Who Should Coach The Crows In 2005?

[lacrow]

OK, here's my stab at this:

1. Dermott Brereton - loves the Crows and it shows in his commentary. Plus, I like a lot of the things he has to say when commentating and think he has a good football brain. (but then, I don't have the extensive experience as some of the natives on this board do).

2. Terry Wallace - again, got A LOT out of nothing at the Western Bulldogs. I think the guy has the charisma and flair (which is something Blight had in spades) to turn the Crows into an exciting team again.

3. ??? Dunno.... Andrew Jarman maybe?

 

[Dogga]

Guys like Garry Lyon & Dermott Brereton are not going to take a pay cut to & move to Adelaide to take on a more strenuous occupation.

I would be trying to move heaven & earth to get J Worsfold over here for 2005.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by lacrow
OK, here's my stab at this:

1. Dermott Brereton - loves the Crows and it shows in his commentary. Plus, I like a lot of the things he has to say when commentating and think he has a good football brain. (but then, I don't have the extensive experience as some of the natives on this board do).

2. Terry Wallace - again, got A LOT out of nothing at the Western Bulldogs. I think the guy has the charisma and flair (which is something Blight had in spades) to turn the Crows into an exciting team again.

1. ROFL. Not really a fan of his and the only reason he "likes" us is because of his good mate Gary Ayres. Wasn't Dermie coach of the Australian Team in international rule series?????? I think he had a shocking record in that as well.

2. Yeah but he also barried them into ground by not developing young players . Its fair to say that at the end of this year we are going into somewhat of a rebuilding phase and we need a coach who is good at developing youngsters. Wallace isn't it.

 

[Mong]

Originally posted by lacrow
1. Dermott Brereton - loves the Crows and it shows in his commentary.

Only because Ayers is coach.

2. Terry Wallace - again, got A LOT out of nothing at the Western Bulldogs. I think the guy has the charisma and flair (which is something Blight had in spades) to turn the Crows into an exciting team again.

Wallace doesn't seem to have a lot of fans on this board but I, for one, think he would be a great coach to have. I don't know think he'd be my absolute first choice but I'd happily have him.

Didn't have the greatest teams at the Bulldogs but they always played hard and were very competitive and always won more games than I thought they were capable of. Have a look at the year before Wallace arrived and the year after he left.

His detractors point to his prelim finals records but he was very unlucky in 97 and he didn't have the best teams. And remember Blight had a few failed finals campaigns before some tiume off and then a successful return.

I believe Wallace is primed for some success after a couple of years looking from the outside. He should've learned a thing or two and I think he will probably come back a better coach.


****

 

[maccas_no1]

Originally posted by lacrow
OK, here's my stab at this:

1. Dermott Brereton - loves the Crows and it shows in his commentary. Plus, I like a lot of the things he has to say when commentating and think he has a good football brain. (but then, I don't have the extensive experience as some of the natives on this board do).

2. Terry Wallace - again, got A LOT out of nothing at the Western Bulldogs. I think the guy has the charisma and flair (which is something Blight had in spades) to turn the Crows into an exciting team again.

3. ??? Dunno.... Andrew Jarman maybe?

1. Like someone said no sure he would take a pay cut to come to Adelaide, he may but I also think he would coach Hawthorn before Adelaide.

2. Terry Wallace is a very real possiblity and would be happy if he was coaching the AFC has good idea's and knows how to get a side playing fast hard and attacking footy

3. In one word NO

Ideally Shaun Rehn is my pick

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by naughty monkey
and then all we need to do is change the yellow to white and your life would be complete?

Nah, I love the Crows jumper to much to ever want to change it. I'd also love to see some more Centrals boys at the Crows - Cam Faulkner and Elijah Ware would be a good start.

As for some other suggestons on this board.

