Who will be better in 2025 - Geelong or Hawthorn?

[Dewyyyyy]

Think there’s a few youngsters for Geelong who could break this discussion open.

Neale could genuinely break open into a dominant power forward, he is extremely promising.

Dempsey and how he continues his development and what role.

And Bailey Smiths impact as a full time mid.

Could very quickly and easily change Geelongs fortunes for future seasons especially 2025.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I do think we will struggle to match that wave of momentum that we had in the back half of the year however I also think we will start better than 1-6 so that should balance it out a bit.

I agree there is a chance we go backwards. The markets have us as 2nd or 3rd favourites. Personally, I think we stay in the 5-8 range

No one can definitely say Hawthorn will or won’t be in the 8 or even top 4. It’s not even pre season yet.

 

[iameviljez]

He’s easily a 50 goal a year player even in a poor side, he was Hawthorns boom or bust but returns to a top 8 side with better delivery, laughable takes from others.

I wouldn't say that he's "easily" that, because even before the injury he was only tracking bang on that figure.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I wouldn't say that he's "easily" that, because even before the injury he was only tracking bang on that figure.

Played injured in 2023 for a few games at the backend, kicked 20 in like 5/6 games once he came back originally. I say easily because no interruptions, full season he is well and truly already on track for that mark, would’ve done better than it had he not played injured aswell. It’s all about maintaining his fitness and keeping him on the park, he plays a super physical brand which doesn’t help.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I wouldn't say that he's "easily" that, because even before the injury he was only tracking bang on that figure.

I wouldn’t say easily either, but it’s worth remembering that he had quite a high goal average in a side that was most likely bottom 4 for inside 50s.

 

[iameviljez]

I wouldn’t say easily either, but it’s worth remembering that he had quite a high goal average in a side that was most likely bottom 4 for inside 50s.

Just be aware that 50 is a lot in the modern game, and he will actually be competing to be the target (for once).

Only 6 players kicked 50+ this year.

 

[WillHayward]

Both will be playing finals imo

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I wouldn’t say easily either, but it’s worth remembering that he had quite a high goal average in a side that was most likely bottom 4 for inside 50s.

Just be aware that 50 is a lot in the modern game, and he will actually be competing to be the target (for once).

Only 6 players kicked 50+ this year.

36 and 37 goals last two seasons 2022/23 where he was even able to play consistently.

15 games in a side bottom 4 for inside 50s, on track for 7 games more (full season) and would’ve needed just 13 and 14 goals from 7 games at an average of 2 goals and 1.8 goals a game, his seasonal average was 2.5.

Which means he kicks 50 both years despite being in a poor side, whilst he also played injured for decent portions.

 

[ShadowCat]

Think a big difference is the fact Hawthorn are younger and getting better whereas Geelong do have players like that but have a lot either in their prime or getting to the backend of it. Good depth for both sides and would both be top 8 sides well and truly.

You don't think Geelong is getting younger? These players from the list of 33 I posted, are all 26 and under:

Geelong (20)

Miers
Holmes
Zuthrie
J. Henry
Close
Stengle
Dempsey
S. Neale
Bowes
O. Henry
Bruhn
J. Clark
SDK
B. Smith
L. Humphries
C. O'Sullivan
Conway
Clohesy
Knevitt
Mullin

vs Hawks (22)

Newcombe
Worpel
Dear
Ginnivan
M. Lewis
Morrison
Jiath
Battle
W. Day
Nash
D. Moore
Scrimshaw
Watson
Meek
D'Ambrosio
Weddle
C. Mackenzie
C Macdonald
Maginness
Blanck
Hustwaite
Ward

It's become a bit of a fallacy that we're just eternally 'old.' Fact is, we've actually been focusing on youth and Jack Martin at 29 is the oldest player we've brought in via draft or trade for the last 4 years. Given you guys have been called the 'youthful/baby Hawks', there's actually not that much difference when it comes to our youth profiles. It's the 26-30 bracket that you're doing better in, whereas our guys are more 30-34, which is where we'll need to get more in that 26-30 bracket to replace them, alongside drafting some more guys in the 18-21 (mature age) bracket.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Given you guys have been called the 'youthful/baby Hawks', there's actually not that much difference when it comes to our youth profiles.

Come on man, one list is the second youngest in the comp, and the other is the second oldest.

 

[ShadowCat]

Come on man, one list is the second youngest in the comp, and the other is the second oldest.

View attachment 2137219

Lol, I compared those 26 and under...hence the word 'youth' being key. We're trending downwards year by year, and Hawkins, Tuohy and Rohan going, is just bringing that down further. Next year, it'll be Duncan, Stanley, possibly C. Guthrie and Bews. Danger, T. Atkins, Stewart, Blics, J. Cameron and J. Martin (depth) will be 30 or over by that point - 6 players out of 44.

In 2026, every other player will be under 30 - which will be exactly the same as Hawthorn with 6 over 30 (Barass, Impey, Sicily, Amon, Frost and Gunston (depth) - assuming Breust retires and Gunston stays on for 1 more season given he's only 32.

