Who will be better in 2023 Richmond or Brisbane?

[Butcher Hicks]

Didn’t we win it because of the IV as you keep saying? How did we possibly win the next 2 without it???? That’s right apparently Collingwood were s**t- got within 2 kicks of beating the greatest side ever but yep they were s**t. Essendon mocked us- worked out very well for them too. We only beat them because of injuries- another ‘fact’ as you put it. Your just another Richmond supporter jealous your team couldn’t win 3 in a row- let alone the counting the GWS one, talk about a walk over and was another one against the powerhouse Adelaide team!!!!! And the other on a season ruined by Covid. Just get back to being another ‘hick’ tigers supporter.

9 loss Collingwood by 11pts in a weak era with your stacked team

Richmond wasn't a team stacked with champions in really competitive seasons, but somehow you've invented that Adelaide, GWS and victory over Geelong (on your ground when your players were sleeping in their own beds all season) was somehow now expected expected after we won

Kevin Bartlett on his commentary duties used say: "take the VC son," you guys corrupted it to: "take the IV boys"

 

[jonnobackpocket]

9 loss Collingwood by 11pts in a weak era with your stacked team

Richmond wasn't a team stacked with champions in really competitive seasons, but somehow you've invented that Adelaide, GWS and victory over Geelong (on your ground when your players were sleeping in their own beds all season) was somehow now expected expected after we won

Kevin Bartlett on his commentary duties used say: "take the VC son," you guys corrupted it to: "take the IV boys"

Putting a heap of emojis does not validate your s**t argument, your no good at this. Every other teams flags are tainted due to other teams being no good but somehow Richmond’s were much more valuable. What’s us sleeping in our beds got to do with beating Geelong. ? Ha ha

 

[twhowler]

Interesting post in regard to Brisbane. Zorko and Rich have been stars for a long time. We saw it first hand with Edwards at Richmond last year, a super player that went downhill faster than I have ever seen in one year.

Brisbane's backline is it's weakest line so some young players will need to stand up, as with most clubs.

You mention that the Richmond's midfield has to get better, adding Taranto and Hopper surely adds quite a bit there.

And according to the club, Martin is very invested and in great shape mentally and physically. Of course the club would say that but doubting his hunger for the game is a bit questionable given how professionally he has taken his football over the last 6-7 years. He did almost lose a kidney and had his father die suddenly last year, whom he was very close to, so that would take the wind out of most footballers. The only thing being he will be 31 years old, so no longer in his prime but still a very handy addition.

Brisbane you give a bit of a pass mark overall, but surely Richmond have improved their stocks over the preseason. Not that it always turns out that way.

Oh for sure Martin had significant excuses. My point being impossible to know if he will get his full hunger back, and at 31 as you say not his peak. But given the midfield additions you'd think Martin will start being an 80/20 Forward/Mid? I am conscious of avoiding recency-bias from his final at the gabba when he was way short of a gallop.

I think tiges are almost certainly set to improve but it might be more marginal depending on what they lose from the old timers.

 

[twhowler]

What is the bullshit opinion here,

You used IV drips, your changerooms looked like "hospital wards," it wasn't a good look, AFL banned it soon after you won the flag, Essendon mocked you guys, because of course you don't have the IV game plan if there's not an advantage to gain. All that is FACT is it not?

No it is not.

Were the IV drips a benefit? Probably, especially in recovery.

Were they the difference in the game? Impossible for anyone to ever know. But the fact they won the next 2 Gfs without them (and got into one more grand final) suggests the team they had assembled went okay.

AFL banned it - irrelevant, they hated the look of it. That was all.

Essendon mocked you guys - even less relevant.

"Hospital wards" - well i mean 2002 apparently we used a record amount of pain killer injections so it probably did look a bit like a hospital ward. Should they ban pain killers?

 

[Grrr]

Oh for sure Martin had significant excuses. My point being impossible to know if he will get his full hunger back, and at 31 as you say not his peak. But given the midfield additions you'd think Martin will start being an 80/20 Forward/Mid? I am conscious of avoiding recency-bias from his final at the gabba when he was way short of a gallop.

I think tiges are almost certainly set to improve but it might be more marginal depending on what they lose from the old timers.

'Old timers' we probably have three. Riewoldt, we will need to find another tall to compete in the air, but Jack is still pretty good as a 'third tall'. Tarrant, I'd be going with Balta due to age, so probably not a lot in that as well. Tarrant is not my best 22 although still a good player. Cotchin, well the two new boys take his importance away as they are both inside mids when playing there. He might enjoy a bit less pressure as well. Had a good year.

