Opinion Who should be Bucks' mentor?

[gutsroy]

Basing it on what happens in the corporate world you'd be absolutely right about it saying nothing about Bucks. Nothing negative anyway because you simply wouldn't afford someone that support unless you were convinced that they were the right person for the job. Usually those things don't happen for a few years unless the person has been in the organisation for a while and you've been able to assess their suitability. What this tells you is either that those making the decisions are confident that they have a long term prospect in Bucks. Of course you can draw your own conclusions about those who have come to that conclusion but it seems pretty clear to me that Walsh, Ed and whoever else has a level of control believe that Bucks has what it takes to be a long term successful coach.

From what Ed has said, it seems that even he believes that Bucks has not had the level of support nor football department stability that a successful coach would need. To me, that along with a number of other comments made by Ed in the last 48 hours indicate that there is some recognition that the problem lies mostly with people in higher positions than the coach and I violently agree. I've been saying that for a few years now. The succession plan was a great idea which was totally butchered by people who had no understanding of human nature and peoples' need to have a recognisable vision of their own future. They mismanaged the whole thing and we are now left in a position where we have to make the best of the fall out. I can honestly say that if it were my decision, and I was forced to apportion blame for the last 6 years, Bucks would be the last on my list. In reality, I'd sack Ed long before I sacked Bucks but I'm hoping that the departure of Pert goes some way to improving outcomes in the future. Who knows?

From what I've said, it's pretty obvious that I am totally unconvinced that Bucks is a part of the problem. Don't get me wrong, I totally recognise that his inexperience and aspects of his personality have not necessarily been ideal. Despite that, I still have a feeling that given a stable footy department, a supportive playing group (which he now has), a bit of luck with injuries (and I believe that things improved this year), some smart assistants and some more intelligent list management, he can potentially take us a long way. I don't subscribe to the sheep mentality that suggests that coaching is a short term thing because I've seen people in all areas of life go through rich and poor veins regardless of their efforts or their talent. Two things that I believe Bucks brings in ship loads. It just happens that in the football industry you are subject to criticism from so many uneducated armchair critics. To me it's a bizarre industry that could benefit far more from the attitudes of the corporate world but is held back by its unavoidable connection to the entertainment industry.

Anyway, I've had my rant and no doubt the loonies will be back with a vengeance. In my eyes, they'd cut off their noses to spite their face in a moment but you'll never convince them of that. Frankly, I couldn't give a rats what they say anymore. I've pretty much heard all the crap and so called proof they care to throw up... ten times over. No doubt they'll throw it all up again and be just as unsuccessful in convincing me of anything other than the they have no more idea than i do. They can feel free if that's what turns them on but I hope they understand that I've read all of that crap for a few years now and never once has anyone convinced me that the coach should be sacked.

Fire at will. (Just don't expect that I will give a sh1t!)

Please provide information on your own experience in the corporate world / mentoring etc. therein on which it appears you claim to be basing your 'strongly held' opinions.
You have the time to post the above, so it can't be a lack of time holding you back from outlining your credentials in the space, and it would help place your commentary in context.

 

[swoop42]

I thought they were talking about a mentor, not a coaching director.

If Collingwood were Game of Thrones Ed would be Littlefinger.

Honestly I doubt he can he can tell what is a truth, a half truth or lie these days such is the mastery of spin he has reached.

 

[Robroy22]

How do you know those coaches don't have a mentor?

Actually at the recent "David Parkin Oration" (Deakin Uni) Parko introduced the guest speaker as one of his most important and long term mentors, going back at least 3 decades. That person was Ric Charlesworth.

 

[PieNSauce]

You do understand you just did the same exact thing you accuse the other side of the debate of doing?

What is this other side you speak of? Do you mean loonies? Well I'd hope I'll always be on the other side of that.

 

[PieNSauce]

Please provide information on your own experience in the corporate world / mentoring etc. therein on which it appears you claim to be basing your 'strongly held' opinions.
You have the time to post the above, so it can't be a lack of time holding you back from outlining your credentials in the space, and it would help place your commentary in context.

Fine, I see no reason why I need to provide credentials against the faceless hoards here who don't do the same but I'll give you the following anyway for what it's worth. I'm not going to go into specifics for obvious reasons but suffice to say that I am a retired senior business intelligence consultant who has worked with and consulted to many of the largest corporations in this country as well as a number of multi-nationals and government departments. I think I've seen enough to have some clue of what I'm talking about but then anybody could say that so I'm really not sure what the point is.

