Who will be better in 2023 Richmond or Brisbane?

Who will be better in 2023


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Fadge

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
12,426
11,118
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
But looking at your list compared to quite a few others I can’t see you contending in 2023 as just too many holes in too many positions.
I'll just respond to this part of your post, as my response will sum everything up.

Collingwood have clearly gone for versatility in their playing list, which is absolutely crucial in today's day and age.

Our ruck stocks looked pretty good at the start of 2022, but when Grundy (who I thought was our most valuable player) went down, we went pretty well without him.

Our midfield is as deep as anyone's, with the luxury of many of these players able to play alternate roles:
Crisp (can go back)
Pendlebury (can play anywhere)
Sidebottom (can go forward but also control half back)
De Goey (forward)
Elliott (played some midfield minutes in 2022 and likely to increase in 2023)
Lipinski (forward)
Jaicos (forward)
Naicos (expect he'll play more midfield minutes in 2023, can clearly play half-back though expect he'll be more dangerous at half-forward into the future)
Tom Mitchell (primarily midfield)
Adams (primarily midfield)
Maynard (possibly more midfield minutes, particularly if playing a shutdown role)
Also expect mature ager Joe Richards to be a starting mid rotating through half forward.

This versatility is exactly what you require in today's day and age. 12 options rotating through the midfield, and that's before we consider any of our 2nd/3rd year players such as McInnes, Macrae and Carmichael developing into best 22 players.

Forward - McStay is no Wayne Carey but he was targeted to straighten us up. Unpredictable forward line worked well in 2022 - why do we need 2 players kicking 50 goals when we have the following more than capable of contributing 20 plus goals each - Ginnivan (40 goals in 2022 in his second season), Mihocek (41 goals in 2022), De Goey, Elliott, Jaicos, McStay, Cameron, Johnson, Hosken-Elliott, Naicos (depending on back/fwd/mid mix), Hill (depending on game time) and possibly Sidebottom (depending on how much time forward).
 

Noidnadroj

Premiership Player
Dec 8, 2020
3,422
11,808
AFL Club
Richmond
I'll just respond to this part of your post, as my response will sum everything up.

Collingwood have clearly gone for versatility in their playing list, which is absolutely crucial in today's day and age.

Our ruck stocks looked pretty good at the start of 2022, but when Grundy (who I thought was our most valuable player) went down, we went pretty well without him.

Our midfield is as deep as anyone's, with the luxury of many of these players able to play alternate roles:
Crisp (can go back)
Pendlebury (can play anywhere)
Sidebottom (can go forward but also control half back)
De Goey (forward)
Elliott (played some midfield minutes in 2022 and likely to increase in 2023)
Lipinski (forward)
Jaicos (forward)
Naicos (expect he'll play more midfield minutes in 2023, can clearly play half-back though expect he'll be more dangerous at half-forward into the future)
Tom Mitchell (primarily midfield)
Adams (primarily midfield)
Maynard (possibly more midfield minutes, particularly if playing a shutdown role)
Also expect mature ager Joe Richards to be a starting mid rotating through half forward.

This versatility is exactly what you require in today's day and age. 12 options rotating through the midfield, and that's before we consider any of our 2nd/3rd year players such as McInnes, Macrae and Carmichael developing into best 22 players.

Forward - McStay is no Wayne Carey but he was targeted to straighten us up. Unpredictable forward line worked well in 2022 - why do we need 2 players kicking 50 goals when we have the following more than capable of contributing 20 plus goals each - Ginnivan (40 goals in 2022 in his second season), Mihocek (41 goals in 2022), De Goey, Elliott, Jaicos, McStay, Cameron, Johnson, Hosken-Elliott, Naicos (depending on back/fwd/mid mix), Hill (depending on game time) and possibly Sidebottom (depending on how much time forward).

Not sure the forward line worked out all that well in 2022 - 9th highest scoring team for the season. So it was just average.

But 2022 was a season where everything in H&A pointed to Pies being a 9-10th ranked team.

In H&A only:

Pies were trailing at 3/4 time 11 times in 2022 and won 7 and lost 4. It’s unheard of. From 2018-2021 the Pies trailed at 3/4 time a total of 38 times for 7 wins and 31 losses.

Against top-8 teams they were 3 wins and 5 losses. Cats and Swans were both 6w 2l.