It's skewed right now because Duncan Stanley and Bews have gone on, but what I'm saying is, let's come back and compare in 12 months time, as I imagine it'll be a lot closer age-wise heading into 2027 (hence why I was comparing youth profiles and our list builds).

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You don't think Geelong is getting younger? These players from the list of 33 I posted, are all 26 and under:

Geelong (20)

Miers
Holmes
Zuthrie
J. Henry
Close
Stengle
Dempsey
S. Neale
Bowes
O. Henry
Bruhn
J. Clark
SDK
B. Smith
L. Humphries
C. O'Sullivan
Conway
Clohesy
Knevitt
Mullin

vs Hawks (22)

Newcombe
Worpel
Dear
Ginnivan
M. Lewis
Morrison
Jiath
Battle
W. Day
Nash
D. Moore
Scrimshaw
Watson
Meek
D'Ambrosio
Weddle
C. Mackenzie
C Macdonald
Maginness
Blanck
Hustwaite
Ward

It's become a bit of a fallacy that we're just eternally 'old.' Fact is, we've actually been focusing on youth and Jack Martin at 29 is the oldest player we've brought in via draft or trade for the last 4 years. Given you guys have been called the 'youthful/baby Hawks', there's actually not that much difference when it comes to our youth profiles. It's the 26-30 bracket that you're doing better in, whereas our guys are more 30-34, which is where we'll need to get more in that 26-30 bracket to replace them, alongside drafting some more guys in the 18-21 (mature age) bracket.

It’s clearly A a lot of Geelongs best side are still dominated by prime aged or older players, their replacements are the younger ones who get rotated in, they become prime aged players, the prime become old and new youth comes in, it’s why Geelong have been able to maintain their position for so long. They’re still an older side whilst Hawthorn are dominated with youth and it’s driven by that, so the room for improvement is clearly greater.

B is the quality of youth definitely favours Hawthorn.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Lol, I compared those 26 and under...hence the word 'youth' being key. We're trending downwards year by year, and Hawkins, Tuohy and Rohan going, is just bringing that down further. Next year, it'll be Duncan, Stanley, possibly C. Guthrie and Bews. Danger, T. Atkins, Stewart, Blics, J. Cameron and J. Martin (depth) will be 30 or over by that point - 6 players out of 44.

In 2026, every other player will be under 30 - which will be exactly the same as Hawthorn with 6 over 30 (Barass, Impey, Sicily, Amon, Frost and Gunston (depth) - assuming Breust retires and Gunston stays on for 1 more season given he's only 32.

It's skewed right now because Duncan Stanley and Bews have gone on, but what I'm saying is, let's come back and compare in 12 months time, as I imagine it'll be a lot closer age-wise heading into 2027 (hence why I was comparing youth profiles and our list builds).

Gunston and Breust only have a year left most likely. Frost would be pushing it to stay given how much key position defensive depth there is.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Hilarious that when the Darling Buds were at the bottom of the ladder for the past couple of years, they lived vicariously through the Tiggers to troll Geelong.

Now that the Tiggers are now set to be regular cellar dwellers for who knows how long, they are now cashing in on that favour and living vicariously through the apparently rising Darling Buds to troll Geelong.

It’s wonderful seeing Geelong headf^ckery bring rival clubs together, a touching moment that wouldn't otherwise happen.

Why so upset Geelong supporters pride themselves on making up the numbers. It’s a win-win for everyone

 

[Xtreme]

Geeze these hawks are up and about after 1 season in the 8.

1 swallow doesnt make a summer.

2 Phones Chol and Mitch Lewis your key forwards.... Sheesh..

Both miles better than addled Stengle and Cameron.

Hawks are on the way up
Catters just like Coles and PM Albo are trending down down.

Even Richmond and North Melbourne have more upside.

But the addition of Bailey Smith will ensure Geelong stays in the headlines while playing for the wooden spoon.

 

[tucky74]

Both miles better than addled Stengle and Cameron.

Hawks are on the way up
Catters just like Coles and PM Albo are trending down down.

Even Richmond and North Melbourne have more upside.

But the addition of Bailey Smith will ensure Geelong stays in the headlines while playing for the wooden spoon.

That’s a terrible take,cats are in a far better place than the tigers.

 

[sleep]

2023
Only 15 games.
25th Coleman (total). (36)
8th Coleman (average). (2.5)

Played games injured.

Still managed 13 disposals a game, 2.5 goals, 5.7 marks, 1.3 contested marks, 6.4 score inv etc

When he first came back against the Dogs he had 1.4 (16 disp 2 ga 11 si) with 11 marks and 3 contested marks.
This after small patch of thumpings, lead him to.
6 goals, 24 disposals (8 shots on goal) 8 marks against West Coast
3 goals 2 behinds 5 marks against St Kilda
3 goals 2 behinds 20 disposals (3 ga 13 si) 8 marks against Port Adelaide
4 goals 1 behind 6 marks against Brisbane
2 goals 15 disposals 4 marks in a thrashing by Gold Coast
2 goals against Carlton in a downer game

20 goals - 6 games
3.3 per game

On par with others like Hawkins, Daniher, Hogan etc.