Anyway, I've shown you mine, what about yours? (As if this conversation has any value! )

 

[PieNSauce]

If Collingwood were Game of Thrones Ed would be Littlefinger.

Honestly I doubt he can he can tell what is a truth, a half truth or lie these days such is the mastery of spin he has reached.

You may well be right!

 

[cityslick1]

Actually at the recent "David Parkin Oration" (Deakin Uni) Parko introduced the guest speaker as one of his most important and long term mentors, going back at least 3 decades. That person was Ric Charlesworth.

He worked with Neil Craig at Adelaide too, when they were a force. Helped them develop defensive structures including around a ball-up in the opposition forward line - using hockey strategies. Am sure I remember hearing that they virtually weren't scored against in these situations as a result.

 

[Carringbush2010]

What he actually needs is better quality line and development coaches that will have an input into how we play. If we can find them we'll improve. Vote one to ditch the yes men

How do we know that we haven't had them? Both Lappin and Hart have commented on Buckley's refusal to accept buy-in and his stubborness to alter his game plan and Eddie himself said the other day that Buck's is aware that he needs to let go of the reigns and allow buy-in. It doesn't matter how good the Assistants are, if the coach does not allow buy-in nothing will improve.[/QUOTE]
Great post! This pretty much sums it up and is my greatest fear. To me it looks like the club is hoping like hell that Nathan somehow just flicks a switch and voila becomes the great coach he should be, if I am correct then that you'd call "a bit of a stretch"

 

[Darkyprotector]

How do we know that we haven't had them? Both Lappin and Hart have commented on Buckley's refusal to accept buy-in and his stubborness to alter his game plan and Eddie himself said the other day that Buck's is aware that he needs to let go of the reigns and allow buy-in. It doesn't matter how good the Assistants are, if the coach does not allow buy-in nothing will improve.

Great post! This pretty much sums it up and is my greatest fear. To me it looks like the club is hoping like hell that Nathan somehow just flicks a switch and voila becomes the great coach he should be, if I am correct then that you'd call "a bit of a stretch"[/QUOTE]
yeah but
HART and Lappin, there opinion gives weight
1. ever sice lappin was at our club our clubs forward line was a shambles , coaching at suns (wont keep his job) still is for that matter DUD
2. Hart coaching at the moment , NO , any good NO

 

[Darkyprotector]

How do we know that we haven't had them? Both Lappin and Hart have commented on Buckley's refusal to accept buy-in and his stubborness to alter his game plan and Eddie himself said the other day that Buck's is aware that he needs to let go of the reigns and allow buy-in. It doesn't matter how good the Assistants are, if the coach does not allow buy-in nothing will improve.

Great post! This pretty much sums it up and is my greatest fear. To me it looks like the club is hoping like hell that Nathan somehow just flicks a switch and voila becomes the great coach he should be, if I am correct then that you'd call "a bit of a stretch"[/QUOTE]


Fair dinkum
blinkers off boys YOUR LISTENING TO TOO MANY MSM GUYS
Simplistic argument swallowed and driven by agendas.
WE HAVE A s**t LIST IN DEVELOPMENT
WE HAVE HAD s**t LINE COACHES
Please compare Lappin , Hart, Rocca to Essendons panel or Bulldogs or Demons, tigers or maybe just compare to Malthouse assistants.
Scott, neeld, waters, buckley, laidley, richardson, beveridge ect ect, all recieved senior gigs, Skinny Lappin , Ben hart hahahaha (what a beat up) both wont get a job going forward ,cheap shot artists full of bitterness.
Our bloke has recieved NO support, No guidance and has been slamed, still from pillar to post by the MSM and people with agendas including so called mentors, but still he presents with class , humility and style as well as improving along the way, i might add to the dismay of many on here.
Dont forget we still hold the record for GRAND final appearances and are still the biggest CLUB in the land.
A even draw, NO HOME GROUND ADVANTAGE, equilasation and expansion,throw in a injury or two and youre in the pack. i CAN SEE WHAT WERE BUILDING
Finals next year for sure EVEN WITH THE SAME SQUAD
BET ON IT

 

[CarnMags]

Isn't it up to the Senior coach to build their own network of support (assistant coaches) ?

