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So you have a large upgrade in terms of quality of player overall, but your only knock is he isnt a backup ruck?? Gunston is a significant upgrade
Who will be better in 2023 Richmond or Brisbane?
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Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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McStay is not a world beater, but he plays the team role up forward
It is not a knock on Gunston, but i doubt he goes into the ruck.
McStay ruck work is very average, but he never looked like getting injured unlike Daniher when he fills that role
Hipwood won't be doing relief ruck. That leaves Daniher again who is coming off shoulder surgery and is a very average ruck even when fit
We should be a better team in 2023 with Dunkley, McKenna, Gunston & 2 F/S in Ashcroft & Fletcher being added to the squad.
However, the net team difference between McStay & Gunston will be negligible in my opinion
Stats can be a bit misleading but are a guide. Below both players stats for year 2022
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Yeah, it's a moot debate from where I sit.
There are pro's and con's if you look at McStay out and Gunston in, in isolation.
But the net improvement when you also inject Dunkley, McKenna and Ashcroft (I don't expect much from Fletcher in 2023) will be significant and I don't see how you're not flag favourites.
- Thread starter
- #1,104
Huge difference with the goals as a forward.
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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As i have mentioned, they are different type of players
If Gunston can play close to 23 H & A games at age 31, and kick around the 40 goal mark, i will be very happy.
Kicking a high score has not been an issue for the Lions
It is team defense that has let us down, and the new player inclusions hopefully make some difference in this area
Although against you guys in the PF we could not do either
Gunston easily has the ability to kick 40+ goals a season and not sure about his ability to play 23 games but there is absolutely no reason he couldnt due to his age being 31. He would still have 2-3 years in him imo
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
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Hope you are correct
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May I ask what the hell we’d have to be jealous about in comparison to Richmond!? I’m 32 years old & have seen more flags than Tigers fans of my vintage & in that same time my club has been far more relevant when it comes to making finals etc….But back to the topic, I think both clubs will be top 6, but the hunger having not achieved the ultimate might be enough for the Lions to go all the way, especially when you consider the apparent main contenders will be the Tigers, Dees & Cats, who have all tasted that success recently.
Falcon3518
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To me your 2022 flag didn’t seem like a flag that you guys wanted to get to improve the greatness of the club. It was to just stick it to people.
I saw this here, the too slow too old too good stuff. Coming straight on BF/Facebook and giving s**t to Tigers supporters straight away instead of Sydney like you played us in the GF or something. You guys have also seemed to have moved on pretty quick and talk down the 2022 flag to prop up your 07-11 team in debates. I just haven’t seen soul or passion from you guys really in regards to this flag. But every supporter base is different I guess.
In regards to the success of the clubs it’s 13>10 so yeah I guess you could be jealous that you haven’t had as much success than us. If you are that type of person.
But yeah I agree with your assessment about where we will both finish on the ladder.
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Wowee 45 pages!
Most encouraging thing i have seen from the lions is not the recruiting but the team defence (as in actually run after your opponent) they have been doing pre-season. Change in mindset / tactics was desperately needed. We score well but are quite easy to score against which will never win a flag.
Theoretically the offseason delivers a big boost because the lions only lose 1 best 22 player in McStay, and get in Gunston, Dunkley, Ashcroft and McKenna. That's a massive increase in best 22 for a top 4 (ish) side.
On the flipside it's easy to see Rich and Zorko going downhill, so that could be 2 more out. Gunston could easily breakdown. McKenna has been out of the game for ages.
I think the draw is a net positive, as the lions are not getting sent to Tassie or Geelong for the first time in many years. Double-ups look okay at least atm.
The big one is it's make or break and that can do funny things do clubs. On top of the Fagan stuff. Catalyst to surge? Beginning of tension in the club?
Tigers also intriguing. Midfield just HAS to get better. The caveat being Prestia who needs his body to hold up. I also thought Cotchin played better than expected in the second half of the year, but where does he play if not inside mid?
Riewoldt also defied his age and but for ordinary kicking (apart from against us!) could have been even better. Does he have more in the tank? Ditto Tarrant.
The tigers were what i thought they would be in 2022 - more susceptible to injury, not the team they were, but still bloody dangerous. i'd expect similar in 2023 but i do wonder how many of the old timers can go again.
But Richmond had a pretty tough run with injury. And of course THE big question, does Martin have hunger for the game anymore?
Tiges seem slightly under the odds to me but they have climbed the mountain before i guess...
Most encouraging thing i have seen from the lions is not the recruiting but the team defence (as in actually run after your opponent) they have been doing pre-season. Change in mindset / tactics was desperately needed. We score well but are quite easy to score against which will never win a flag.