He was rated elite for big portions of 2022 aswell, where he kicked 2.5 goals a game again, 37 for the year from just 15 games (5 marks, 1.5 contested) 6 score inv.

25th (total) (37) - Coleman
6th (average (2.5) - Coleman

Again.

To think when he is fit, he is definitely an A Grade forward, to think otherwise shows how little you know or little you watch of him.

Poor mans Matt Taberner

C grader at best.

 

[sleep]

Why are you getting so upset that Hawthorn supporters aren't bending the knee to the almighty Geelong, and conceding you'll be much better than us? Is that what you expect?

Thats a good start....

 

[PhatBoy]

Come on man, one list is the second youngest in the comp, and the other is the second oldest.

View attachment 2137219

We have Dangerfield, Duncan, Stanley, Cam Guthrie and Mark Blicavs who will all be 34 next year aside from Guthrie and it’s doubtful any of them aside from Dangerfield and Blicavs will be anything more than depth players if everyone is fit. I would hope so anyway because Conway is a much brighter option than Stanley.

That skews things just a bit relative to the actual side we will likely be fielding

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Poor mans Matt Taberner

C grader at best.

So you’re a troll. Gotcha

 

[sleep]

2023
Only 15 games.
25th Coleman (total). (36)
8th Coleman (average). (2.5)

Played games injured.

Still managed 13 disposals a game, 2.5 goals, 5.7 marks, 1.3 contested marks, 6.4 score inv etc

When he first came back against the Dogs he had 1.4 (16 disp 2 ga 11 si) with 11 marks and 3 contested marks.
This after small patch of thumpings, lead him to.
6 goals, 24 disposals (8 shots on goal) 8 marks against West Coast
3 goals 2 behinds 5 marks against St Kilda
3 goals 2 behinds 20 disposals (3 ga 13 si) 8 marks against Port Adelaide
4 goals 1 behind 6 marks against Brisbane
2 goals 15 disposals 4 marks in a thrashing by Gold Coast
2 goals against Carlton in a downer game

20 goals - 6 games
3.3 per game

On par with others like Hawkins, Daniher, Hogan etc.

He was rated elite for big portions of 2022 aswell, where he kicked 2.5 goals a game again, 37 for the year from just 15 games (5 marks, 1.5 contested) 6 score inv.

25th (total) (37) - Coleman
6th (average (2.5) - Coleman

Again.

To think when he is fit, he is definitely an A Grade forward, to think otherwise shows how little you know or little you watch of him.

Tabby = Mitch "Tabby" Lewis



You're the troll...

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

We have Dangerfield, Duncan, Stanley, Cam Guthrie and Mark Blicavs who will all be 34 next year aside from Guthrie and it’s doubtful any of them aside from Dangerfield and Blicavs will be anything more than depth players if everyone is fit. I would hope so anyway because Conway is a much brighter option than Stanley.

That skews things just a bit relative to the actual side we will likely be fielding

Yes, but the poster in question seemed to be a bit perplexed as to the second younest list in the comp being called young.

Cats will likely be younger in 12-24 months time, but the Hawks were absolutely a clearly younger side in 2024.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Tabby = Mitch "Tabby" Lewis

View attachment 2137656

You're the troll...

2021 but what numbers are what buddy?

Also Taberner is delisted for a reason

 

[joe444]

I literally don't care what anyone thinks about this.

I'd be more interested in discussing how many meaningless polls the OP will put up in 2025.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Come on man, one list is the second youngest in the comp, and the other is the second oldest.

View attachment 2137219

You don't think Geelong is getting younger? These players from the list of 33 I posted, are all 26 and under:

Geelong (20)

Miers
Holmes
Zuthrie
J. Henry
Close
Stengle
Dempsey
S. Neale
Bowes
O. Henry
Bruhn
J. Clark
SDK
B. Smith
L. Humphries
C. O'Sullivan
Conway
Clohesy
Knevitt
Mullin

vs Hawks (22)

Newcombe
Worpel
Dear
Ginnivan
M. Lewis
Morrison
Jiath
Battle
W. Day
Nash
D. Moore
Scrimshaw
Watson
Meek
D'Ambrosio
Weddle
C. Mackenzie
C Macdonald
Maginness
Blanck
Hustwaite
Ward

It's become a bit of a fallacy that we're just eternally 'old.' Fact is, we've actually been focusing on youth and Jack Martin at 29 is the oldest player we've brought in via draft or trade for the last 4 years. Given you guys have been called the 'youthful/baby Hawks', there's actually not that much difference when it comes to our youth profiles. It's the 26-30 bracket that you're doing better in, whereas our guys are more 30-34, which is where we'll need to get more in that 26-30 bracket to replace them, alongside drafting some more guys in the 18-21 (mature age) bracket.

The only fallacy I can see here is the one you're trying to create, and it literally took a graph for you to come to grips with the idea.

How many of your most important players are over the age of 30?

Your most important players are fairly significant to a conversation like this.

As has been pointed out several times earlier in this thread.