Prediction Who replaces David Noble

[displacedaussie]

Any half decent contract should make all IP he developed while at the Crows our property not his. This system should belong exclusively to the Crows and he should be forbidden from utilizing it, or any derivative of it, for the Lions.

A formula/process could possibly be considered IP, but where would that stop in the AFL industry? I'm sure every single coach learns certain formulas/processes/methods for doing things when they're at a club. Should they be forbidden from using those things when they move on to the next job? You can't stop someone from using their own knowledge when they move somewhere else.

The only thing he'd be expected to not share/utilise in his new job is confidential AFC information about contracts, how AFC internally rated players etc. etc. I'm sure he's professional enough that that won't be a problem.

 

[spexau]

Because if he is the one that has come up with it, then it is HIS IP, not necessarily the clubs.

I think it depends when he came up with it. Did he come up with it out of hours in his own time then approach the club to use it? Probably his IP. Did the club approach him and ask him to develop a system during work hours? Clubs IP.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I think it depends when he came up with it. Did he come up with it out of hours in his own time then approach the club to use it? Probably his IP. Did the club approach him and ask him to develop a system during work hours? Clubs IP.

You can't be serious! You cannot stop people from using the knowledge or skills they have developed, one way or the other while at previous employments.

It would be like telling a manager that has come through the ranks of your company from a paper pusher to a manger that he is not able to use the skills or implement processes that he has learnt in his career in his new role.

As previously mentioned the only thing he would be prevented from using is knowledge related to contracts, player standings etc. There is nothing stopping him from introducing systems, processes etc that he has learnt at AFC in his new role in Brisbane.

 

[gothecrows]

Because if he is the one that has come up with it, then it is HIS IP, not necessarily the clubs.

Even if he didn't come up with it, there's nothing to stop him using knowledge gained here at any new job.
Now, if he (or someone else at the club) had developed an actual application/program that was being used, then yes, that could be protected in a contract clause, and he wouldn't be able to take it with him. Again though, there would be nothing to stop him using his knowledge of how the application works to create a similar one at a new company.*

*Yes, there can be provisions against this sort of thing in contracts too, but they generally pertain to retail products, not things that are used in-house.

 

[Vhaluus]

Because if he is the one that has come up with it, then it is HIS IP, not necessarily the clubs.

Uhhh I kind of addressed this in my post did I not?

 

[Vhaluus]

You can't be serious! You cannot stop people from using the knowledge or skills they have developed, one way or the other while at previous employments.

It would be like telling a manager that has come through the ranks of your company from a paper pusher to a manger that he is not able to use the skills or implement processes that he has learnt in his career in his new role.

As previously mentioned the only thing he would be prevented from using is knowledge related to contracts, player standings etc. There is nothing stopping him from introducing systems, processes etc that he has learnt at AFC in his new role in Brisbane.

Yes you can, I used to work in software development.

I couldn't just take a piece of code written for an employer and then take it off and use it for myself.. this is no different.

 

[Vhaluus]

Even if he didn't come up with it, there's nothing to stop him using knowledge gained here at any new job.
Now, if he (or someone else at the club) had developed an actual application/program that was being used, then yes, that could be protected in a contract clause, and he wouldn't be able to take it with him. Again though, there would be nothing to stop him using his knowledge of how the application works to create a similar one at a new company.*

*Yes, there can be provisions against this sort of thing in contracts too, but they generally pertain to retail products, not things that are used in-house.

That's not how IP works. it doesn't have to be an application.

If you have a system, even if it is worked out entirely by hand, that is intellectual property.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Yes you can, I used to work in software development.

I couldn't just take a piece of code written for an employer and then take it off and use it for myself.. this is no different.