Theoretically the offseason delivers a big boost because the lions only lose 1 best 22 player in McStay, and get in Gunston, Dunkley, Ashcroft and McKenna. That's a massive increase in best 22 for a top 4 (ish) side.
On the flipside it's easy to see Rich and Zorko going downhill, so that could be 2 more out. Gunston could easily breakdown. McKenna has been out of the game for ages.
I think the draw is a net positive, as the lions are not getting sent to Tassie or Geelong for the first time in many years. Double-ups look okay at least atm.
The big one is it's make or break and that can do funny things do clubs. On top of the Fagan stuff. Catalyst to surge? Beginning of tension in the club?
Tigers also intriguing. Midfield just HAS to get better. The caveat being Prestia who needs his body to hold up. I also thought Cotchin played better than expected in the second half of the year, but where does he play if not inside mid?
Riewoldt also defied his age and but for ordinary kicking (apart from against us!) could have been even better. Does he have more in the tank? Ditto Tarrant.
The tigers were what i thought they would be in 2022 - more susceptible to injury, not the team they were, but still bloody dangerous. i'd expect similar in 2023 but i do wonder how many of the old timers can go again.
But Richmond had a pretty tough run with injury. And of course THE big question, does Martin have hunger for the game anymore?
Tiges seem slightly under the odds to me but they have climbed the mountain before i guess...
Lions were so lucky all those Essendon players were injured. We'd only won 15 in a row at that point so quite clearly a weak side just happy to be on the same park as the Dons.
rfctigerarmy
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Brisbane should just about be flag favourites based on their additions.
Richmond are more like top 6 material.
Richmond are more like top 6 material.
Butcher Hicks
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2001 was a very weak season, you beat an out in straight sets Port in your first Final, then Richmond who wouldn't make finals again for 12 years, and then beat a banged up Essendon, and, FACT, used "IV drips" to have an edge and made your changerooms look like "hospital wards" in the process, which was banned soon after.
I was just using Brisbane to make a point that just because a team is stacked it's easy to overlook the weakness of season 2001 ( also 2002 smashed Adelaide & Port to meet 9 losses Collingwood in the GF), but when Richmond because of our list (Collingwood's was a "better list" and Geelong is still some say "the greatest dynasty in the history of the game") wins 3 flags in 4 years it's easy for some to say "weakest era in the history of the game." But how weak was it really, if we made a "dynasty" jealous and left a "better list" in our wake, Brisbane never did that?
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Starting to think all these Richmond posters are the same bloke sitting at his computer eating cheetos.
Butcher Hicks
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I can start to think also.
Do you think Brisbane 2001 beat Essendon without their IV game plan?
Because I'm thinking, "if we can execute the IV gameplan we can kill it" is apt for that 2001 team.
Please do.
Butcher Hicks
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Do you think Brisbane 2001 beat Essendon without their IV game plan?
Oh my God.
Butcher Hicks
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I'll ask you then, do you think Brisbane 2001 beat Essendon without their IV game plan?
I just believe that Brisbane 3 peat was the weakest era in the history of the game and trying to find out what others think? I didn't start the weakest era in the history game debate, but do find it fascinating!
Re the “weakest eras” argument, I think there’s far too much subjectivity involved and thus is one of the more pointless aspects of footy to argue about.
Not buying into your “IV game plan” argument though, other than to say that it just makes you sound very desperate.
I enjoy the 'weakest era' debates, because they're pretty easy to quantify.
Brisbane 2001 to 2003:
- Beat an Essendon team in 2001 who finished top of the ladder, backing up from a 24 and 1 season in 2000. If that's not strong opposition, I don't know what is?
- I acknowledge the Collingwood 2002/03 teams weren't the strongest, and definitely a fair way short of the 2010/11 model. However, they did make back to back Grand Finals, so that says something.
- Port Adelaide finished top at the end of the home and away season in 3 consecutive seasons - 2002/03/04. Winning the flag in 2004, they were a quality team.
- Sydney were also building, playing Preliminary Finals during Brisbane's 3peat before playing in back to back Grand Finals in 2005/06, winning one. They were also a quality team on the up.
There is a strong argument this is possibly the 2nd strongest era behind Geelong 2007-11, and certainly miles ahead of Richmond 2017-20 when we look at the multitude of opponents that came and went during that time.
I think we won and then won the next two years. The rest is all opinion so who really cares.
Butcher Hicks
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I find it fascinating!
This is an interesting response, is it just me that sounds desperate or anyone that finds arguing about the "weakest eras" fascinating?
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You know what is not fascinating? Anything you post- you need to stop it’s embarrassing.
The bit I find that sounds desperate is the lazy labelling. E.g. “IV Lions”.