We lost Edwards on last years form that is no loss, with respect as he has been a great player for us.

Next eldest are Grimes, Pickett. Martin, all 31 then Prestia 30, all have a few good years in them.

Injuries of course as you get older could play an important factor.

I think Martin will play his normal role as a mid who plays mainly like a high half forward, hasn't been seen in the backline in years.

The big in for Brisbane is Dunkley without any real player going backwards due to age apart from Zorko and Rich. Both sides should improve, in theory, if all things go right (especially so for Richmond.)

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Brisbane finished in a better position , have added Dunkley and Gunston whilst losing McStay (and Robbo maybe) and added the two young F&S prospects, with Ashcroft touted as being a round 1 starter.

Richmond have added Hopper and Taranto in place of any kids in the draft. Have the risk of jack falling off the cliff in 2023.

Both teams struggled defending in 2023. Neither have added players to their back 6 in the off season, Richmond do get their Capt in Grimes back though who missed the last 6 games.

I think Brisbane are set up to be more potent and consistent through the H&A season and are comfortably set for a top 4 finish IMO.

Richmond take the pressure of Cotchin and Prestia with Hopper and Taranto but could still see the same issues that had them finish 7th last, so a 5-8 finish may be on the cards again.

So overall Brisbane will be a better team. The only question mark will be, can they do it in finals, which they haven't done the last 4 years.

Granted, Richmond had their 3 finals capitulations before they tasted success, so Brisbane may be primed to strike.

 

[Lionheart182]

Brisbane finished in a better position , have added Dunkley and Gunston whilst losing McStay (and Robbo maybe) and added the two young F&S prospects, with Ashcroft touted as being a round 1 starter.

Richmond have added Hopper and Taranto in place of any kids in the draft. Have the risk of jack falling off the cliff in 2023.

Both teams struggled defending in 2023. Neither have added players to their back 6 in the off season, Richmond do get their Capt in Grimes back though who missed the last 6 games.

I think Brisbane are set up to be more potent and consistent through the H&A season and are comfortably set for a top 4 finish IMO.

Richmond take the pressure of Cotchin and Prestia with Hopper and Taranto but could still see the same issues that had them finish 7th last, so a 5-8 finish may be on the cards again.

So overall Brisbane will be a better team. The only question mark will be, can they do it in finals, which they haven't done the last 4 years.

Granted, Richmond had their 3 finals capitulations before they tasted success, so Brisbane may be primed to strike.

With regards to our backline, it’s not a personnel issue at all as the players are actually good - Andrews, Adams and Gardiner with Payne as backup. The bigger issue is the overall ability of the team to defend as a whole, we gave away so many scores last year from pure lack of defensive pressure over the ground. That to me is our biggest issue, along with the concern over whether Adam’s can get back after his concussion issues.

 

[Section 5]

Brisbane finished in a better position , have added Dunkley and Gunston whilst losing McStay (and Robbo maybe) and added the two young F&S prospects, with Ashcroft touted as being a round 1 starter.

Richmond have added Hopper and Taranto in place of any kids in the draft. Have the risk of jack falling off the cliff in 2023.

Both teams struggled defending in 2023. Neither have added players to their back 6 in the off season, Richmond do get their Capt in Grimes back though who missed the last 6 games.

I think Brisbane are set up to be more potent and consistent through the H&A season and are comfortably set for a top 4 finish IMO.

Richmond take the pressure of Cotchin and Prestia with Hopper and Taranto but could still see the same issues that had them finish 7th last, so a 5-8 finish may be on the cards again.

So overall Brisbane will be a better team. The only question mark will be, can they do it in finals, which they haven't done the last 4 years.

Granted, Richmond had their 3 finals capitulations before they tasted success, so Brisbane may be primed to strike.

Lions added McKenna

 

[VinnieB]

9 loss Collingwood by 11pts in a weak era with your stacked team

Richmond wasn't a team stacked with champions in really competitive seasons, but somehow you've invented that Adelaide, GWS and victory over Geelong (on your ground when your players were sleeping in their own beds all season) was somehow now expected expected after we won

Kevin Bartlett on his commentary duties used say: "take the VC son," you guys corrupted it to: "take the IV boys"

English, please.

 

[bc27]

Flip of the coin in all honesty.