 

[Maybenextyear]

Easier to sacrifice the mentor if it goes pear shaped can never have too many escaped goats

Whenever something goes wrong look out for any open gates. Escaped goats can cause all kinds of trouble.

I'll go back to my own board now. Thank you for your time.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Whenever something goes wrong look out for any open gates. Escaped goats can cause all kinds of trouble.

I'll go back to my own board now. Thank you for your time.

I know, how hard is it to get right, it's not rocket surgery.

 

[Countrypie]

Actually at the recent "David Parkin Oration" (Deakin Uni) Parko introduced the guest speaker as one of his most important and long term mentors, going back at least 3 decades. That person was Ric Charlesworth.

Best coach of any sport I've ever seen. ELite, smart, great communicator and outstanding results over a very long period

 

[Robroy22]

Best coach of any sport I've ever seen. ELite, smart, great communicator and outstanding results over a very long period

He gave a great speech too

 

[Countrypie]

He gave a great speech too

No doubt. If he ever coaches again, see if you can get a listen to his half time address. Very simple. What are we doing well boys? What dow e need to improve? And then he goes from there. Treats his athletes with respect but demands excellence

 

[Carringbush2010]

Please compare Lappin , Hart, Rocca to Essendons panel or Bulldogs or Demons, tigers or maybe just compare to Malthouse assistants

Going by that no team would need a senior coach, sounds like you're deflecting from the debate at hand

Our bloke has recieved NO support, No guidance and has been slamed

Don't think I even need to argue this, no support? Really?

Dont forget we still hold the record for GRAND final appearances and are still the biggest CLUB in the land

This does not address whether or not a supposed mentor needs a mentor

NO HOME GROUND ADVANTAGE, equilasation and expansion,throw in a injury or two and youre in the pack

Can think of 10 other Vic teams in similar situations, Geelong the exception with Simmonds but are equaled up with playing home games at the G

Thanks for a robust argument Deflector protector!

 

[TKiL]

Isn't it up to the Senior coach to build their own network of support (assistant coaches) ?

Exactly and assess their performance. No way should a club review be required to assess assistants. Senior coach should all over it like a rash.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Exactly and assess their performance. No way should a club review be required to assess assistants. Senior coach should all over it like a rash.

So you think a full review of the Football Department should actually be only a partial review?

 

[TKiL]

So you think a full review of the Football Department should actually be only a partial review?

the senior coach would provide the input on the performance of the assistants. If he can't do that then there's problems.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

the senior coach would provide the input on the performance of the assistants. If he can't do that then there's problems.

Imagine the melt if they were not part of the review, with you leading the charge.
So duplicitous its funny

 

[Darkyprotector]

Going by that no team would need a senior coach, sounds like you're deflecting from the debate at hand

Don't think I even need to argue this, no support? Really?

This does not address whether or not a supposed mentor needs a mentor

Can think of 10 other Vic teams in similar situations, Geelong the exception with Simmonds but are equaled up with playing home games at the G

Thanks for a robust argument Deflector protector!

All good mate love how you pick and choose what too reply to ,you simply cant handle logic , grow up
repeat s**t assistants , every premiership coach EVERY has quality assistants. If you think Hart ands Lappin are crediable , what are you on
REPEAT we have a s**t list , how many coaching directors (thanks mick you peice of s**t), hows that support going again! How that WHITE ANTING GO
Repeat no home ground advantage (hawks north swans suns lions gws,crows port dockers,eagles) thats how many 10 (ten)
look at the TASSIE games ,no home ground advantage youre kidding
no advantage hahaha

 

[Saintly Viewed]

How do you know those coaches don't have a mentor?

Sheedy back in the day used to chin wag with Tom Hafey.
I'd suggest many many coaches have trusted people to discuss things with.
Probabaly surprise people how much coaches talk to different people.

(Separately, ok not this presidency, Presidents would often discuss things with past incumbents. People would be staggered how much mutual respect there is between Bush and Clinton as an example.)

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I just haven't really liked the word mentor itself.
Causes too many opportunities to take pot shots at people.

Don't see any issues with talking to people and getting trusted thoughts / advice from people.

Nobody knows everything

 

[TKiL]

Imagine the melt if they were not part of the review, with you leading the charge.
So duplicitous its funny

Took an ever so slight double-take when I saw the word "duplicitous" - please explain. By the way of course the assistants would have input into the review but not on their own performance.