Who will be better in 2026? Geelong or Hawthorn.

[Dewyyyyy]

I disagree. That group was able to go toe to toe with some strong Geelong, Collingwood, Sydney and Fremantle midfields.

Look at the players kicking inside 50 from stoppages or the next link in the chain: Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Burgoyne, Roughead, Rioli.

Simply elite.

The rest of the role players were more like Hawthorn's current crop outside of Newcombe (only adding Day to these discussions when he gets through a big block of AFL games).

That Hawthorn 2013-2015 midfield rotation would absolutely smoke the current one, even with Day.

I simply don’t agree that it was that good. I also don’t disagree that it would beat the current midfield, purely because not on talent because talent wise I think the current crop is highly regarded. More so the lack of continuity and understanding of what the midfield core will be or look like.

When you look at the 2013-15 midfield. A lot of the names you mentioned were rotational pieces.

The core midfield and supported by CBAs were Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell, Shiels and Langford. Hodge still spent a decent time in there but was in the low tens. Then Burgoyne, Cyril, Roughy etc were less than 10.

It was a good midfield don’t get me wrong, the team was great and won a three peat for a reason.

The point was compare that go other great premiership teams with really deep and super talented midfields and Hawthorns doesn’t stack up, but there bookends and spine were so good it didn’t matter. The midfield was good enough. It didn’t need to be star studded to be as good as they were.

Obviously the go get of Merrett was to try and fast track that, by also simultaneously getting an A Grade midfielder ontop of what was already there.

Which brings me to my original point that you don’t need an absolutely elite midfield to compete. The quality and talent is there and it’s good enough, it’ll to be seen how it works and structures up, but it won’t be because of lack of options or talent.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

It absolutely does stack up, every year we were contending it was among the best in the comp if not the best.

That group not only had elite top end talent but was batting super deep.

Again was less of a comparison to teams at the time and more about other premiership teams who had unbelievable midfields but weren’t as strong at either end as Hawthorn were.

Hawthorn now aren’t at that level of a team, but the point was that the midfield just needs to compete, and there’s enough talent and quality there for it to grow into a very good group. Being competitive enough in there with the bookends currently will see Hawthorn be there abouts.

 

[Mr Meow]

I simply don’t agree that it was that good. I also don’t disagree that it would beat the current midfield, purely because not on talent because talent wise I think the current crop is highly regarded. More so the lack of continuity and understanding of what the midfield core will be or look like.

When you look at the 2013-15 midfield. A lot of the names you mentioned were rotational pieces.

The core midfield and supported by CBAs were Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell, Shiels and Langford. Hodge still spent a decent time in there but was in the low tens. Then Burgoyne, Cyril, Roughy etc were less than 10.

It was a good midfield don’t get me wrong, the team was great and won a three peat for a reason.

The point was compare that go other great premiership teams with really deep and super talented midfields and Hawthorns doesn’t stack up, but there bookends and spine were so good it didn’t matter. The midfield was good enough. It didn’t need to be star studded to be as good as they were.

Obviously the go get of Merrett was to try and fast track that, by also simultaneously getting an A Grade midfielder ontop of what was already there.

Which brings me to my original point that you don’t need an absolutely elite midfield to compete. The quality and talent is there and it’s good enough, it’ll to be seen how it works and structures up, but it won’t be because of lack of options or talent.

The last few names all added up to one elite full time rotation though. The 3rd to join Mitchell and Lewis. Importantly so many 9/10 ball users. It's fine for you to underrate them but they were several levels above this crop. Especially because we barely see Day, which is like taking Mitchell out of that other group most of the time.

The current Hawks midfield group is 2024 Geelong level, possibly pushing higher once Day gets that 10 game block to show that his body isn't broken.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

The last few names all added up to one elite full time rotation though. The 3rd to join Mitchell and Lewis. Importantly so many 9/10 ball users. It's fine for you to underrate them but they were several levels above this crop. Especially because we barely see Day, which is like taking Mitchell out of that other group most of the time.

Again comparatively to other premiership teams it is notably weaker than some others.

Eagles of the 2000s
Geelong before Ablett left
Lions three peat.

But Hawthorn had beyond elite bookends which meant they didn’t need a star studded midfield group. They had a very good group but again comparatively not to that level.

Which was my point originally, that the group now just needs to be good enough, as the bookends are strong, to compete.

It wasn’t making a comparison to the established quality or how good etc between the two as one was a three peat team and one has made only made a prelim thus far.

 

[Mr Meow]

Again comparatively to other premiership teams it is notably weaker than some others.

