Opinion Who was the superior player Simon Black or Lachie Neale?

[3KZ is Football]

Murph

Loved Murph. Loved Wokka. But they both left. Wokka came back, but it was too late.

 

[Section 5]

At the moment Black for me.
However, in a couple of years maybe Neale

 

[Son of Superboot]

Loved Murph. Loved Wokka. But they both left. Wokka came back, but it was too late.

Where would you rate Garry Wilson? He was my childhood hero, and I proudly had the "29" on my duffle coat.

 

[p4p1]

As of right now it's Black but Lachie is that good he could surpass him with another flag I reckon.

Black should have won the 2008 Brownlow IMO and came second in 2007 as well. He was always up there.

For me Simon Black is one of the best players I've ever seen live, if he played in Melbourne he would have been more highly regarded. Didn't help that he also played in a stacked team.

I'm not denying that Black may have been better but to bring up Brownlow finishes doesn't support your argument and probably goes the other way hurting it. Lachie won twice, Cartlon's lawyers robbed him of a 3rd, then add a 3rd in 2019.

Both would be more highly regarded if they played for a Vic team or even if they were just Victorian IMO.

 

[p4p1]

Lachie is a premiership captain with a good but lesser overall group there to support him. Voss took a lot of heat off Black in terms of tags. You can't compare Dunkley, McCluggage etc to the fab 4. They are awesome but not the gods of old, Lachie just.

So did Aker.
I think with the emergence of Washy as well as Clugg, Lachie could have a bit more freedom than before. Sydney clamped down on Clugg in the GF IIRC rather than Neale. A couple of years ago the only guy getting tagged would have been Neale.

 

[p4p1]

It's splitting hairs.
On individual accomplishment it is fair to say Neale:
2 x Brownlow (should've been 3x)
1 x MVP
1 x AFLCA (I don't think this awarded during Blacky's prime)
6 x BnF (2 x Doig, 4 x Merrett Murray)
4 x All Australian (Should be 5 with 2023)

Compared to Black:
1 x Brownlow
1 x NS
3 x All Australian
3 x BnF

Neale's 2016 season at Fremantle was huge. He should have polled better. Averaged 33 disposals a game, with 8 clearences per game. Backed it up in 2018. If playing for a Melbourne team he absolutely would have made the AA team in both years (and 2023) IMO.

Having said all that, I grew up idolising Blacky, he was my 3rd fav behind Vossy and DJ White, I even learnt how to do the one handed bounce in the wet that he used to do. So I can't pick between them but I think that might be because of my own bias.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Where would you rate Garry Wilson? He was my childhood hero, and I proudly had the "29" on my duffle coat.

Greatest Fitzroy player in my lifetime and equal with Haydn Bunton as the greatest “Rover” in club history. He really one of the first “modern footballers.” The four greatest Fitzroy players of all time in my mind are Bunton, Murray, Wilson and Quinlan. I was blessed to see the last three play on many occasions. Admittedly Murray was in the twilight of his career, but remember, he won the Brownlow in 1969, having played his first season well before my time, in 1955. Just let that feat sink in. As for Wilson and Quinlan, I saw them play hundreds of games.

Back Line	Bill Stephen​	Fred Hughson​	Frank Curico​
Half Back Line	Kevin Murray (c)​	Paul Roos​	Gary Pert​
Centre Line	Wilfred Smallhorn​	John Murphy​	Warwick Irwin​
Half Forward Line	Owen Abrahams​	Bernie Quinlan​	Gary Wilson (vc)​
Forward Line	Allan Ruthven​	Jack Moriarty​	Norm Brown​
Followers	Alan Gale​	Norm Johnstone​	Haydn Bunton​
Interchange	Michael Conlan​	Alaistar Lynch​	Harvey Merrigan​
	Richard Osborne​	Percy Parratt​	Percy Trotter​
Coach	Len Smith​	​

Team of the Century leaders reunite

Fitzroy champion Garry Wilson will join Kevin Murray at the Lions' next match-day function in Victoria.

www.lions.com.au

 

[3KZ is Football]

For the statistically minded.

AFL Tables - Haydn Bunton - Stats - Statistics

AFL Tables - Kevin Murray - Stats - Statistics

AFL Tables - Garry Wilson - Stats - Statistics

AFL Tables - Bernie Quinlan - Stats - Statistics

AFL Tables - Simon Black - Stats - Statistics

AFL Tables - Lachie Neale - Stats - Statistics

 

[Toffee Lion]

I'm not denying that Black may have been better but to bring up Brownlow finishes doesn't support your argument and probably goes the other way hurting it. Lachie won twice, Cartlon's lawyers robbed him of a 3rd, then add a 3rd in 2019.