Dermie - no experience in coaching a footy club so, No. Same for Lyon.
Wallace - not a good recruiter, too defensive, will not leave Vic.
Eade - stated some time ago not interested.
Freddy and Bones - no. Not good at SANFL level and ran us into the ground between 94 - 96.
Rehn - needs more time at SANFL level. Interested to see how they handle this year. Rehn may be a good coach but Westies aint known for being a good club (on field) on a regular basis. He'll need some time to wipe out the inconsistant Westies of old. If he can do that, thats a hell of a feat.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Jerome
I'd also love to see some more Centrals boys at the Crows - Cam Faulkner

I'll second that particular choice .

Bit harsh on Rehny. Admitedly this is a big year for him but seriously the likes of Woosha, Connelly and Roos never head a head coaching job but are pretty good coaches in their own right.

Personally I think Rehny will make one hell of an AFL coach. Who ever gets him will be very fortunate.

 

[spindoctor]

Terry Wallace is a big no-no. He was the originator of the Port Power gameplan - the Bulldogs basically played the same short chipping game in the late 90s, and also found that it fell apart under the pressure of the finals, despite dominating during the season.

Port have been playing under Wallace's gameplan and failed as well.

And after those failures, confidence in the Bulldogs evaporated, their form went south and Wallace was shunted out the door.

Much the same as might happen at Port soon if they choke again.

No to Wallace.

Yes to Rehn. Take a punt, I don't care if he is inexperienced.

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I'll second that particular choice .

Bit harsh on Rehny.

Not at all. I've said he's a good coach. Its the culture of the club he's coaching that I'm questioning not Rehn.

If he can turn that around it will be huge plus for his career and his club. It should be very interesting to see how the Bloods go this year.

 

[DaveW]

I'd prefer to see Rehn graduate to an AFL assistant coaching role first.

I have my doubts about him.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by spindoctor


And after those failures, confidence in the Bulldogs evaporated, their form went south and Wallace was shunted out the door.

No to Wallace.

Yes to Rehn. Take a punt, I don't care if he is inexperienced.

I don't think that's totally correct about Wallace being shunted out the door.

My memory is that Smorgan carried on like a pork chop when Wallace announced that he wasn't going to coach the Bullies in 2003, because it was suspected that a deal had been done for wallace to coach Sydney. They were so miffed about it that he was told not to come to the B&F awards if I remember corrrectly.

I'm one of those who think he did a great job with very limited talent, and was also a very good game day coach. The two years out of the game might just take him to a new level as it did with Blighty and Matthews.

My biggest thing against him is that ghastly squeaking high-pitched voice that he has. Not sure that I could put up with that every week!!!

 

[Damp Squarie]

Originally posted by macca23
Sorry TJ, but we will all season, unless we finish top 4.

Ayres won't get off the hook with one win.

He's stated that we have the personnel to be top 4. I happen to agree with that, but I doubt that we will achieve it through a variety of things such as

Poor gameplan

Player mismatches.

Poor positional placements.

Poor moves or his specialty - no moves.

Poor Bas ****

Hed be bleedin in side at the moment

If it becomes evident that we wont make the 8 by round 11 Id like to think he'll throw the young tyros into the cauldron.

Theyve just got to get exposure before Ayres is shot at dawn

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Jerome
Not at all. I've said he's a good coach. Its the culture of the club he's coaching that I'm questioning not Rehn.

If he can turn that around it will be huge plus for his career and his club. It should be very interesting to see how the Bloods go this year.

I think you make a very good point. Westies are a bit of an enigma. If Rehny can turn that around and drill them into a hard consistent outfit he will no doubt be a wanted man in AFL circles.

It will be a real tought year for Rehny and he will show his true colors this year. He had a bloody good nucleus to build on from last year but he lost 8 players from the GF side. Most of them were drafted by an AFL club.

If Westies can still be a very competative team Rehny would have done a very good job.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by DaveW
I'd prefer to see Rehn graduate to an AFL assistant coaching role first.

I have my doubts about him.

I'm with you on this one. As a general rule AFL coaches should come through the AFL system so that they're prepared for it when they start their first senior coaching job - not try to learn it as they go along.

