Who is the true goat in Tennis ?

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BringouttheGimp

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Sugar Ray Robinson or Floyd Mayweather as far as I’m concerned but you could make a case for anyone of a dozen fighters what’s your point?

Base it on the same criteria.. or should I say.. criterion.. you used to declare Nad's the GOAT?
 

PhatBoy

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Base it on the same criteria.. or should I say.. criterion.. you used to declare Nad's the GOAT?


As they don’t play tennis, no.

The closest equivalent is golf and even that doesn’t necessarily translate because you aren’t impacting on your opponents’ performance in anyway bar psychologically.
 

BringouttheGimp

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What’s your opinion on Definitely Maybe vs What’s The Story?
Unforgettable Fire vs The Joshua Tree?
II vs Physical Graffiti?

If I wanted overall reeeesults.. and had to chose between Nad's and Djokovic to perform to these tracks at the Odyssey.. Broadway.. 5th Avenue.. etc.. I'd go with Djokovic.. without a shadow of a doubt.
 

PhatBoy

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If I wanted overall reeeesults.. and had to chose between Nad's and Djokovic to perform to these tracks at the Odyssey.. Broadway.. 5th Avenue.. etc.. I'd go with Djokovic.. without a shadow of a doubt.

‘If I wanted one of them to perform on Djokovic’s preferred surfaces, I’d go with Djokovic.’

Astounding.
 

BringouttheGimp

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As they don’t play tennis, no.

The closest equivalent is golf and even that doesn’t necessarily translate because you aren’t impacting on your opponents’ performance in anyway bar psychologically.

Aha.. ok..

Don't liken a punch in boxing to a back/forehand in tennis? Catch your opponent off guard with a nice one right down the line.. after setting him up in a rally?
 

PhatBoy

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Aha.. ok..

Don't liken a punch in boxing to a back/forehand in tennis? Catch your opponent off guard with a nice one right down the line.. after setting him up in a rally?


As it’s a punch to the head, no. As boxers in professional ranks don’t fight tournaments, no. As ‘multiple champion’ in boxing means you’ve actually had to lose and regain the title, no. It’s all very well comparing sportsmen from different fields but using identical criteria to rate them within their respective fields is utterly stupid
 

Thrawn

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If Federer converted one of those championship points in Wimb '19, it would be a very different story. Could've had enough confidence and momentum to even win the US Open. But alas, he hasn't recovered mentally from 40-15 and never will. Assuming his knee will be okay and will be fit enough, that mental scar will affect his other matches (it already has).

He'd need to be kissed on the dick with the Wimbledon draw to have any chance of winning it, I think he'll reach as far as the QF and get routed. I would like to see him go around for one more year, just to say goodbye at the AO. I think next year will be his last.
 

PhatBoy

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If Federer converted one of those championship points in Wimb '19, it would be a very different story. Could've had enough confidence and momentum to even win the US Open. But alas, he hasn't recovered mentally from 40-15 and never will. Assuming his knee will be okay and will be fit enough, that mental scar will affect his other matches (it already has).


He wasn’t AS close but Nadal was up a break twice in the fifth and I THINK once in the fourth at the AO last time Federer won which could have had a big impact as well but unfortunately for Rafa he squandered it
 

thetank

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Pretty obvious out of the big 3 that Nadal is the goat.

Not only 21 majors, but he has done it with the least attempts, 63.

Djoker had an amazing run of health and despite this only has 20 majors from 65 attempts.

Federer was a downhill skiier, but weak psychologically on the rare occasions his opponents were able to put up a fight. Against weak opponents, none better than Federer. On the other hand, Nadal is the weakest of the 3 vs lower-ranked opponents.
 

BringouttheGimp

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GOATness based on one criterion.. I've never heard of such nonsense.
 

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PhatBoy

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GOATness based on one criterion.. I've never heard of such nonsense.


As opposed to basing it on head to head records?

If you’re that keen to explore all the variables, address how Nadal has managed to put up more titles than the other two despite ‘his’ surface being the least played on in terms of both Tour and Grand Slam tournaments.

Address that his career overlaps both the early dominance of Federer and the later dominance of Djokovic and he’s still managed to keep pace and now overtake them.

Then address the fact that he has won more of the only four measuring stick events that anyone really gives a toss about
 

PhatBoy

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I noticed that the irrelevance of gold medals remains intact but the irrelevance of other non slam achievements is the be all and end all
 

BringouttheGimp

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As opposed to basing it on head to head records?