It is completely different. It's knowledge, not some application or a piece of code. I think other posters have explained it pretty clearly. No one can stop him or prevent him from using the knowledge or implement the systems and processes in place that he has learnt at AFC. As someone mentioned, it if is an application, then he wouldn't be able to take it with him but there is nothing stopping him from developing a similar application like the one here if he has enough background knowledge to do it

 

[Vhaluus]

It is completely different. It's knowledge, not some application or a piece of code. I think other posters have explained it pretty clearly. No one can stop him or prevent him from using the knowledge or implement the systems and processes in place that he has learnt at AFC. As someone mentioned, it if is an application, then he wouldn't be able to take it with him but there is nothing stopping him from developing a similar application like the one here if he has enough background knowledge to do it

What do you think intellectual property is? It is literally that, owned ideas.

He has a codified system, that is IP. Same as a currency traders algorithm or a piece of music.

 

[1970crow]

I don't know but we seem to be doing a pretty decent job of it. Sure you need you A grade talent so you either have to be brilliant at recruiting and developing especially when you don't have early picks or you have to be smart at trading.

Out team is literally filled with players, some that were in AA squad this year that were classic money ball moves. Lynch, Jenkins, Brown, Seedsman, Cheney are the first ones that come to mind.

Considering we've achieved nothing but a couple of 6th placed finishes and were found out massively in week 2 of finals both years I'd say the jury's out on the moneyball method. It's probably geared towards the 'make the finals and anything can happen as long as you've got player continuity' system. If you're looking for a bloke to build a list from the middle, make finals, but ultimately get nowhere, then Moneyball Dave is probably your man.

 

[1970crow]

Because if he is the one that has come up with it, then it is HIS IP, not necessarily the clubs.

Yeh, worked on it entirely outside the club, completely independent of our operations and on his own dime. Anyway, who cares about it, he's thankfully gone and so is his belief that guys like Mackay are valuable players, worthy of long term deals.

 

[1970crow]

It is completely different. It's knowledge, not some application or a piece of code. I think other posters have explained it pretty clearly. No one can stop him or prevent him from using the knowledge or implement the systems and processes in place that he has learnt at AFC. As someone mentioned, it if is an application, then he wouldn't be able to take it with him but there is nothing stopping him from developing a similar application like the one here if he has enough background knowledge to do it

I think you've missed the post where Brent Reilly seems to imply that it is effectively a piece of code. If that's the case, he's obviously free to use his knowledge to re-engineer it elsewhere, but he wouldn't be free to take a copy with him. Not that I give a s**t, can take what he likes, just as long as he goes and we get in fresh ideas.

 

[Vhaluus]

I think you've missed the post where Brent Reilly seems to imply that it is effectively a piece of code. If that's the case, he's obviously free to use his knowledge to re-engineer it elsewhere, but he wouldn't be free to take a copy with him. Not that I give a s**t, can take what he likes, just as long as he goes and we get in fresh ideas.

Actually no, with IP you can't just take it and remake it somewhere else.

If the Crows own the IP then he needs permission to use the system or any derivative of it.

 

[1970crow]

Actually no, with IP you can't just take it and remake it somewhere else.

If the Crows own the IP then he needs permission to use the system or any derivative of it.

I doubt we can tie his hands from performing his role. What he's created would be a variation of what every other club already does. There may be a unique element to it, but in reality it's just a methodology for selecting players based on his personal value system. I doubt we can stop him using his experience and personal beliefs. It's so meaningless that it wouldn't warrant second thought anyway. If he forgot to take his memory stick with him, we'd probably airbag it up. I can't see us attacking him legally because he entered his beliefs and rating system onto a spreadsheet again.

 

[Wilko91]

You can't be serious! You cannot stop people from using the knowledge or skills they have developed, one way or the other while at previous employments.

It would be like telling a manager that has come through the ranks of your company from a paper pusher to a manger that he is not able to use the skills or implement processes that he has learnt in his career in his new role.

As previously mentioned the only thing he would be prevented from using is knowledge related to contracts, player standings etc. There is nothing stopping him from introducing systems, processes etc that he has learnt at AFC in his new role in Brisbane.