As for Rehn, I'm a long way from being convinced about him yet either. One swallow doesn't make a summer.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by macca23
My biggest thing against him is that ghastly squeaking high-pitched voice that he has. Not sure that I could put up with that every week!!!

Maybe you guys can get Stephen Kernahan as an assistant and he can do the media wrangling. Problem solved.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Porthos
Maybe you guys can get Stephen Kernahan as an assistant and he can do the media wrangling. Problem solved.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Porthos
Maybe you guys can get Stephen Kernahan as an assistant and he can do the media wrangling. Problem solved.

I nearly wet myself visualizing that!!

Classic stuff!!

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by naughty monkey
most coaches who go on to win premierships do so in their first 4 years as a head coach. Ayres has been around how long without success?



No, if I was an Essendon supporter I wouldn't be at all worried about Saturday. There are some major differences between Essendon and Adelaide so far this year. Just in case you weren't aware I'll point out my observations for you...

Essendon have shown some very good form in the ps but they lost an away game to a team that virtually everyone thinks will figure prominently in the 8 this year with some key personnel missing.

Compare that to Adelaide.
No ps form to speak of at all. As you have previously pointed out, winning or losing in ps is irrelevant. But the way you do it isn't, and Adelaide have looked shocking, no exceptions. Then they get pantsed by a team most people think will miss the 8, with only one key person missing. And that is someone the club has already resigned itself to that will never play again.

Surely you can't deny there has been a very disturbing trend in recent matches stretching back to the last quarter of last season in the gameplan, and even the players attitude.

You are right in that the players need to take some responsibility for their attitude and performance from Sunday, but the real question is why have their attitudes changed so dramatically in that period (along with their performance)?

The only other thing I can see that is markedly different over that time frame is the gameplan. And that is solely the coaches doing.

Do you agree or not? Your thoughts please

I think most coaches win premierships within 4 years of starting (presuming that's the case) because you don't get too many chances at it, and if you're good enough and the team is good enough and you don't win - you don't have a job that much longer. Mark Williams is hanging on by the skin of his teeth.

I think gameplan is far too overemphasised as a manner of adding science into what you can't always impact. That is basic effort and accountability, if you win your position, and your teammates follow then the result takes care of itself.
Certainly match up's, and basic ideology have an impact, but thats at the margins.
Remember how flooding was ruining the game, and Pagan's paddock was indefensible, trends change and systems get worked out. This tells us that 1. it is good to be innovative, and 2. that the overall impact is limited, over anything more than the short term.

I once read a quote about american sports, that was along the lines of " a large part of the fun of supporting a team is relating to the players, and imagining that we could do a better job than the managers and coaches, it makes it interactive, though we should never forget that this is intrinsically not true" or words to that effect. The reason I bring that up, is that gameplans and matchup's can be wrong, and Ayres is certainly stubborn - especially with the media, but there are many people inputting, ideas being discussed questioned etc. that unless we know precisely what the actual gameplan is, as preached by the coaching staff we can't really know what is failed execution and what is flawed in conception. the same goes with matchup's, it's all good and well saying tommy smith should be moved onto/off freddy bloggs, but we don't really know how that impacts the overall strategy on the ground that everyone has worked on all week. Is tommy injured, is it good for the lad to know he has the coach's confidence, is there anyone likely to do better, is it judged that supply has to stop earlier, not really on tommy to clean up? all sorts of things, and if we're not in the box it's hard to know.

One of the main job's of the coach is to prepare the team, and if the coach fails at that it's a real concern. but weren't we up half way through the 2nd quarter? I would suggest that the preparation then wasn't the issue - why did the players stopping running? there is a school of thought, one that was the end of top matchday coaches like Rodney Eade, that a coaches' job is 95% done by the time the match rolls around. I am of that opinion.

