Who should replace Michael O’Brien as Victorian Liberal leader?

[Ned_Flanders]

It's been proven to work over the last two decades of election cycles.

Why announce policy years out from an election, just for NewsCorp and Fairfax to attack?

small target politics doesnt mean you dont develop policy, it means you dont release it

 

[Johnny Bananas]

when good policy is rejected because you dont want the govt to get a win, you have bad opposition. if small target politics means zero policy development, you have bad opposition. when preselection is about solidifying powerbrokers power bases over finding tomorrows leaders, you have bad opposition.

I agree. And on this subject, I wanted to address the next post too:

It's been proven to work over the last two decades of election cycles.

Why announce policy years out from an election, just for NewsCorp and Fairfax to attack?

I wonder if it really has been proven to work. Rudd didn't present a small target and he won. Many people will point to Shorten as an example of not presenting a small target and losing, but Shorten had no charisma and failed to sell his policies properly.

I look at policy from Opposition as being a gamble. When done well it can be very persuasive to the electorate, but done badly, it loses elections. The thing is, sometimes you have to gamble in order to win, especially if the incumbent government is not utterly repulsive to the electorate. Zak Kirkup realised this, even though he was just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, and his policies were shown to be inadequately costed.

I think Federal Labor are being cowardly on the policy front. Combine that with Albo seeming to have lost all the charisma he showed a decade ago, and there's no compelling reason to vote for them unless you despise Scummo and his government. Until now that hasn't been an issue, since Scummo has had good approval ratings, but maybe their response to the sexual assault shame will cost them among women. I can't help but think that card would be even stronger with a woman as leader however.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

The pay is pretty ordinary.

$180k per annum only really topped up for shadow ministers and leaders by about $20k. So you get $200k and not great job security.

Any "Good People" with managerial and life experience (i.e. over 40yo) are already making probably nearly that and taking time out to join a political party, campaign, have their life torn apart and still maybe lose just isn't worth it.

This is acutely felt in swing seats.

In safe seats, you get whoever works the party system better. So Unionist lawyers or silver-spooners, hardly people with relevant life experience similar to the rest of the state.

anyone going into politics takes a pay cut

its a public service, not a gravy train for personal benefit

 

[Saint]

anyone going into politics takes a pay cut

its a public service, not a gravy train for personal benefit

Except that it's run by people who are there for the gravy train. Do you think Abbott or Morrison are in politics as a public service? Or because they've never had a job other than politics?

The people there for public service don't tend to last too long or get very far.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Except that it's run by people who are there for the gravy train. Do you think Abbott or Morrison are in politics as a public service? Or because they've never had a job other than politics?

The people there for public service don't tend to last too long or get very far.

and thats a recent issue, costello and howard could have earnt a shitload more in the private sector but they chose not to. we get the politicians we deserve

 

[Doss]

anyone going into politics takes a pay cut

its a public service, not a gravy train for personal benefit

Also, $180k a year is hardly chicken feed.

 

[Saint]

and thats a recent issue, costello and howard could have earnt a shitload more in the private sector but they chose not to. we get the politicians we deserve

Costello is earning more now as a result of his being Treasurer for so long. Had he remained in law, he'd be earning plenty but not as much as he's earning as the head of the Future Fund and a bunch of other boards which all stem from his political connections.

Howard wasn't even a particularly good lawyer and did it for less than a decade before his first job as campaign manager for the LNP, then spent 30 years on the teat as a parliamentarian. Now still on the teat doing nothing just drawing his super/pension in the hundreds of thousands a year.

Frydenberg makes $400k+ as treasurer not including the super and travel perks afforded to them.

Morrison failed at everything. Even the LNP sacked him from his job in Tourism.

And the Vic LNP under O'Brien are even worse failures than him. Wilson and Newbury are nobodies with little to no experience.

 

[Saint]

Also, $180k a year is hardly chicken feed.

Do you think you could maintain a family home in Brighton or Kew and raise a family on that wage?

 

[Doss]

Do you think you could maintain a family home in Brighton or Kew and raise a family on that wage?

Brighton or Kew? Maybe not.

They’re also two of the most expensive suburbs in Melbourne, though.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Costello is earning more now as a result of his being Treasurer for so long. Had he remained in law, he'd be earning plenty but not as much as he's earning as the head of the Future Fund and a bunch of other boards which all stem from his political connections.

Howard wasn't even a particularly good lawyer and did it for less than a decade before his first job as campaign manager for the LNP, then spent 30 years on the teat as a parliamentarian. Now still on the teat doing nothing just drawing his super/pension in the hundreds of thousands a year.

Frydenberg makes $400k+ as treasurer not including the super and travel perks afforded to them.

Morrison failed at everything. Even the LNP sacked him from his job in Tourism.

