I still think Novak can win at least 2 slams per year for the next couple of years at the very least.

Nadal has the French in the bag for several seasons yet. The fact that slam final is played in the day on the slowest surface suits his top spin to a tee.

New York is a humid b*tch during the US Open and a going to be a real struggle for Fed the longer he plays. His best chances to add to his tally will be Aus Open and Wimbledon - and a Novak injury as in 2017-2018.
 

Nuggs Bunny

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The decline for Nadal and Djokovic is probably much closer than people think because neither of these guys plays tennis in a way that will hold stead at 38. Federer is a huge outlier who's had a blessed run with injuries and never played a game that was known to be as physically demanding as what Novak and Rafa are known for; I highly doubt we'll see anybody else win a grand slam at 36.

Couple in the inevitable progression of guys like Medvedev and Zverev, and this could potentially be one of the last tours where the big 3 start atop the rankings.
 

boncer34

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The problem is that the older you are, the harder it is to play defensive tennis, which is a cornerstone to Djokovic's game. Hit the mid-30s, he's not going to do those famous slide shots of his. His wall will start to have holes. Heck, even last year in Wimbledon a 37 year old Federer exposed that. That's why he's currently trying to make his serve into a better weapon. The question is: can he do it as reliably as Federer has in that age?
It's gonna really suck for you when Nadal and Novak relegate Fed to #3 on the Slams list.
 

boncer34

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The decline for Nadal and Djokovic is probably much closer than people think because neither of these guys plays tennis in a way that will hold stead at 38. Federer is a huge outlier who's had a blessed run with injuries and never played a game that was known to be as physically demanding as what Novak and Rafa are known for; I highly doubt we'll see anybody else win a grand slam at 36.

Couple in the inevitable progression of guys like Medvedev and Zverev, and this could potentially be one of the last tours where the big 3 start atop the rankings.
Yeah nah.

Novaks got another 3 years minimum in him.
 

Thrawn

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It's gonna really suck for you when Nadal and Novak relegate Fed to #3 on the Slams list.
Nadal might do it, Novak needs to win five GS titles to get it. Where will he win those titles? Even a 37 year old Federer pushed him to the brink last year, so it's not a given.

You're assuming he will not get knocked out of Wimby and the US Open the next few years. That's also assuming he stays in tip-top form during the AO.

Weren't you talking sh*t earlier last year how Djokovic was going to win USO? There are no guarantees in sport (as you should know from a certain PF loss). Maybe try to keep your predictions a little bit more realistic next time.
 
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boncer34

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Nadal might do it, Novak needs to win five GS titles to get it. Where will he win those titles? Even a 37 year old Federer pushed him to the brink last year, so it's not a given.

You're assuming he will not get knocked out of Wimby and the US Open the next few years. That's also assuming he stays in tip-top form during the AO.

Weren't you talking sh*t earlier last year how Djokovic was going to win USO? There are no guarantees in sport (as you should know from a certain PF loss). Maybe try to keep your predictions a little bit more realistic next time.
Wanna show me where I did this?

And cute mentioning football teams in a discussion about tennis. 😂 You really are heartbroken they're passing him. Christ Thrawny it's not like you're actually a close personal friend of his.
 

Thrawn

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Wanna show me where I did this?

And cute mentioning football teams in a discussion about tennis. 😂 You really are heartbroken they're passing him. Christ Thrawny it's not like you're actually a close personal friend of his.
As I said - there are no guarantees in sport matey. You of all people should know. You'll be eating your words, as you usually do.

Maybe actually respond to the points instead of typing gibberish.
 

boncer34

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As I said - there are no guarantees in sport matey. You of all people should know. You'll be eating your words, as you usually do.

Maybe actually respond to the points instead of typing gibberish.
I did.

I asked for you to show me my posts about the US open. Any chance of you doing that now instead of deflecting?
 

Thrawn

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I did.

I asked for you to show me my posts about the US open. Any chance of you doing that now instead of deflecting?
You didn't even answer what GS titles he was going to win to surpass 20.

And there's a reason why I framed that as a question.... just say "no", it's not that hard. But then again, you can't seem to answer basic questions, so...
 

boncer34

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You didn't even answer what GS titles he was going to win to surpass 20.

And there's a reason why I framed that as a question.... just say "no", it's not that hard. But then again, you can't seem to answer basic questions, so...
Oh.

So to counter my point you bought up football and made something up.

Who's posting gibberish Thrawny?
 

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