 

[Falcon3518]

Oh for sure Martin had significant excuses. My point being impossible to know if he will get his full hunger back, and at 31 as you say not his peak. But given the midfield additions you'd think Martin will start being an 80/20 Forward/Mid? I am conscious of avoiding recency-bias from his final at the gabba when he was way short of a gallop.

I think tiges are almost certainly set to improve but it might be more marginal depending on what they lose from the old timers.

I don’t think 31 is old in todays game really. Geelong have proven that. Apparently he is training the house down but I always take that with a grain of salt.

Riewoldt is still good for 40 goals a year which is serviceable. Cotchin will be managed and we won’t depend on him really. But yeah I agree Martin will play 80/20 fwd/mid. Could be really dangerous imo. 40-50 goals is not out of the question if it’s the above ratio. He’s kicked bags of 6 before playing 60/40 mid/fwd.

Our forward line looks pretty good especially with better delivery and inside 50s:

Dusty, Riewoldt, Bolton
Cumberland, Lynch, Rioli Jnr



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Lions added McKenna

I'm interested to see how he fits in, could be a masterstroke, or , he may not have much impact if the kids are getting a go and the likes of Coleman etc continue to improve with more footy.

Originally I say he replaces Robbo, but the kids will have to play somewhere.

 

[Section 5]

I'm interested to see how he fits in, could be a masterstroke, or , he may not have much impact if the kids are getting a go and the likes of Coleman etc continue to improve with more footy.

Originally I say he replaces Robbo, but the kids will have to play somewhere.

You are correct in regard to where does McKenna play
Depends on what was discussed between Conor and the Lions to get his signature over a few other clubs
Could very well be wing and would be interesting to see how he goes. I think he mostly played half back for the Bombers

We know McKenna was/is an excellent half back, but one wing spot was a weakness for the Lions in 2022
At the moment the Lions half backs are Coleman, Rich with someone to take that last spot. Starcevich plays a different role.
I think it will be McKenna over some names people will not know very well
Wilmot (3 games all finals), Madden (11), Carter (0 Edit should be 1) then the versatile Ah Chee (105) and Cockatoo (49)

At this early stage i have our wings as Berry a definite, and the trouble wing spot going to Deven Robertson (25 games)
One of the two midfield bench spots being Will Ashcroft wing/mid relief.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

You are correct in regard to where does McKenna play
Depends on what was discussed between Conor and the Lions to get his signature over a few other clubs
Could very well be wing and would be interesting to see how he goes. I think he mostly played half back for the Bombers

We know McKenna was/is an excellent half back, but one wing spot was a weakness for the Lions in 2022
At the moment the Lions half backs are Coleman, Rich with someone to take that last spot. Starcevich plays a different role.
I think it will be McKenna over some names people will not know very well
Wilmot (3 games all finals), Madden (11), Carter (0) then the versatile Ah Chee (105) and Cockatoo (49)

At this early stage i have our wings as Berry a definite, and the trouble wing spot going to Deven Robertson (25 games)
One of the two midfield bench spots being Will Ashcroft wing/mid relief.

Surely McCluggage stays on the wing, as he's in the top 2 wingman in the comp

 

[Section 5]

Surely McCluggage stays on the wing, as he's in the top 2 wingman in the comp

In the last 2 seasons McCluggage has spent the majority of his time in the engine room part of the midfield
He does spend a little time on the wing as do others.

 

[Sky]

I don’t think 31 is old in todays game really. Geelong have proven that. Apparently he is training the house down but I always take that with a grain of salt.

Riewoldt is still good for 40 goals a year which is serviceable. Cotchin will be managed and we won’t depend on him really. But yeah I agree Martin will play 80/20 fwd/mid. Could be really dangerous imo. 40-50 goals is not out of the question if it’s the above ratio. He’s kicked bags of 6 before playing 60/40 mid/fwd.

Our forward line looks pretty good especially with better delivery and inside 50s:

Dusty, Riewoldt, Bolton
Cumberland, Lynch, Rioli Jnr



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

My gut feeling is Riewoldt declines some more so Lynch might win the Coleman

 

[Section 5]

Hank Heavenly
Center Bounce Attendance for the Lions in 2022
Next best after McCluggage is 44

EDIT: thanks Hank Heavenly for picking me up on this post. See below paragraph i missed posting

AFL Centre Bounce Attendances are available as far back as the 2020 season. Average refers to the percentage of CBAs each player has attended for the season (considering only those games they have played). Each round is denoted as percentage of CBAs attended for that round.

