Who will be better in 2023 Richmond or Brisbane?

Who will be better in 2023


  • Total voters
    337
Feb 4, 2008
12,957
27,929
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Lions get a nice leg up from the shoe-horn round in South Australia.

Brisbane v bottom placed North Melbourne.

as against…

Richmond v 2nd placed Sydney Swans.


Just randomly somehow the premier “draws” 2nd bottom Eagles, and Richmond is the only top 9 team to draw a team who finished above them. Swans the only other finalist to draw another finalist, which was necessary to facilitate giving Richmond the toughest draw possible without inconveniencing Geelong.

FMD campaigners are not even trying to hide it.
 

Do the Dew

Club Legend
Feb 14, 2019
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Stuart Dew's Gut
AFL Club
Richmond
im far from the only person saying this - taranto has consistently ranked amongst the top players in terms of clangers and turnovers per game across his career. if you watch him he is a poor ball user and its not like being one is a preclusion to winning a b&f like you seem to think it is - simpkin is one and won a b&f this year.
Snapshot of the 2022 stats for total clangers.

#1 = Oliver
#4 = Crisp
#8 = Cripps
#9 = Petracca

Some handy midfielders in there. Clangers is a rubbish stat. A kick from congestion that is turned over = clanger. A 40m+ pass to a contest isn't considered a clanger regardless of how much pressure the kicker was under. For years the highest amount of clangers have come from the best midfielders in the comp.

Dusty was #1 in clangers in his best years. If Taranto is as clangerish as you say, that's probably a good thing.
 
Snapshot of the 2022 stats for total clangers.

#1 = Oliver
#4 = Crisp
#8 = Cripps
#9 = Petracca

Some handy midfielders in there. Clangers is a rubbish stat. A kick from congestion that is turned over = clanger. A 40m+ pass to a contest isn't considered a clanger regardless of how much pressure the kicker was under. For years the highest amount of clangers have come from the best midfielders in the comp.

Dusty was #1 in clangers in his best years. If Taranto is as clangerish as you say, that's probably a good thing.
im not saying he isnt a handy midfielder. my argument was that classy is not an apt descriptor for taranto - a player very prone to throwing the ball on his boot and hoping for the best
 

FreddyTwoShoes

All Australian
May 1, 2012
931
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Melbourne
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Geelong
Lions get a nice leg up from the shoe-horn round in South Australia.

Brisbane v bottom placed North Melbourne.

as against…

Richmond v 2nd placed Sydney Swans.


Just randomly somehow the premier “draws” 2nd bottom Eagles, and Richmond is the only top 9 team to draw a team who finished above them. Swans the only other finalist to draw another finalist, which was necessary to facilitate giving Richmond the toughest draw possible without inconveniencing Geelong.

FMD campaigners are not even trying to hide it.

Is the 'shoe-horn round' worth more than 4 premiership points?
 
Feb 4, 2008
12,957
27,929
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Is the 'shoe-horn round' worth more than 4 premiership points?

Par expectation it is worth exactly 4 Premiership points to your team and most other top teams and about 2 Premiership points to my team.

Clearly Chris Scott spends his off seasons formulating the AFL draw for them just to keep himself occupied.

Why wedge an extra round in as a feature then make it a festival of mismatches? Bar Richmond v Swans, of course.
 

FreddyTwoShoes

All Australian
May 1, 2012
931
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Geelong
Par expectation it is worth exactly 4 Premiership points to your team and most other top teams and about 2 Premiership points to my team.

Clearly Chris Scott spends his off seasons formulating the AFL draw for them just to keep himself occupied.

Why wedge an extra round in as a feature then make it a festival of mismatches? Bar Richmond v Swans, of course.

Yeah, I'm not sold on it as an idea either, and the name "gather round" is just cringe.

Not sure it (in the context of a 23 game season) advantages / disadvantages one side more than another. If you're playing Sydney at "gather round", wouldn't that mean one less game against them during the non-"gather round" rounds? Swings and round-a-bouts?
 
Feb 4, 2008
12,957
27,929
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Yeah, I'm not sold on it as an idea either, and the name "gather round" is just cringe.

Not sure it (in the context of a 23 game season) advantages / disadvantages one side more than another. If you're playing Sydney at "gather round", wouldn't that mean one less game against them during the non-"gather round" rounds? Swings and round-a-bouts?

Perhaps you are correct, I would certainly hope so. But I am not confident that is right. I was writing on the presumption that the rest of the draw is as per normal and this round is just an extra outside of the normal biased draw.
 

