Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn

[Worm4]

I have spent a lot more time over the years analysing Carlton.

Hawthorn have snuck up on me...

 

[Thrawn]

Watch Fadge lead the post count in this thread as well.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Only if that top 6 is surrounded by the right role players imo.

Carlton hasn't had the role players we need to compliment our top end either through injury availability or just a lack of options within the list the last few years.

Get the role players fit and working together and the stars can shine, as we saw when we had a good bill of health and form late in 2023. Have had to move a few glass bodies on this off season though so will be interesting to see who takes their spots in the team and how well they compliment the players above them.

Self own of the week.

So much effort went into it too.

Commendable.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Self own of the week.

So much effort went into it too.

Commendable.

Huh?

 

[Worm4]

Watch Fadge lead the post count in this thread as well.

It's his prerogative. And in doing so, will self congratulate by referencing old stats that he has previously brought amongst a number of different threads that will all be different, but 1 of them will be right for the purpose of this particular thread

 

[toomanysquibs]

Meek and Scrimshaw in particular are very stiff not to be B+.

Both are B+ players.

Scrimshaw's ability to attack from the back half is not too far behind Sicily's.

His defensive stocks went up this year too.

Baffling assessment written by someone who probably didn't really watch him play this year.

 

[toomanysquibs]

I would say that Hawks have more B graders than us, and will probably finish above us come seasons end.

Watson, MacKenzie, Dear, Macdonald and co. could well be knocking on the door of B+ by midway through next year if they repeat their 2024 improvement/debut seasons.

Meek and Scrimshaw are just a tier below our best players.

The difference is that many of our good players who aren't A graders are still very young, and look like they can wind up A-graders.

Watson and D'Ambrossio seem very likely on that front.

The other two guys I've mentioned above will give it a shake as well if they continue to improve.

Also Day is already an A grader, but people like to pretend he's not (though neither was Newcombe only a few rounds before the end of the season, according to many).

 

[threesixpio]

Hawthorn have a cheap as chips midfield of Day, Newcombe, Worpel and Nash.

Pick 12
MSD
Pick 46
International rookie

How we managed to get this lot with that hand …I’m pretty stoked. Add in D’Ambrossio Lord of steak knives who makes the AA squad. heck me

We have a couple of young higher picks that could develop more next year in Mackenzie and Ward. If they come on watch out

Good thread - up and comer that some say is punching above its weight verses team that is underperforming

Hope we get two games

 

[Fadge]

Hawthorn have a cheap as chips midfield of Day, Newcombe, Worpel and Nash.

Pick 12
MSD
Pick 46
International rookie

How we managed to get this lot with that hand …I’m pretty stoked. Add in D’Ambrossio Lord of steak knives who makes the AA squad. heck me

We have a couple of young higher picks that could develop more next year in Mackenzie and Ward. If they come on watch out

Good thread - up and comer that some say is punching above its weight verses team that is underperforming

Hope we get two games

It just shows you don't necessarily need years and years of high draft picks to build a list to contend for premierships.

Talent identification, development and system are the keys.

Good point on Ward and Mackenzie.

 

[threesixpio]

It just shows you don't necessarily need years and years of high draft picks to build a list to contend for premierships.

Talent identification, development and system are the keys.

Good point on Ward and Mackenzie.

Oh I think you need some. We just lucked out a bit on this. Wouldn’t recommend it as a strategy!

 

[Obeanie1]

Oh, that would be why Carlton have been so successful over recent times, given they have arguably the best top 6 players of all teams in the competition (on paper)...

I will do it later on, but for a start both Newcombe and Day are ahead of Walsh, and Sicily ahead of McKay, so it's not as if Carlton have the best 6 players across both teams and we start from there...

Best top 6 of all teams?

Who said that?

I said they are better than Hawthorns.

We are discussing Carlton v Hawthorn arent we?

 

[Obeanie1]

Watson, MacKenzie, Dear, Macdonald and co. could well be knocking on the door of B+ by midway through next year if they repeat their 2024 improvement/debut seasons.

Meek and Scrimshaw are just a tier below our best players.

The difference is that many of our good players who aren't A graders are still very young, and look like they can wind up A-graders.

Watson and D'Ambrossio seem very likely on that front.

The other two guys I've mentioned above will give it a shake as well if they continue to improve.

Also Day is already an A grader, but people like to pretend he's not (though neither was Newcombe only a few rounds before the end of the season, according to many).

Newcombe needs more consistency in his game IMO.

He is big but not quick.

And he is the Hawks #1 mid.

How many other clubs would he be the #1 mid?

I would suggest none. Will be interested in Hawks fans thoughts on where he ranks compared to other clubs. And the Lols I will put in the 'yep I have nothing" column.

No surprise who the first lol was from.

So Lad which other club is Newcombe the #1 mid at?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Newcombe needs more consistency in his game IMO.

He is big but not quick.

And he is Hawks #1 mid.

How many other clubs would he be the #1 mid?

I would suggest none.

The guy who’s finished 2nd, 2nd and 1st in the last 3 Peter Crimmin’s medals needs to be more consistent.

Stop talking about a team that you clearly know nothing about.

 

[Fadge]

I had Carlton supporters crack a hissy fit in another thread because I rated Newcombe and Day ahead of Walsh - they weren't game enough to make the comment in this thread, where we'd have Hawthorn supporters weigh in on the discussion.

Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

is 24 years old and had an outstanding year in 2021 - 30 votes in the Brownlow Medal, and Carlton's best and fairest, and an outstanding 2023 finals series. However, he hasn't been able to recapture that 2021 form consistently since, acknowledging he has been hampered with various injury issues. Since 2021, he has polled 35 votes in 54 games in the Brownlow, and finished 3rd, 9th and 3rd in his club's best and fairest.