	AVG	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27
Lachie Neale	85	88	83	88	81	91	75	82	83	93	89	86	78	95		67	86	90	88	82	85	85	83	93	97	89	79
Oscar McInerney	69	75	59	71		72	64	58	63	63	65	69	72	67		81	93	77		79	70	85	78	90	3		82
Jarryd Lyons	65	67	52	71	69	66	83	67	71	59	78	77	81	67		56	68	63	69	45	58	61	61	41
Hugh McCluggage	55	25	31	38	42	75	78	79	38	59	57		50	71		78	68	37	58	39	58	67	48	59	57	48	46

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Hank Heavenly
Center Bounce Attendance for the Lions in 2022
Next best after McCluggage is 44

	AVG	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27
Lachie Neale	85	88	83	88	81	91	75	82	83	93	89	86	78	95		67	86	90	88	82	85	85	83	93	97	89	79
Oscar McInerney	69	75	59	71		72	64	58	63	63	65	69	72	67		81	93	77		79	70	85	78	90	3		82
Jarryd Lyons	65	67	52	71	69	66	83	67	71	59	78	77	81	67		56	68	63	69	45	58	61	61	41
Hugh McCluggage	55	25	31	38	42	75	78	79	38	59	57		50	71		78	68	37	58	39	58	67	48	59	57	48	46

they can't be centre bounce attendance surely, no one is having 80+ centre bounces, that's 38 goals per side plus 4 to start each qtr...

Are they just total stoppages?

 

[Barnzy]

Without bias I will say Brisbane.

I would rather Dunkley over Taranto and Hopper. He's a fair bit better than both. Obviously two is better than one but they also added Gunston and Ashcroft to their best 22.

Neale, Dunkley, McLuggage etc are going to wreck nearly every midfield in the league. It will come down to if their talls can be more consistent and step up in big moments.

I think we will be thereabouts in top 4-6. I think Brisbane all things considered should finish on top of the ladder. We've won our flags and I view anything that happens in the next couple years as gravy. Brisbane need to win with this group now and if they can't it would be viewed as a pretty big failure.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I can start to think also.

Do you think Brisbane 2001 beat Essendon without their IV game plan?

Because I'm thinking, "if we can execute the IV gameplan we can kill it" is apt for that 2001 team.

 

[Section 5]

they can't be centre bounce attendance surely, no one is having 80+ centre bounces, that's 38 goals per side plus 4 to start each qtr...

Are they just total stoppages?

Sorry about that i have edited my post
They are % of CBA attended

Below link if you want to check out your side or others.
Should open at Richmond if not just find them on the drop-down menu
Don't know how accurate the site is but it's a guide

CBAs - DFS Australia

Centre Bounce Attendances are available from the 2020 season. Average refers to the percentage of CBAs each player has attended for the season (considering only those games they have played). Each round is denoted as percentage of CBAs attended for that round. Centre Bounce Attendance Percentage...

dfsaustralia.com

 

[Section 5]

they can't be centre bounce attendance surely, no one is having 80+ centre bounces, that's 38 goals per side plus 4 to start each qtr...

Are they just total stoppages?

That site also has heat maps and other stuff
For heat maps you can have a season overview or say click "link" on a round.
Below is McCluggage round 15 v Melbourne

 

[bzparkes]

Lions finish higher in H&A, Richmond go further in finals. Both make a prelim.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Falcon3518]

Do you not understand what I said or do you not agree with it?

I think Lions finish 2nd we finish 3rd in H&A
Lions lose a prelim and we make it to the GF.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[StevoJenkins]

You are correct in regard to where does McKenna play
Depends on what was discussed between Conor and the Lions to get his signature over a few other clubs
Could very well be wing and would be interesting to see how he goes. I think he mostly played half back for the Bombers

We know McKenna was/is an excellent half back, but one wing spot was a weakness for the Lions in 2022
At the moment the Lions half backs are Coleman, Rich with someone to take that last spot. Starcevich plays a different role.
I think it will be McKenna over some names people will not know very well
Wilmot (3 games all finals), Madden (11), Carter (0) then the versatile Ah Chee (105) and Cockatoo (49)

At this early stage i have our wings as Berry a definite, and the trouble wing spot going to Deven Robertson (25 games)
One of the two midfield bench spots being Will Ashcroft wing/mid relief.

Carter Michael (1)*