I agree the PS is worthless, especially for judging some players - how can you judge a tagger's form in the PS, no one tags in the PS. Equally I agree that it's given at the club that a fast start is the way to setup a season, and we have been poor so far. I do note there has been some concern with our fade out at the end of last year, and perhaps there is a stayer's mentality in our preparation that has gone wrong. The exact thing that a coach should be blamed for, along with his staff but it is far too early to judge yet.

As for essendon, good teams do not lose to anyone by 100 points, or 75 points for that matter!

Back to premiership coaches and why I would be loathe to appoint a untried guy.
When was the last time a non-established coach won a premiership? A guy who wasn't already well and truly considered an elite coach?
I suggest it was Leigh Matthew in 1990, who has gone on to now be considered an elite coach. before that Allan Joyce, and look at the Hawthorn team he was handed.

We might get lucky, but consider how many coaches have come and gone in the last ten years, and how bright their lustre was at various times. Unless we unearth a new elite coach in the making ala Pagan or Matthews, we are tieing one hand behind our back. Now you could argue Ayres hasn't won anything, but he is now a 10 year coach who has had a lot of success at 2 clubs, and we have to be sure we are getting someone better.

At the end of the year it might be time for a change, but a couple of untried's isn't an improvement to me.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by lacrow
OK, here's my stab at this:

1. Dermott Brereton - loves the Crows and it shows in his commentary. Plus, I like a lot of the things he has to say when commentating and think he has a good football brain. (but then, I don't have the extensive experience as some of the natives on this board do).

2. Terry Wallace - again, got A LOT out of nothing at the Western Bulldogs. I think the guy has the charisma and flair (which is something Blight had in spades) to turn the Crows into an exciting team again.

3. ??? Dunno.... Andrew Jarman maybe?

Spot on, Dermie has been considered the brightest mind not coaching for years, he was Carlton's first choice AHEAD of pagan. The deal was that Allen Jeans could be his assistant while he learnt the ropes, and so he could continue in the media.
he turned it down. One day his ego will have him cross the line, though he might just like all the speculation on how good he would be.

I think Wallace would be an inspired choice, and would be shocked if the club hadn't at least considered him.

Jarman, 2 out 3 isn't bad.

Lyon could be good or he could be Tim Watson.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
Now you could argue Ayres hasn't won anything, but he is now a 10 year coach who has had a lot of success at 2 clubs, and we have to be sure we are getting someone better.

At the end of the year it might be time for a change, but a couple of untried's isn't an improvement to me.

I agree with that totally. If we do decide to get rid of Ayres at the end of the year, that decision can and should only be made if there is an appropriate candidate, and that could not be one that was a total gamble.

If Adelaide were to be talking of Terry Wallace, then I would be all for it, in spite of that horrific squeaky voice of his. He has already proven that he can milk performance out of ordinary players and is a good game day coach. I think after the 2 years off he is the type that could come back even better as did Blight and Matthews.

On the other hand, I would much rather retain Ayres than gamble on a raw SANFL coach such as Rehn.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
I think most coaches win premierships within 4 years of starting (presuming that's the case) because you don't get too many chances at it, and if you're good enough and the team is good enough and you don't win - you don't have a job that much longer. Mark Williams is hanging on by the skin of his teeth.

And there's a reason why mediocre coaches don't last long.

Back to premiership coaches and why I would be loathe to appoint a untried guy.
When was the last time a non-established coach won a premiership?A guy who wasn't already well and truly considered an elite coach?
I suggest it was Leigh Matthew in 1990, who has gone on to now be considered an elite coach. before that Allan Joyce, and look at the Hawthorn team he was handed.

Denis Pagan, 1996.

Since then its been Blight, Pagan, Sheedy and Matthews.

Ayres patently isn't in their class. They had all had far, far more success than Ayres in their first 9-10 years.

And that's why I want a brand new coach for 2005. Because Blight, Pagan, Sheedy and Matthews weren't just recycled duds from other clubs (which the likes of Ayres, Wallace, Eade et al are), but guys who consistently put their teams into grand finals and achieved premiership glory.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by DaveW
And that's why I want a brand new coach for 2005. Because Blight, Pagan, Sheedy and Matthews weren't just recycled duds from other clubs (which the likes of Ayres, Wallace, Eade et al are), but guys who consistently put their teams into grand finals and achieved premiership glory.

