Movie Who should be the next Bond?

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phantom13

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Neither is corny. They are movies where you have to suspend some level of belief but, if presented well, are entertaining.

And MMA isn’t people taking 20-30 punches to the head, it’s narrowly avoiding 20-30 (gloved) punches to the head, or taking them on your guard; one flush punch to the face and they drop like a sack of potatoes.
In reality both things can be true, ive seen plenty of fighters take shots that i was sure would drop them and keep going, the lights out button is a fickle beast.

The reality is they coreographed all the fights in AB to get around the general issue most dudes have with women v men fights (ironically doing years of MMA, BJJ and Muay Thai ive had my ass kicked by many a girl) that "men are bigger and stronger" by having Charlize use counter fighting and leverage stuff, nothing in those scenes was actually unbelievable by action movie standards, if anything it was one of the more realistic action films ive scene (assuming you can just believe Theron has a good chin)
 

Bostonian

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So its totally unbelievable that she could get up from punches but also in real life combat sports you can take 20 or 30 and keep going...

Right/
Haha what?

In real life combat if she faced two men she'd get wrecked in under a minute 😂

In real life it's one man v one man.

There's a reason why any professional organisation won't allow men to fight women.
 

phantom13

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Haha what?

In real life combat if she faced two men she'd get wrecked in under a minute 😂

In real life it's one man v one man.

There's a reason why any professional organisation won't allow men to fight women.
Its a movie mate, its very clearly implied that shes a ******* stone cold highly trained bad ass fighting general henchman.

Its not real life, no one is implying it is, but you going "i can suspend my belief for Daniel Craig a 5'9" middle aged man fighting 5-6 guys and being fine but not Theron fighting 2 guys" is just bizarre.

In any event my point was you say shed get wrecked by one punch but then also note that MMA fighters take 20-30 shots and dont go down, thats men and women. Shes not fighting prime Mike Tyson, power punching unless you are a monster is a fine art.
 

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Bostonian

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Neither is corny. They are movies where you have to suspend some level of belief but, if presented well, are entertaining.

And MMA isn’t people taking 20-30 punches to the head, it’s narrowly avoiding 20-30 (gloved) punches to the head, or taking them on your guard; one flush punch to the face and they drop like a sack of potatoes.
Rocky IS corny AF. Like super corny. Remember the lame fight with Hulk Hogan?

Haha what a dumb take on MMA.

Holloway v Kattar fight Holloway landed 445 strikes. And you say they aren't landing 20-30?

Thanks for the laugh 😁
 

Bostonian

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Its a movie mate, its very clearly implied that shes a ******* stone cold highly trained bad ass fighting general henchman.

Its not real life, no one is implying it is, but you going "i can suspend my belief for Daniel Craig a 5'9" middle aged man fighting 5-6 guys and being fine but not Theron fighting 2 guys" is just bizarre.

In any event my point was you say shed get wrecked by one punch but then also note that MMA fighters take 20-30 shots and dont go down, thats men and women. Shes not fighting prime Mike Tyson, power punching unless you are a monster is a fine art.
Daniel Craig is the same height as Mike Tyson.

He also doesn't weigh 55kgs.

You can imply something, doesn't mean it's not comical when they try it.
 

Bostonian

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Exactly, but youre adamant the super bad ass spy who has done all the training and is effectively a female Bond cant take a couple of punches from random henchmen...
Yes I'm adamant that a person weighing around 55kgs who is far weaker in strength would get wrecked by said henchmen.

Hardly a big deal.
 

phantom13

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Daniel Craig is the same height as Mike Tyson.

He also doesn't weigh 55kgs.

You can imply something, doesn't mean it's not comical when they try it.
I sparred with a female Dutch kickboxing champion a few times at my gym.

She was 55kgs at most (in between fights, she fought at 47) she was probably 5'0". Im 6ft and 90 odd kilos.

I have boxed most of my life and had been doing MMA for a few years at that point.

She absolutely kicked my ass on the feet. The only way i could halve the fight was to wrap her up, now lets pretend she had also done years of Judo and BJJ (which is what were meant to believe with any super spy that theyve all done the equivalent of 20 years of every fight style).

Thats what were dealing with in AB

Its just bizarre that you can watch a dude fight off 5-10 guys and not bat an eyelid but see a girl and be adamant that she couldnt handle two guys or really one.

Your decisions about what is believable and whats not are just inherently misogynistic.
 

Bostonian

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I sparred with a female Dutch kickboxing champion a few times at my gym.

She was 55kgs at most (in between fights, she fought at 47) she was probably 5'0". Im 6ft and 90 odd kilos.

I have boxed most of my life and had been doing MMA for a few years at that point.

She absolutely kicked my ass on the feet. The only way i could halve the fight was to wrap her up, now lets pretend she had also done years of Judo and BJJ (which is what were meant to believe with any super spy that theyve all done the equivalent of 20 years of every fight style).

Thats what were dealing with in AB

Its just bizarre that you can watch a dude fight off 5-10 guys and not bat an eyelid but see a girl and be adamant that she couldnt handle two guys or really one.

Your decisions about what is believable and whats not are just inherently misogynistic.
Who says I don't find that ridiculous in the present movies?

Bond is "supposed" to be somewhat serious drama at times.

Which is why AB is more like Kingsman which is pretty much a well made pisstake of Bond film imo.

I've fought plenty in my life too and in my line of work I've seen a few women knocked out by men over the years. Which generally lead to those blokes also getting knocked out.

Your example is pointless however.

You weren't letting loose and trying to wreck her. You were sparring. You're not trying to knock her out.

With your training and your size as soon as you'd closed the distance you know you could hurt her badly.
 

phantom13

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Who says I don't find that ridiculous in the present movies?