Both would be more highly regarded if they played for a Vic team or even if they were just Victorian IMO.

Depends on what you value more, Brownlows (individual awards alike) or flags? I value flags more, of which it's 3 to 1.

Agree that Lachie should have 3 Brownlows, in the same vain that I honestly think Simon should have 2. So not a lot changes in my mind.

I think it's easy to get sucked into stats/awards etc but on pure eye watch, it's Blacky for me. His silkiness in possesion, calmness, in & under clearances, proficiency by foot. Lachie has a lot of similar qualities and plays in an era where numbers are more inflated, which helps him but I'd still go Blacky.

I will say for Lachie, he is in solo company of being the best the Lions have had that didn't play in the golden era. He is in the conversation with club legends such as Voss/Black, which is a testament to such an amazing club servant. Love Choc.

Edit: Also I am biased growing up watching Blacky play, I think a younger more modern Lions fan would go Neale based on the stats etc. and I don't think saying Neale is objectively wrong, it's splitting it between the two.

 

[lionshine]

It's splitting hairs.
On individual accomplishment it is fair to say Neale:
2 x Brownlow (should've been 3x)
1 x MVP
1 x AFLCA (I don't think this awarded during Blacky's prime)
6 x BnF (2 x Doig, 4 x Merrett Murray)
4 x All Australian (Should be 5 with 2023)

Compared to Black:
1 x Brownlow
1 x NS
3 x All Australian
3 x BnF

Neale's 2016 season at Fremantle was huge. He should have polled better. Averaged 33 disposals a game, with 8 clearences per game. Backed it up in 2018. If playing for a Melbourne team he absolutely would have made the AA team in both years (and 2023) IMO.

Having said all that, I grew up idolising Blacky, he was my 3rd fav behind Vossy and DJ White, I even learnt how to do the one handed bounce in the wet that he used to do. So I can't pick between them but I think that might be because of my own bias.

Black was robbed of AA’s though. Don’t quote me on this because I haven’t bothered to check but solely on memory, in 2007 & 2008 he finished 2nd in the Brownlow but didn’t make the AA team either year.

 

[Lazza16]

Where would you rate Garry Wilson? He was my childhood hero, and I proudly had the "29" on my duffle coat.

Gazza up there with the best but more a genuine rover.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Gazza up there with the best but more a genuine rover.

Wilson also had the happy knack of hitting the scoreboard. He averaged 1.69 goals a game over a 268 game career.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Garry Wilson’s TOP GOAL KICKING BAGS were
7 Goals (twice)
6 Goals (three times)
5 Goals (five occasions)
4 Goals (nineteen games)
3 Goals (thirty six games)

In his 268 game career Wilson failed to score a goal in only 65 games and I’m forgiving him for Round 1, 1979 against Collingwood, when Ron Wearmouth ‘coat hangered’ him in the first quarter and he was stretchered of after losing consciousness. Probably cost Wilson the Brownlow that year.

I’ll never forget Wilson’s courage and skill. Happy days hey Lazza16.



At this game. Some standout play from Wilson. We were stiff.

I’d love to see Lachie Neale hitting the scoreboard a bit more this year. That would elevate him to all time great status in my book and probably give him the edge over Simon Black.

 

[martinson]

Garry Wilson’s TOP GOAL KICKING BAGS were
7 Goals (twice)
6 Goals (three times)
5 Goals (five occasions)
4 Goals (nineteen games)
3 Goals (thirty six games)

In his 268 game career Wilson failed to score a goal in only 65 games and I’m forgiving him for Round 1, 1979 against Collingwood, when Ron Wearmouth ‘coat hangered’ him in the first quarter and he was stretchered of after losing consciousness. Probably cost Wilson the Brownlow that year.

I’ll never forget Wilson’s courage and skill. Happy days hey Lazza16.

I’d love to see Lachie Neale hitting the scoreboard a bit more this year. That would elevate him to all time great status in my book and probably give him the edge over Simon Black.

Flea played in an era where the opposition set out to bash him to stop him.

In today's era he would be unstoppable . I'm not one of those who romance past players (I don't think) above their capacities but haven't seen two players in our colours with the skill sets Flea and Bernie had.

Aker's in the conversation in terms of skill but he was more an individual than a team player.

Vossy pre the broken leg was as pure a dominant physical skilful player as you'd ever see and played bone on bone knee for his last few years.

Of today's players Neale is the only one in that conversation but the game has changed radically where it's more a game of tactics ,fitness and the team working together so players are developed, trained and have different roles than anyone could have imagined in the 70's and 80's. So overall comparisons aren't valid.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Flea played in an era where the opposition set out to bash him to stop him.