FreddyTwoShoes

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May 1, 2012
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Geelong
Perhaps you are correct, I would certainly hope so. But I am not confident that is right. I was writing on the presumption that the rest of the draw is as per normal and this round is just an extra outside of the normal biased draw.

I hope so too. It would be ludicrous if team A played team B 3 times, whilst only playing team C once.
Of course I wouldn't put it past this administration.
 

Noidnadroj

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 8, 2020
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they were ordinary mate, sorry to break it to you. And i am happy to admit reality that beating geelong in a final by a large margin was not unusual during that decade. We got delt a few big losses along the journey of redevelopment. Yes i am sure some commentators the week of the AFL grand final said adelaide are a good side, what on earth were you expecting them to say about the two teams playing off in the GF week?

That’s ok. You’re like most people. Thought they were outstanding in the lead up in the GF… changed their mind 2 hours later. Time changes people’s memories, but it’s easy to revisit.

I looked up some expert tips for the GF from the AFL website:

Nick Bowen : Adel by 22
Ashley Browne: Adel by 10
Adam Curley : Tigers by 11
Lee Gaskin : Adel by 46
Ben Guthrie : Adel by 14
Marc McGown : Adel by 27
Dinny Navaratnam: Adel by 16
Jennifer Phelan : Adel by 29
Peter Ryan : Adel by 18
Nathan Schmook : Tigers by 12
Matt Thompson : Adel by 5
Callum Twomey: Adel by 19
Michael Whiting : Adel by 31

So 11-2, with many predicting an easy Adelaide win. So yeah, nearly everyone thought they were outstanding leading into the GF.


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Noidnadroj

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 8, 2020
5,790
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Richmond
st kilda was 0.1% more luck away from being B2B premiers, so I am not sure what more a side can do and not win a flag than that saints flag, the poor bastards literally just ran into geelong and that champion collingwood side is the only thing they did wrong. A toe poke and a wayward bounce for Milne is literally the difference between B2B flags. I think many people would put their money on that st kilda side beating Richmond by 6-10 goals in a grand final. They thrived under pressure and having it a scrubby dirty game, and their midfield was much stronger than the Richmond one, and their territory game would have just broken Richmond down.

Let me guess, the mighty Adelaide team is much better from 17 thought who came 12th the year after??

Richmond’s percentage across 6 x finals in 2017 and 2019 was 195%.

But yeah, would’ve lost to a team who won their 2009 finals by 28 points and 7 points by 6-10 x goals.

Yeah nah ….Probably wouldn’t have happened.


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Fadge

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
17,813
17,227
Melbourne
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Collingwood
Lions get a nice leg up from the shoe-horn round in South Australia.

Brisbane v bottom placed North Melbourne.

as against…

Richmond v 2nd placed Sydney Swans.


Just randomly somehow the premier “draws” 2nd bottom Eagles, and Richmond is the only top 9 team to draw a team who finished above them. Swans the only other finalist to draw another finalist, which was necessary to facilitate giving Richmond the toughest draw possible without inconveniencing Geelong.

FMD campaigners are not even trying to hide it.
Always the victim...
 

Noidnadroj

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 8, 2020
5,790
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AFL Club
Richmond
It’s not rocket science, I am saying Richmond beat average teams in the finals, nothing impressive. St kilda just ran into two juggernauts and got unlucky. I will try to dumb it down a bit for you.

Richmond (7.5/10) Vs Adelaide (7/10). MCG factor kicks in a bit to create the larger margin.

St kilda (9.5/10) vs geelong (10/10) and collingwood (9.5/10). One loss by a toe poke the other a draw then a loss week after.

Talent observation standard in brackets.

Not sure how much more I can simplify it.

The Saints of 2010 were just a stock standard GF loser. Worse performed than the Crows of 2017 on every measure leading into the GF. Saints finished 3rd, % of 123, 4 point and 24 point lead in finals wins. Then lucked out with a draw (Pies dominated that game overall) and then smashed in replay which was a better reflection of them as a team.

Saints of 2010 were nothing special but they keep getting lumped in with the way they performed in 2009 - it was chalk and cheese.


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Noidnadroj

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 8, 2020
5,790
19,525
AFL Club
Richmond
This is all absolute rubbish and hindsight heroism.

It is so easy to pick out a single play and declare that as a 'defining moment' - champion steps up and would be champion doesn't.

De Goey had a pretty handy Grand Final in 2018. Collingwood win and we could potentially be referring to his goal early in the last as the defining moment.