The theory's good Dave, but what's his name??

 

[Stiffy_18]

I am not sure I can understand people here who say that we need a change and should look for someone else but the new coach has to be experienced.

Who is out there available that is a better coach that Ayres?????? I don't think Blighty will ever coach again after the St. Kilda episode. Malthouse, Matthews and Pagan are unavailable. Sheedy is out of a contract but it would be very unlikely that he would come to Adelaide and if he did it would be a short fix. The bloke won't coach for too much longer.

Eade is not a better coach than Ayres and Wallace is not the greatest of choices considering we will enter the rebuilding phase. Wallace got the best out of his players but lets face it his record of developing and brining along youngsters is not all that flash.

Now please tell me who would you pick to replace Ayres?????? Majority of us agree that its time for change but none of us want to bite the bullet and say who is it of the experienced coaches that we want. Each one of those premiership coaches had to start somewhere.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I am not sure I can understand people here who say that we need a change and should look for someone else but the new coach has to be experienced.

Who is out there available that is a better coach that Ayres?????? I don't think Blighty will ever coach again after the St. Kilda episode. Malthouse, Matthews and Pagan are unavailable. Sheedy is out of a contract but it would be very unlikely that he would come to Adelaide and if he did it would be a short fix. The bloke won't coach for too much longer.

Eade is not a better coach than Ayres and Wallace is not the greatest of choices considering we will enter the rebuilding phase. Wallace got the best out of his players but lets face it his record of developing and brining along youngsters is not all that flash.

Now please tell me who would you pick to replace Ayres?????? Majority of us agree that its time for change but none of us want to bite the bullet and say who is it of the experienced coaches that we want. Each one of those premiership coaches had to start somewhere.

I agree the facts not your conclusion, I am not sure there is a better more experienced coach than Ayres out there - though I would be very tempted by Terry Wallace.

If you don't get someone better, you don't change. an untried coach is unlikely to better than Ayres.

Are we asking for change for change's sake?

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
I agree the facts not your conclusion, I am not sure there is a better more experienced coach than Ayres out there - though I would be very tempted by Terry Wallace.

If you don't get someone better, you don't change. an untried coach is unlikely to better than Ayres.

Are we asking for change for change's sake?

I agree that as far as experienced coaches go there is probably no one better out there than Ayres.

I wouldn't be tempted by Wallace for the reason I mentioned in my post above. His track record in brining along and developing youngsters is not that flash and to be honest neither is Ayres'. Considering that a lot of our stars are approaching the end of their careers in a couple of years time we need a coach who is good at developing youngsters and can actually coach come match day. It would also be very handy if he can be a bit more imaginative and pull a couple of moves that win us games.

Can someone tell me how much different is it if you are a full time coach at AFL level or at SANFL level?????? Apart from having better players and resources there isn't much because footy is a simple game. If you have footy brains you will outcoach a lot of coaches.

Sometimes the change is as good as a holiday. Ayres has coached for how long now?????? He has been in the game as a coach for a long time and he is on the verge of breaking a record that no coach wants to break and that not winning a premiership in X amount of games he has coached in. Gary Ayres was a a reserves coach at Geelong before he got a gig in the AFL. How is that different to someone like Shaun Rehn or Peter Jonas??????

Each one of these coaches were inexperienced when they got their first gig at AFL level.

Someone like Peter Jonas has a very impressive resume. He is a premiership coach with Central Districts, he has been U18s coach for the state and is assistant coach with Sydney under Roos. Wasn't he also part of our coaching staff in one or both premiership years??????

Someone like that is worth getting. You said that an untried coach is unlikely to better than Ayres. Would you say that Woosha is a better coach than Ayres?????? Would you say that Roos is a better coach than Ayres??????


Sometimes a change is as good as a holiday.