Well there is an argument that they might have or might not have, but certainly it is not far better than, especially when you consider how important the need for some good players in the middle are to Richmond. Easily our biggest weakness.
Who will be better in 2023 Richmond or Brisbane?
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Laughably as usual you are presenting this as if Hawthorn stayed at the same level all those seasons and only the level of the competition around them altered. St Kilda won an abnormal amount of home and away games for a top 4 team in one season only, 2009. And part of the reason they did that is because teams like Hawthorn dropped away in that season for various reasons. There are no doubt other reasons including that the Saints struck a decent vein of form. But they clearly were not that good a team in historical terms. They did not win a Grand Final and indeed did not make a Grand Final outside of a 2 year window. They won the following amount of home and away games per season:
2008 - 13
2009 - 20
2010 - 15
2011 - 12
I wonder which year is the outlier there? Only as fool would seek to define any team or player by an outlier achievement, other than to say this is what was possible when everything fell their way, including some key opposition teams dropping away. St Kilda averaged 15 home and away wins during their 4 years in the finals which takes into account all the peaks and troughs that all teams including them had at the time. The Geelong team Richmond donkey-licked 3 times in finals 2017-2020 averaged more or less the same when you adjust for the shortened 2020 season. And in the 3 years Richmond gave Geelong a wedgy and squashed their sandwiches the Cats won no less than the “great” Saints average of 15 wins. The Cats percentages were 137, 136, 132, 117 in this 4 year phase. The Saints percentages were 111, 156, 122, 113. In other words, on average, Geelong 2017-2020 performed better than St Kilda 2008-2011 during the home and away season. Richmond smashed that Geelong team three times but you say Richmond wouldn’t have got near the Saints of that era because super team.
You are asking us to suspend normal reason for a moment and imagine this team that was below average for a top 4 team in the 3 surrounding seasons was suddenly a super team in one single season and only that season and that the competition falling away in that season played no part in that.
You are embarrassing your side of the debate with these foolish arguments Fadge.
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Yep, probably the strongest bottom bottom 8 I have seen now I actually look at it.
I mean for 9th placed to be a hawks team running around with the following stars in it speaks volume for “how terrible and s**t the bottom half was”
What a percentage boosting door Matt of a side with hodge Lewis mitchel lance franklin Trent croad birchall, Jarryd roughhead brad Sewell, Cyril rioli..… oh damn the percentages must have been rolling in for clubs against such a pathetic bunch of players.
Then if we go down to the next example of a percentage boosting doormat we have the walkover port Adelaide footy club featuring: warren tredrea, Travis boak, Kane Cornes, chad cornes, Daniel motlop, Shaun and Peter Burgoyne, Brendan lads, Dominic Cassisi, ebert, westhoff.. people just showed up and took 4 points as well.
I honestly don’t know why the bottom 8 turned up with such spuds who couldn’t compete with such weak bottom 8 talent.
It is good to see people so worked up in a prediction thread. Always makes me chuckle. Best thing is, wait 10 months and we'll have an answer 
Brisbane.
Brisbane.
It is good to see people so worked up in a prediction thread. Always makes me chuckle. Best thing is, wait 10 months and we'll have an answer
Brisbane.
Any time a thread is about Richmond you get a big cluster of desperate-for-recognition fans from the Costa Zoo trying to get back at us for accelerating past them in three finals as if they were nailed to the ground.
. campaigners should have just turned up after half time when it mattered. Then you get the coat-tailers like Fadge desperately trying to elevate Geelong because he thinks it makes the 2010-11 Collingwood a super team. . And then he carefully de-elevates only the 2017-20 Cats because it kills him that Richmond won 3 times as many Grand Finals in that 4 year period as his team has won in the last 64 years. And then you get the usual array of Richmond deniers who can’t believe Richmond winning flags, money in the bank, constant 100k memberships, 7 consecutive finals crowds barring Grand Finals at the MCG above 90k when no other team has a run of more 2 in the AFL era, and making finals all the time is actually a thing. As you will see if the Lions win multiple flags, haters hating you is part of what makes it all so worthwhile.
Thus, on Bigfooty 83.5% of respondents say Brisbane will outperform Richmond in 2023.
v
People who have to put their money where their mouth is, bookmakers, Premiership odds Richmond 8.00….Brisbane 9.00.
Fadge and the Cat pack musn’t have much money.
I don't mind McStay as a player but he kicked 25 goals from 22 games this year, with a career high of 28 goals. I know people will point out that he's doesnt get as many targets because of the options in the Brisbane forward line, but Brisbane didn't have all three of Hipwoood, Daniher and McStay in the side until round 13.
I think Gunston will be an improvement on McStay.
I actually agree that looking at the acquisitions in the trade period alone, I don't think Brisbane came out way ahead of Richmond. The difference is that Brisbane were lucky that they gave up pretty much what Richmond did picks wise (most of their picks in this draft, and future 1st; Brisbane also lost McStay), with Richmond eventually ended up with picks ~49 and 55 in this draft, whereas Brisbane ended up with picks 2 and 12.
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Falcon3518
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Was Gunston a FA? what did you give for Dunkley? That’s why you came out ahead. Both ours were trades which imo we still got at bargain prices.