In today's era he would be unstoppable . I'm not one of those who romance past players (I don't think) above their capacities but haven't seen two players in our colours with the skill sets Flea and Bernie had.

Aker's in the conversation in terms of skill but he was more an individual than a team player.

Vossy pre the broken leg was as pure a dominant physical skilful player as you'd ever see and played bone on bone knee for his last few years.

Of today's players Neale is the only one in that conversation but the game has changed radically where it's more a game of tactics ,fitness and the team working together so players are developed, trained and have different roles than anyone could have imagined in the 70's and 80's. So overall comparisons aren't valid.

On Garry Wilson.

"In today's era he would be unstoppable."
martinson

 

[martinson]

On Garry Wilson.

"In today's era he would be unstoppable."
martinson

Gerard Healey said he was the best player he ever played against. He tells the story of the time he had him corralled on the wing and thought I've got you this time you little....Wilson turns back into play with Healy about to monster him and instinctively handballs the ball to a shocked Healey, tackles him a gets a free for htb. Healy said I just shooks me head.

It was a shame how Wilson used to get physically punished every week but for the most part he kept on going. It wouldn't have been tolerated for 5 minutes today.

 

[p4p1]

Black was robbed of AA’s though. Don’t quote me on this because I haven’t bothered to check but solely on memory, in 2007 & 2008 he finished 2nd in the Brownlow but didn’t make the AA team either year.

Definitely, players outside of Victoria who aren't Victorian have a harder time getting into the AA team. Both Lachie and Matt Pridis (off the top of my head) weren't selected in years they won Brownlows.
Being an All Australian is a huge accomplishment but geez some guys have it easier to get selected. For some like, Lachie, Blacky and Fyfe, if they don't make the top 3 mids then they're no chance, for others like Danger, Martin, Buckley, to name a few, get selected out of position so that they are in the team.

 

[Saucery]

Flea played in an era where the opposition set out to bash him to stop him.

In today's era he would be unstoppable . I'm not one of those who romance past players (I don't think) above their capacities but haven't seen two players in our colours with the skill sets Flea and Bernie had.

Aker's in the conversation in terms of skill but he was more an individual than a team player.

Vossy pre the broken leg was as pure a dominant physical skilful player as you'd ever see and played bone on bone knee for his last few years.

Of today's players Neale is the only one in that conversation but the game has changed radically where it's more a game of tactics ,fitness and the team working together so players are developed, trained and have different roles than anyone could have imagined in the 70's and 80's. So overall comparisons aren't valid.

Do you even Big Footy? Invalid comparisons is our meat and 3 veg

 

[3KZ is Football]

Gerard Healey said he was the best player he ever played against. He tells the story of the time he had him corralled on the wing and thought I've got you this time you little....Wilson turns back into play with Healy about to monster him and instinctively handballs the ball to a shocked Healey, tackles him a gets a free for htb. Healy said I just shooks me head.

It was a shame how Wilson used to get physically punished every week but for the most part he kept on going. It wouldn't have been tolerated for 5 minutes today.

Go to 4 minutes and 10 seconds into this fantastic interview to see Graeme Teasdale belt Garry Wilson in one of the cheapest and weakest dog acts I have witnessed. This is the sort of stuff Wilson had to put up with. Teasdale got 5 weeks suspension.



Thank goodness this behaviour is largely eradicated from the game at the highest level.

 

[Zhesty]

Simon Black

 

[LionsOrDieTrion]

Black purely because you couldn’t tag him. Neale has been tagged out of a decent amount of games.

 

[western royboy]

It’s a tough call, like picking a favourite child.

But to go and watch Simon Black play was like watching Michael Holding or Shane Warne bowl or Viv Richards bat. Simplicity and perfection all in one.

 

[greendiesel]

It was a shame how Wilson used to get physically punished every week but for the most part he kept on going. It wouldn't have been tolerated for 5 minutes today.

Very true. They tried to kill him in most of his games.
I remember Damian Drum for Geelong run past the contest at the junction oval....with a deliberate elbow to Wilson's head.
Cowardly act.
Wilson got up a carried on as per usual.

 

[p4p1]

Black purely because you couldn’t tag him. Neale has been tagged out of a decent amount of games.

While I don't disagree and Lachie was certainly well held on the weekend, I do wonder if he also sacrificed a bit for the team. Obviously he doesn't want to be held to 10 touches but he may have been happy to put on blocks etc for the players who weren't getting tagged. He is no longer in a midfield where he has to do it by himself, he knows he can trust the guys around him to give us good results.

Black being a bit bigger than Lachie likely helped him with the tag as well.

 

[morsie]

This thread is ridiculous , its like trying to decide which of your children is your favourite.