If you’re that keen to explore all the variables, address how Nadal has managed to put up more titles than the other two despite ‘his’ surface being the least played on in terms of both Tour and Grand Slam tournaments.

Address that his career overlaps both the early dominance of Federer and the later dominance of Djokovic and he’s still managed to keep pace and now overtake them.

Then address the fact that he has won more of the only four measuring stick events that anyone really gives a toss about

Basing it on everything.. and I don't think you've answered many of my questions.. Nadal grew up playing on clay courts by the way.. hence why he's an Odyssey legend re.
 

PhatBoy

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Basing it on everything.. and I don't think you've answered many of my questions.. Nadal grew up playing on clay courts by the way.. hence why he's an Odyssey legend re.


Who cares, they all grow up on particular surfaces - his favoured one happens to be used less than the others and he still matches and surpasses their numbers.
 

BringouttheGimp

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Who cares, they all grow up on particular surfaces - his favoured one happens to be used less than the others and he still matches and surpasses their numbers.

If Nadal won all 22 slams at the French.. he'd be the GOAT?
 

PhatBoy

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If Nadal won all 22 slams at the French.. he'd be the GOAT?


He’d have a case. Being THAT unbeatable on anything would put you in the discussion. As it is all three of them have done enough on all surfaces to show that they are rounded enough to succeed anywhere so it doesn’t really matter too much does it?
 

BringouttheGimp

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He’d have a case. Being THAT unbeatable on anything would put you in the discussion. As it is all three of them have done enough on all surfaces to show that they are rounded enough to succeed anywhere so it doesn’t really matter too much does it?

Why would it put him in the 'discussion' when all it's about is winning grandslams.. according to you. Why even have a discussion about it. Simple math right.

You're confusing 'G GSC OAT' with 'GOAT'.. GSC = Grand slam champion.

I rest my case.
 

PhatBoy

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Why would it put him in the discussion when all it's about is winning grandslams.. according to you.

You're confusing 'G GSC OAT' with 'GOAT'.. GSC = Grand slam champion.

I rest my case.
Because my argument is too easily defeated if he can only show that he can win on one surface.

The whole idea of the grand slams is that they are played on 3 different surfaces rather than 1, even before hardcourt came along they were at least played on 2. To qualify for a best ever discussion in any sport you’d have to be able to show you can at least compete in different conditions. A cricketer boasting an average of 100 but who’s never made triple figures away from home would have a hard time being regarded as the best even if figures supported the notion. As it is, he hasn’t won 22 French opens he’s won 13. He’s won elsewhere as much as Agassi won anywhere, more than Edberg and Becker and McEnroe won anywhere. It’s a moot point
 

boncer34

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If the US had stayed as Clay when it first changed this argument would possibly be moot.
 

BringouttheGimp

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Because my argument is too easily defeated if he can only show that he can win on one surface.

The whole idea of the grand slams is that they are played on 3 different surfaces rather than 1, even before hardcourt came along they were at least played on 2. To qualify for a best ever discussion in any sport you’d have to be able to show you can at least compete in different conditions. A cricketer boasting an average of 100 but who’s never made triple figures away from home would have a hard time being regarded as the best even if figures supported the notion. As it is, he hasn’t won 22 French opens he’s won 13. He’s won elsewhere as much as Agassi won anywhere, more than Edberg and Becker and McEnroe won anywhere. It’s a moot point

Try and convince some Collingwood supporters who think John Greening is the GOAT.. that they got it wrong. Bloke only played 107 games. Pendlebury.. 300 game player.. has won individual awards.. multiple times.. it must be him.
 

BringouttheGimp

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If the US had stayed as Clay when it first changed this argument would possibly be moot.

How niche is the clay surface compared to the other 3.. Nadal grew up on it.. 13.. he was always gonna Odyssey Travolta it. Are the other 3 more of an even playing field?
 

PhatBoy

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Try and convince some Collingwood supporters who think John Greening is the GOAT.. that they got it wrong. Bloke only played 107 games. Pendlebury.. 300 game player.. has won individual awards.. multiple times.. it must be him.


To win any award or competition multiple times you would need to prove your longevity would you not? That’s part of the whole numbers thing - Borg is probably the exception as he won his titles in an incredible compressed timespan but everyone else with lots of titles has demonstrated their greatness by doing it for a long time
 

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