Jai Newcombe is 23 years old and polled 53 votes from 67 games in the Brownlow over the past 3 seasons, in a lesser team than Walsh for the first two seasons, and has finished 2nd, 2nd and 1st in his club best and fairest over the past 3 seasons. He is clearly ahead of Walsh going into 2025.

Will Day is not so clear cut, but he is also a year younger than Walsh and has proven his best football is up there with the best players in the competition. In his only near complete season - 2023 where he only missed two games, he won his club's best and fairest, and we all saw how much better he made his side in 2024 when he returned from injury.

I have no qualms in having more confidence in these two players producing greater output in 2025 than Walsh. If Walsh recaptures his best form and does it consistently, it could be a close contest, but I'm pretty confident with my ranking of Newcombe ahead of Day, who is ahead of Walsh.

Thoughts?

 

[carlton_99]

Self own of the week.

So much effort went into it too.

Commendable.

Not sure what you found to be a "self own" in that post

 

[carlton_99]

I had Carlton supporters crack a hissy fit in another thread because I rated Newcombe and Day ahead of Walsh - they weren't game enough to make the comment in this thread, where we'd have Hawthorn supporters weigh in on the discussion.

Sam Walsh is 24 years old and had an outstanding year in 2021 - 30 votes in the Brownlow Medal, and Carlton's best and fairest, and an outstanding 2023 finals series. However, he hasn't been able to recapture that 2021 form consistently since, acknowledging he has been hampered with various injury issues. Since 2021, he has polled 35 votes in 54 games in the Brownlow, and finished 3rd, 9th and 3rd in his club's best and fairest.

Jai Newcombe is 23 years old and polled 53 votes from 67 games in the Brownlow over the past 3 seasons, in a lesser team than Walsh for the first two seasons, and has finished 2nd, 2nd and 1st in his club best and fairest over the past 3 seasons. He is clearly ahead of Walsh going into 2025.

Will Day is not so clear cut, but he is also a year younger than Walsh and has proven his best football is up there with the best players in the competition. In his only near complete season - 2023 where he only missed two games, he won his club's best and fairest, and we all saw how much better he made his side in 2024 when he returned from injury.

I have no qualms in having more confidence in these two players producing greater output in 2025 than Walsh. If Walsh recaptures his best form and does it consistently, it could be a close contest, but I'm pretty confident with my ranking of Newcombe ahead of Day, who is ahead of Walsh.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are using Brownlow votes as your evidence is laughable

 

[Fadge]

My thoughts are using Brownlow votes as your evidence is laughable

Feel free to counter the assessment.

 

[carlton_99]

Feel free to counter the assessment.

I like Newcombe and especially Day and think they are becoming stars of the competition but over the last two years Walsh has still been the better player. We saw in his 2023 finals series despite significant injuries what impact he has and imo Day/Newcombe have not reached that to date.

 

[Worm4]

Any surprises who is the no 1 contributor in a hawthorn/Carlton thread ?
FmD

 

[Chief]

So your "2 to 1" comment was serious?

Once the team got it right, we scored 71 to the Lions 39. With a team held together with strapping tape. Now be off to the banter thread with any more.

 

[Iceman!]

He is big but not quick.

And he is the Hawks #1 mid.

How many other clubs would he be the #1 mid?

I would suggest none. Will be interested in Hawks fans thoughts on where he ranks compared to other clubs. And the Lols I will put in the 'yep I have nothing" column.

No surprise who the first lol was from.

So Lad which other club is Newcombe the #1 mid at?

He would clearly and easily be the best mid at your club... Before even getting in to any other clubs. Also he isn't clearly our best, a fit Day is right alongside him.

 

[adammania9]

Newcombe needs more consistency in his game IMO.

He is big but not quick.

And he is the Hawks #1 mid.

How many other clubs would he be the #1 mid?

I would suggest none. Will be interested in Hawks fans thoughts on where he ranks compared to other clubs. And the Lols I will put in the 'yep I have nothing" column.

No surprise who the first lol was from.

So Lad which other club is Newcombe the #1 mid at?

Newcombe is an absolute stud. He is the 2nd best midfielder between the two lists

 

[Fadge]

I like Newcombe and especially Day and think they are becoming stars of the competition but over the last two years Walsh has still been the better player. We saw in his 2023 finals series despite significant injuries what impact he has and imo Day/Newcombe have not reached that to date.

There is no way known Walsh has been better than Newcombe over the past 2 or even 3 years. You're focussing your argument on Walsh's 2023 finals series - did you happen to see Newcombe's finals performances this year?

 

[Iceman!]

I like Newcombe and especially Day and think they are becoming stars of the competition but over the last two years Walsh has still been the better player. We saw in his 2023 finals series despite significant injuries what impact he has and imo Day/Newcombe have not reached that to date.

In his first final Newcombe had 35 disposals, 1 goal, 10 score involvements. Not sure finals impact is a reason to put Walsh ahead of Newc.

I rate Walsh really highly and am not claiming Newc or Day are way better players. They all belong in a similar tier of player at this stage.

 

[Obeanie1]

The guy who’s finished 2nd, 2nd and 1st in the last 3 Peter Crimmin’s medals needs to be more consistent.

Stop talking about a team that you clearly know nothing about.

Just list what team you believe Newcombe would be the #1 mid at. Simple.

We are comparing the Hawks best mid to other teams best mid. Not how a Hawks player compared at a B&F competing against his own teammates. Not relevant.

Being a decent player compared to your own teammates doesn't win football games or flags does it? You need to be better than your opposition. I'm pretty sure I understand that quite well enough.