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rye
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i dont mind taranto as a player but classy is just about the last word i would use to describe him
he probably moonlights at coles deli given how often he butchers the ball
Jack Gunston traded to Brisbane for #48 and F4
Josh Dunkley, F3 (Melb), F3 to Brisbane for #21, F1, F2, F4 (Geel)
Tim Taranto traded to Richmond for #12 and #19
Jacob Hopper, #53 and #63 traded to Richmond for #31 and F1
Does that make them better, or worse?
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Nope, traded for both. McKenna was the only "free" acquisition. As mentioned above, Dunkley cost 21, FR1 and FR2 with some late picks moving around (somewhere between the value between Taranto and Hopper).
Jhye Clark 13
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Richmond supporters... Always looking for validation.
Has there ever been a more insecure 3 time premiership team?
Has there ever been a more insecure 3 time premiership team?
Put him on ignore Fadge he has no idea and the less people reply to him the sooner he will disappearThis is simply great logic when determining the relative strength of teams.
If the quality of the top team/s is closer to the quality of the teams outside the top 8, the competition is more difficult and therefore the better the teams who play in the Grand Final are.
Conversely, if the top teams put a gap between themselves and the rest of the competition, the competition is easier and therefore the Grand Final teams are worse.
FMD.
Votes are telling on this one.
Brisbane premiership ceiling
Richmond i think will win a final and then bow out. Theres a definitive top 6 for mine next year (Brisbane, Melbourne, Carlton, Sydney, Geelong, Richmond).
Richmond the weakest of those 6
Brisbane premiership ceiling
Richmond i think will win a final and then bow out. Theres a definitive top 6 for mine next year (Brisbane, Melbourne, Carlton, Sydney, Geelong, Richmond).
Richmond the weakest of those 6
Cdog71
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The Mcstay trade and probably his last contract is more about potential, if I was a Lions supporter I’d be pretty happy with Gunston taking his spot.
Little bit of cap space for someone who’s reliable when the they get on the ground.
It’s just whether he can play close to a full season.
Hasn’t been able to for a while.
Cdog71
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Probably only the clubs that tried to include VFA flags because they’re minnows
Yeah he's generally been a pretty durable player until the last few years, but he's now had a couple of injuries and age isn't on his side these days. Though if there is one aspect of our club I trust, it's the medical/fitness team's ability to get players through their injuries and on the field (most of the time anyway).
Falcon3518
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So I think ours essentially comes to 12 + CCJ for Taranto and Hopper was F1 + Chol and we get couple of picks back. I think we got them cheap. They were both top 10 picks, I think 2 and 7. Both proven themselves as well imo.
Gunston trade was good, idk what tf the Dunkley one is and you lose McStay. Seems like a wash to me.
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I swear Richmond Fans didn’t use to be this obnoxious. They sure do stick out lately 
Cdog71
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Nah, we gave up heaps for em and rightly so but what’s come in over the last two trade and drafts it’s bloody good.
We’re well placed if it becomes a five man bench
Cdog71
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Gunston is probably a strong enough leader to help keep Daniher outve Hipwoods way if he’s on.
Daniher looks like he could be a pain in the arse and Uncle f**’s might not want upset him.
I hope we run into you’se in finals they’ve been pretty good games last few
Falcon3518
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We’ll see if they were cheap or expensive based on how they perform next year. I’m optimistic.
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Elmer_Judd
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Honest question (without trying to troll honestly) why do SOME not all, but a vocal minority of Richmond supporters seem to take it personally that some posters rate other clubs chances going into season 2023 (and maybe beyond) than The Tigers.
I was wrong about Geelong going into 2022 (honestly thought their flag window was shut) and I could be very wrong about Richmond in 2023, I just don't believe they have enough speedy midfielders and forward line punch any more to be a serious flag threat, plus I am still yet to be convinced they have an strong enough backline at this stage.
On the plus side, they are getting games into some very quality kids, and I do not believe the Tigers will fall off as dramatically as the likes of Hawthorn and Brisbane after their flag dynastys.
I feel like the are following the Swans template of a semi rebuild, and that is not a bad thing.
I was wrong about Geelong going into 2022 (honestly thought their flag window was shut) and I could be very wrong about Richmond in 2023, I just don't believe they have enough speedy midfielders and forward line punch any more to be a serious flag threat, plus I am still yet to be convinced they have an strong enough backline at this stage.
On the plus side, they are getting games into some very quality kids, and I do not believe the Tigers will fall off as dramatically as the likes of Hawthorn and Brisbane after their flag dynastys.
I feel like the are following the Swans template of a semi rebuild, and that is not a bad thing.
It's a good point re Gunston and his leadership, not something I'd really thought about, but we haven't necessarily had an experienced voice consistently in that part of the ground.
In the midst of everything that's happened this off-season, I do think Hipwood might surprise a few people next year. He only ruptured his ACL in July last year (returned in 10 months) so was slow to get going, but he kicked 9 goals in our 3 finals and was comfortably our most dangerous KPF across the whole finals series.
On the other hand, Daniher was in close to career best form (19 goals from his first 6 games) before he did his shoulder in round 7.
I do think we need at least two of Daniher, Hipwood and Gunston going well to be a serious threat.
Falcon3518
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Was their issues playing too many KPFs, I think I remember commentators saying you play better without Daniher or something. Better team balance and dynamics. Yes I know he won you the final against us but is their truth to it?
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