Umpire pays the free to Maynard, and we never hear about McGovern intercept mark again.

Hayes and Goddard in the 2010 Grand Final played two of the most epic games from individuals you will ever see. I'd go as far as saying Goddard's performance in that game goes down with Voss in 2002 as the unluckiest players not to have won Norm Smith Medals.

Unluckiest I’ve seen were Ablett of 2008 and Boyd of 2016. Hodge was deserving but Ablett better … and how JJ won that Norm Smith is still a mystery to me.


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BF Tiger

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 5, 2007
9,783
22,305
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AFL Club
Richmond
I hope so too. It would be ludicrous if team A played team B 3 times, whilst only playing team C once.
Of course I wouldn't put it past this administration.
I am hoping Gather Round is full of teams who only match up once during the season. If Richmond play Sydney in round 20 at the MCG then it will feel like Sydney have been cheated out of a return home game, and vice versa.
 
Don’t need to, you have an issue with it not me. And I’m right, you didn’t rebut my argument yet again. Under no circumstances is Geelong 07-11 the best team ever. The end. Let’s talk about Lions v Tigers in 2023 now.


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A team that went103-17 across a 120 game period - inc 3 flags - would find it hard to be bettered.
 

bungalow_bill

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 11, 2010
9,975
11,240
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Gunston is probably a strong enough leader to help keep Daniher outve Hipwoods way if he’s on.
Daniher looks like he could be a pain in the arse and Uncle f**’s might not want upset him.
I hope we run into you’se in finals they’ve been pretty good games last few

Gunston will hopefully be for our forward line what Hodge was for the backs. Funny thing to say considering we were the second highest scoring team last season and IIRC #1 in 2021
 

Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
5,350
3,235
AFL Club
Richmond
A team that went103-17 across a 120 game period - inc 3 flags - would find it hard to be bettered.

Bombers 2000 and 1929 pies had better 1 off seasons. If you argue about longevity you are like 9th all time with 3 in 5. It’s fact, no matter how you slice it you aren’t the best in any way. Let’s move on now the argument is over.


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Bombers 2000 and 1929 pies had better 1 off seasons. If you argue about longevity you are like 9th all time with 3 in 5. It’s fact, no matter how you slice it you aren’t the best in any way. Let’s move on now the argument is over.


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Find a club with a better winning record over a 5 year period.

3 in 5 beats 3 in 4 or 3 in 3 with a winning record like that.

Longevity wins every time when it comes to dynasties whether you like it or not.

We're also the only club in the history of the comp to have 5 consecutive 18 win seasons.

103-17. Amazing

From Rd 6, 2007 to the end of 2022

281-97 - 4 flags

17.6 wins a season
6.1 losses a season

The last 16 years.

Even more remarkable.
 
Last edited:

Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
5,350
3,235
AFL Club
Richmond
Find a club with a better winning record over a 5 year period.

3 in 5 beats 3 in 4 or 3 in 3 with a winning record like that.

Longevity wins every time when it comes to dynasties whether you like it or not.

We're also the only club in the history of the comp to have 5 consecutive 18 win seasons.

103-17. Amazing

From Rd 6, 2007 to the end of 2022

281-97 - 4 flags

17.6 wins a season
6.1 losses a season

The last 16 years.

Even more remarkable.

Oh jeez, you are one of those guys. You’ve convinced yourself not going b2b or better makes you a stronger team to cope🤣. We should’ve told Hardwick, Clarkson and Lethal to purposely lose after the flag years and win the next one for ‘longevity’ 🤣

It took you more seasons to win 3 flags. That’s worse, accept it and move on. Geelong people have real issues dealing with reality, it’s mind warping stuff.

Pies 20s, Hawks 80s, Dees 50s got more flags than you. So still aren’t the best anyway. 4 in 16 also isn’t a dynasty 🤣 wtf


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Oh jeez, you are one of those guys. You’ve convinced yourself not going b2b or better makes you a stronger team to cope🤣. We should’ve told Hardwick, Clarkson and Lethal to purposely lose after the flag years and win the next one for ‘longevity’ 🤣

It took you more seasons to win 3 flags. That’s worse, accept it and move on. Geelong people have real issues dealing with reality, it’s mind warping stuff.

Pies 20s, Hawks 80s, Dees 50s got more flags than you. So still aren’t the best anyway. 4 in 16 also isn’t a dynasty 🤣 wtf


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So you can't find a club with a better 5 year record? Cool.
 
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