A specific program, spreadsheet, manual... yes, yes you can stop them. He would have had to develop it after hours, using his own dollars and most importantly using his own equipment. Even if he used an AFC laptop while developing it, then the club owns it, unless his contract states that both own it.

You could not however, stop him from recreating it. But he would not be able to use any electrical or physical materials from his AFC time.


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http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=82566

 

[jenny61_99]

Because if he is the one that has come up with it, then it is HIS IP, not necessarily the clubs.

Developed at the Crows, it becomes their IP.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I'm happy for Trigg to use all the stuff he used at the Crows

 

[displacedaussie]

It's pretty obvious that a tangible object like a spreadsheet isn't something that Noble can take with him or re-use. That is clearly the property of the AFC. That doesn't need to be debated.

Certain things he came up with _could_ be classed as trade secrets - if there is a particular formula or process that was developed while working for the AFC, then it could be argued that this is IP that belongs to the AFC. If Noble used it at Brisbane then the AFC could sue him/them (ha! that would go down well at AFL House...). But I very much doubt he's just going to take this "moneyball" system and dump it as-is into a new club, so it's a non-issue.

But Noble is completely free to use the knowledge and experience he gained over the last 12 years in his new job, and he's also free to create a similar kind of system with that knowledge if he wants to.

 

[Tex200]

So has this genius IP of Nobles won us a flag?

So who cares - try something new

 

[MRB37]

I agree with what you're saying.

I think people use the term Moneyball loosely in football circles.

Whenever I hear it used in AFL, it's often to justify the recruitment of a B grade player that people don't seem to agree with or understand, and has nothing to do with sabermetrics.

I'm sure the NNSR (Nobles Non Statistical Rating) of a player is a number from 1 to 10 based on how much of a decent human being the person is (according to nobes).

I remember when Healy used it when the Bombers recruited McKernan. Basically anyone who isn't in a teams best 22 and moves to a new team has that label applied to them.

 

[MRB37]

It's pretty obvious that a tangible object like a spreadsheet isn't something that Noble can take with him or re-use. That is clearly the property of the AFC. That doesn't need to be debated.

Certain things he came up with _could_ be classed as trade secrets - if there is a particular formula or process that was developed while working for the AFC, then it could be argued that this is IP that belongs to the AFC. If Noble used it at Brisbane then the AFC could sue him/them (ha! that would go down well at AFL House...). But I very much doubt he's just going to take this "moneyball" system and dump it as-is into a new club, so it's a non-issue.

But Noble is completely free to use the knowledge and experience he gained over the last 12 years in his new job, and he's also free to create a similar kind of system with that knowledge if he wants to.

We just need to send the next guy on the same Harvard course to learn how Noble traded.

 

[WetCrow1991]

So has this genius IP of Nobles won us a flag?

So who cares - try something new

Also it is football, it is not that complicated.

 

[GreyCrow]

As previously mentioned the only thing he would be prevented from using is knowledge related to contracts, player standings etc. There is nothing stopping him from introducing systems, processes etc that he has learnt at AFC in his new role in Brisbane.

This is the reason he has been hunted? Because of his knowledge and processes he learnt at Adelaide. Crazy what people expect when people leave our club.

 

[King Elvis]

Where did I say they were out to get us? By poaching Noble to rebuild Brisbane, they've made us weaker, that's a fact. We now need to find a replacement and get him up to speed prior to the very important trade and draft weeks. The AFL shouldn't be getting involved at all, and certainly not pilfering healthy clubs to prop up their northern expansion clubs. If the club isn't capable of making their own appointments, they have no business being a club. That AFL are likely paying a hefty salary for the move, stinks.

I'm with you 100% here Jenn.

No problems with him going - my issue is with the governing body being the ones to make it happen.

We should consider this in the same vein as the other s**t we've had to deal with, and we should kick up a drink and demand compensation (not that we'd get any).

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I'm happy for Trigg to use all the stuff he used at the Crows

On the blues.