Bond is "supposed" to be somewhat serious drama at times.

Which is why AB is more like Kingsman which is pretty much a well made pisstake of Bond film imo.

I've fought plenty in my life too and in my line of work I've seen a few women knocked out by men over the years. Which generally lead to those blokes also getting knocked out.

Your example is pointless however.

You weren't letting loose and trying to wreck her. You were sparring. You're not trying to knock her out.

With your training and your size as soon as you'd closed the distance you know you could hurt her badly.
Neither was she... in any event my point is that the idea in these movies is that she has all my training and then some, so she always has an out, which is how its always meant to be.

Shes not fighting the male equivalent, shes meant to be Bruce Lee, Royce Gracie and Izzy Adesanya rolled into one, the guys are meant to be me.

Your original take on this was

"Everyone laughed at how lame AB was with some short lightweight woman beating up huge men.

007 has no super powers and is an action hero.

Don't know how they would get around that aspect of the film without making it look totally ridiculous. "


Seems to imply that AB is ridiculous and Bond isnt and that making Bond a woman would be ridiculous because AB was. If thats not what you were saying then i apologise for not understanding your point, but if its, and i think it is, then is a pretty misogynistic take that "only men can be believable as super spies".

As for Kingsman... I loved it but it also featured a woman with blades for legs, Bond and AB are pretty grounded with the odd flourish (Craig especially have gone away from the invisible cars and sh*t) so not sure thats really the comparison anyone else made.
 

Bostonian

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Neither was she... in any event my point is that the idea in these movies is that she has all my training and then some, so she always has an out, which is how its always meant to be.

Shes not fighting the male equivalent, shes meant to be Bruce Lee, Royce Gracie and Izzy Adesanya rolled into one, the guys are meant to be me.

Your original take on this was

"Everyone laughed at how lame AB was with some short lightweight woman beating up huge men.

007 has no super powers and is an action hero.

Don't know how they would get around that aspect of the film without making it look totally ridiculous. "


Seems to imply that AB is ridiculous and Bond isnt and that making Bond a woman would be ridiculous because AB was. If thats not what you were saying then i apologise for not understanding your point, but if its, and i think it is, then is a pretty misogynistic take that "only men can be believable as super spies".

As for Kingsman... I loved it but it also featured a woman with blades for legs, Bond and AB are pretty grounded with the odd flourish (Craig especially have gone away from the invisible cars and sh*t) so not sure thats really the comparison anyone else made.
Women can very much be spies. It's not like there's not some excellent real life templates out there.

Virginia Hall and Nancy Wake a perfect example of it.

They weren't out punching on with German soldiers though. They used guile.

You can write an excellent female spy story without having them have to be physically fighting men in it.

Hell make them a super spy with super sniper skills.

Just don't see what the point of adding in lame fighting scenes is unless they have a female protagonist which works just fine.
 

Strange Cat

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Believable?

Those punches would have knocked her stupid but she jumps up like they are nothing.

I laughed in that scene.
Not every punch is a KO punch …spoken like some that hasn’t been a decent fist fight before

AB mostly used the momentum of the attacker against them which is what a person who is strength disadvantage in a fight should be doing anyway…it still doesn’t take away my point that every punch is going not going to KO someone it isn’t as easy as the movies /sport makes it look.
 
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Bostonian

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Not every punch is a KO punch …spoken like some that hasn’t been a decent fist fight before

AB mostly used the momentum of the attacker against them which is what a person who is strength disadvantage in a fight should be doing anyway…it still doesn’t take away my point that every punch is going not going to KO someone it isn’t as easy as the movies /sport makes it look.
Knocking someone stupid isn't KO'ing them. Otherwise I'd just have typed KO'ed...

You spoke like someone who has never been in a fight.
 

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Strange Cat

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Knocking someone stupid isn't KO'ing them. Otherwise I'd just have typed KO'ed...

You spoke like someone who has never been in a fight.
So you think every punch can knock around a person ? Good fantasy you have there…fantastic effort in ignoring my other point about the movie …but hey if you want to sit there and overly analyse a action movie over its fight realism you go right ahead imagine being triggered about a female spy taking hits and still fighting….I hope you can move past the shock of seeing that I hope you haven’t watched Salt.
 

iluvparis

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In case people haven't noticed the Craig Bond has got less and less chauvinistic as the series went on to the point there wasn't even a sex scene outside the opening credit this time and I barely remember him having a drink...

..go back to the Connery days and in some of the films he has literally been balls deep in two women before the opening credits come up and then pounded a third about 15 minutes later.

If they are ever going to transition to a female Bond they have set up for it now with the changes implemented during the Craig era.
 

phantom13

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In case people haven't noticed the Craig Bond has got less and less chauvinistic as the series went on to the point there wasn't even a sex scene outside the opening credit this time and I barely remember him having a drink...

..go back to the Connery days and in some of the films he has literally been balls deep in two women before the opening credits come up and then pounded a third about 15 minutes later.

If they are ever going to transition to a female Bond they have set up for it now with the changes implemented during the Craig era.
His character is still quintessentially a Bond archetype with deeply embedded issues pertaining to women.

We are one film removed from the villain making a specific reference to his lost love, lost mother (figure) and new lover.

Again, ill go watch the new Bond regardless of the gender or race of Bond it just feels like the only driver for the re casting of the character to a woman would be brand recognition.
 

Jatz

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Does it necessarily need a 'franchise'?

Wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for the next Bond cast to be a short term Bond.
 

iluvparis

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Does it necessarily need a 'franchise'?

Wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for the next Bond cast to be a short term Bond.
I know others degree but I personally didn't like how the Craig era basically had an overflowing story arc from one movie to the next. I personally preferred the one and done style of previous Bonds
 

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