And the Vic LNP under O'Brien are even worse failures than him. Wilson and Newbury are nobodies with little to no experience.

costello was the lawyer who was the star of the dollar sweets case - he had a massive career ahead of him repping the big end of town

howards skills would have been used elsewhere, he was clearly better than being a suburban lawyer

people want surface now, stop the boats, lock her up, and so on. people chose to reject good people for the shallow peeps we have today

 

[Johnny Bananas]

people want surface now, stop the boats, lock her up, and so on. people chose to reject good people for the shallow peeps we have today

True. I wonder what would be needed to change this trend in the minds of the public. It's tempting to blame Murdoch for everything and imagine things will improve after he finally kicks the bucket, but the influence of his media will continue long after the last paper rolls off the presses and Sky News has its last broadcast.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

True. I wonder what would be needed to change this trend in the minds of the public. It's tempting to blame Murdoch for everything and imagine things will improve after he finally kicks the bucket, but the influence of his media will continue long after the last paper rolls off the presses and Sky News has its last broadcast.

its not murdoch, its the fact we want simple solutions to complex problems

 

[Saint]

its not murdoch, its the fact we want simple solutions to complex problems

Murdoch and 160 character tweets do promote the idea that simple solutions to complex problems are possible. It's the nature of trying to understand complex problems most people will never know enough about to pass a decent judgement.

 

[Saint]

costello was the lawyer who was the star of the dollar sweets case - he had a massive career ahead of him repping the big end of town

howards skills would have been used elsewhere, he was clearly better than being a suburban lawyer

people want surface now, stop the boats, lock her up, and so on. people chose to reject good people for the shallow peeps we have today

He's making nearly a million a year as Chairman of Nine and on the board of the Future Fund.

And you can probably double that for his role at BKK Partners.

I'd say he's earning more now than as a partner at a law firm.

No chance would he take such a pay cut to be premier.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Murdoch and 160 character tweets do promote the idea that simple solutions to complex problems are possible. It's the nature of trying to understand complex problems most people will never know enough about to pass a decent judgement.

It predates Twitter

 

[Ned_Flanders]

He's making nearly a million a year as Chairman of Nine and on the board of the Future Fund.

And you can probably double that for his role at BKK Partners.

I'd say he's earning more now than as a partner at a law firm.

No chance would he take such a pay cut to be premier.

Link to where I said he would be running for premier

 

[Not Important]

anyone going into politics takes a pay cut

its a public service, not a gravy train for personal benefit

not sure about that ned. many of them would be hard pressed to be on the earner they get from politics elsewhere. rumoured abbott is on a lifetime pension of $300k.

i'd like to see a limit of two terms. enough time to make an impact. and a super scheme no better than the average punter.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

not sure about that ned. many of them would be hard pressed to be on the earner they get from politics elsewhere. rumoured abbott is on a lifetime pension of $300k.

i'd like to see a limit of two terms. enough time to make an impact. and a super scheme no better than the average punter.

and why is that? because parties are pre-selecting those most likely to be elected, who are the petri dish deep garbage

want to improve the quality of poli's? dont vote out people who say "i dont know" or "thats not an easy answer"

 

[Not Important]

and why is that? because parties are pre-selecting those most likely to be elected, who are the petri dish deep garbage

want to improve the quality of poli's? dont vote out people who say "i dont know" or "thats not an easy answer"

electability is a major consideration. more so in tight contests than blue ribbon seats. party connections. knowing influential people. knowing how to use the system etc too

 

[Ned_Flanders]

electability is a major consideration. more so in tight contests than blue ribbon seats. party connections. knowing influential people. knowing how to use the system etc too

its actually more complicated than that

marginal seats are NOT popular for candidates. outside a dedicated local, they are often only attractive to party ladder climbers who see it as paying their dues for a proper run in a safe seat

the odd ones are when you get the wave results like WA and Vic. thats when you get the suicide bombers in. these are the peeps who run against a safe seat, knowing they have zero chance of success. they are often the true believers, the ones who believe in the party, the cause, and the process, and are happy to tilt at a windmill because they want people to hear the other side. When these peeps get in, you often get some surprises talentwise.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

Journos must read and note BF. Or did 'Drewie' pass it on to one of his political masters? Either way, it's the last time I offer a suggestion to those also-rans.

‘Come back and lead’? Not quite, but Pesutto wants more than just a comeback

John Pesutto would have gone for Liberal leadership if he didn’t lose his seat of Hawthorn on live TV in 2018. Now, he’s confirmed he wants to be an MP again and doesn’t want to stop there.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Doss]

Pesutto was more impressive than Guy, O’Brien, Smith and every other knob of theirs put together.

Would actually be a genuine asset for them if he came back.

 

[andrewmillman]

Journos must read and note BF. Or did 'Drewie' pass it on to one of his political masters? Either way, it's the last time I offer a suggestion to those also-rans.

‘Come back and lead’? Not quite, but Pesutto wants more than just a comeback

John Pesutto would have gone for Liberal leadership if he didn’t lose his seat of Hawthorn on live TV in 2018. Now, he’s confirmed he wants to be an MP again and doesn’t want to stop there.

www.theage.com.au

Yeah Chrissy was meaning to thank you. The lads back at 257 Collins thought this was a killer idea.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Pesutto was more impressive than Guy, O’Brien, Smith and every other knob of theirs put together.

Would actually be a genuine asset for them if he came back.

Yep, he's the length of the Flemington straight ahead of O'Brien and Smith