In games by 6-points and under they were 7-0. 11-1 in games under 12.

From 2018-2021 in their 9 games decided by under 6-points they were 3 wins and 6 losses.

Anyway … time will tell. But for the Pies to repeat 2022 they’ll need to improve significantly as their 2022 season was a statistical anomaly on almost every measure where they probably were closer to a 9th or 10th ranked team.



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catscollector

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 30, 2018
6,774
8,725
AFL Club
Geelong
Are Richmond supporters seriously downplaying Collingwood's list. That's classic Tiggers.
Elliott, Mitchell, Pendlebury, Howe, Sidebottom, Cox vs Riewoldt, Martin, Grimes, Prestia, Tarrant, Cotchin, Lynch, Pickett . . . . who relies more on their older brigade?
Not to mention the likes of Quaynor, Daicos brothers, Ginnivan & Johnson are already well established and superior to anything Richmond have coming through.
 

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Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
5,351
3,208
AFL Club
Richmond
Are Richmond supporters seriously downplaying Collingwood's list. That's classic Tiggers.
Elliott, Mitchell, Pendlebury, Howe, Sidebottom, Cox vs Riewoldt, Martin, Grimes, Prestia, Tarrant, Cotchin, Lynch, Pickett . . . . who relies more on their older brigade?
Not to mention the likes of Quaynor, Daicos brothers, Ginnivan & Johnson are already well established and superior to anything Richmond have coming through.

With Taranto, Hopper and Bolton coming into their prime. Pies rely on their oldies more. Have no idea how you think Ginnivan & Johnson are better than them but ok.


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catscollector

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 30, 2018
6,774
8,725
AFL Club
Geelong
Hopper is 26 while Taranto's 24.
The guys I mentioned are 22 and under.

Collingwood have a bunch of blokes Hopper's age. Hence why they will be far better positioned than Richmond for years to come.
 

Noidnadroj

Premiership Player
Dec 8, 2020
3,422
11,808
AFL Club
Richmond
Hopper is 26 while Taranto's 24.
The guys I mentioned are 22 and under.

Collingwood have a bunch of blokes Hopper's age. Hence why they will be far better positioned than Richmond for years to come.

Nice choice of age …… let’s have a look at the 25yo and under brigade … ie. 7-8 years left:

Bolton
Hopper
Taranto
Balta
Baker
Rioli
Rioli
Cumberland
Graham
Ralphsmith
Gibcus

Tigers have added Taranto, Hopper and a fit Martin to a team that didn’t lose a game by more than 6-points from Round 7.

The forward lines are simply chalk and cheese …

Lynch v Mihocek
Riewoldt v McStay
Bolton v Elliott
Martin v DeGoey
Cumberland v Ginnivan
MRJ v Hoskin Elliott

Richmond have 2 players capable of 50+ and Pies have none. Richmond were the highest scoring team of 2022 - Lynch missed 6 games. Martin missed half a season. Our midfield was undermanned. Bolton kicked 41.42.

So it’s exciting to think what scores we might be able to put on the board in 2023.



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blueiris

Premium Platinum
Aug 16, 2010
9,289
6,242
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Daniher v Lynch v Mihocek
Hipwood v Riewoldt v McStay
Cameron v Bolton v Elliott
Bailey V Martin v DeGoey
McCarthy v Cumberland v Ginnivan
Gunstan v MRJ v Hoskin Elliott - I could put Rayner here too
 

Yoda_

Hall of Famer
May 6, 2007
35,678
19,835
South East Suburbs
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
Why is Collingwood being flooded in this thread???


Brisbane quite comfortably should be ahead with there acquisitions in the off season.
 

Noidnadroj

Premiership Player
Dec 8, 2020
3,422
11,808
AFL Club
Richmond
Why is Collingwood being flooded in this thread???


Brisbane quite comfortably should be ahead with there acquisitions in the off season.

Brisbane acquired Gunston and Dunkley, but lost McStay (plus drafted Ashcroft who looks alike he’ll make an immediate impact).

Richmond acquired Taranto and Hopper and lost no-one.

I’d argue on balance the acquisitions are very similar.

If Dustin Martin returns to full fitness he should tip the scales Richmond’s way. Adding TT, Hopper and Martin to a team that didn’t lose by more than 6-points from Round 7 is promising.


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