Eagles of the 2000s
Geelong before Ablett left
Lions three peat.

But Hawthorn had beyond elite bookends which meant they didn’t need a star studded midfield group. They had a very good group but again comparatively not to that level.

Which was my point originally, that the group now just needs to be good enough, as the bookends are strong, to compete.

It wasn’t making a comparison to the established quality or how good etc between the two as one was a three peat team and one has made only made a prelim thus far.

My point is that the Hawks 3peat midfield rotations added up to an elite unit, in particular because of half a dozen scarily good ball users. The current Hawthorn side has those on one wing and all of the flanks, but the same was true for that 3peat team. A weakness of the current Hawks team is that the main 6 or 7 guys rolling through there aren't as damaging a collective as the 3peat midfield group. A similar story for Geelong actually, the run is insanely good but the delivery is haphazard. Compare that to the basic skills and smart decision making of Ablett, Bartel and Selwood (and Corey by hand).

 

[Dewyyyyy]

My point is that the Hawks 3peat midfield rotations added up to an elite unit, in particular because of half a dozen scarily good ball users. The current Hawthorn side has those on one wing and all of the flanks, but the same was true for that 3peat team. A weakness of the current Hawks team is that the main 6 or 7 guys rolling through there aren't as damaging a collective as the 3peat midfield group. A similar story for Geelong actually, the run is insanely good but the delivery is haphazard. Compare that to the basic skills of Ablett, Bartel and Selwood (and Corey by hand).

Yeah get what you mean and that wasn’t what I was disagreeing with. Because it was a good group, just don’t see it in the top echelon of some of the other premiership teams. Great in its own regard and it’s not worth comparing to the current crop.

Most of the group now bar Newcombe aren’t established, Day can’t stay fit. The point was tho as I said, that if the midfield can be good enough, which is definitely possible given the talent and quality available. Then the team can definitely compete, given how good the bookends are.

 

[Mr Meow]

Yeah get what you mean and that wasn’t what I was disagreeing with. Because it was a good group, just don’t see it in the top echelon of some of the other premiership teams. Great in its own regard and it’s not worth comparing to the current crop.

Most of the group now bar Newcombe aren’t established, Day can’t stay fit. The point was tho as I said, that if the midfield can be good enough, which is definitely possible given the talent and quality available. Then the team can definitely compete, given how good the bookends are.

Fair enough. I agree that Hawthorn have an elite defence and a strong group of forwards (ideally Lewis has a career best season to solidify that). The midfield question is going to come down to what the hell happens with Day, then how Ward + Mackenzie develop. Maybe Weddle as a wildcard? I feel like there needs to be one more guy in there with X factor or explosiveness. Watson may provide it in higher doses but the jury is out.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Yeah get what you mean and that wasn’t what I was disagreeing with. Because it was a good group, just don’t see it in the top echelon of some of the other premiership teams. Great in its own regard and it’s not worth comparing to the current crop.

Most of the group now bar Newcombe aren’t established, Day can’t stay fit. The point was tho as I said, that if the midfield can be good enough, which is definitely possible given the talent and quality available. Then the team can definitely compete, given how good the bookends are.

But this is still underselling it and the analogy doesn’t really work. The Hawthorn three peat midfield may not have been quite on the level of the other all time great ones, but it was clearly one of the top midfield groups in the competition and often the best.

So it wasn’t just a good midfield, that midfield group would win us games because it was that good.

You can try and cut it anyway you want, having 2 or maybe 3 genuine proven fit midfielders coming in to the year is a concern and anytime you are banking on multiple unproven mids making the leap at the time to compete you are often up against it in that area.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I disagree. That group was able to go toe to toe with some strong Geelong, Collingwood, Sydney and Fremantle midfields.

Look at the players kicking inside 50 from stoppages or the next link in the chain: Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Burgoyne, Roughead, Rioli.

Simply elite.

The rest of the role players were more like Hawthorn's current crop outside of Newcombe (only adding Day to these discussions when he gets through a big block of AFL games).

That Hawthorn 2013-2015 midfield rotation would absolutely smoke the current one, even with Day.

You’re talking to someone who was possibly 8 or 9 years old at the time. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[SSSSSS]

Am I tripping balls here or are we seriously comparing the 2013-2015 Premiership midfield to our current line up of mids?

That 2013-2015 midfield was absolutely elite. Forget what the stats say they were maximum damage and hard as nails.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Fair enough. I agree that Hawthorn have an elite defence and a strong group of forwards (ideally Lewis has a career best season to solidify that). The midfield question is going to come down to what the hell happens with Day, then how Ward + Mackenzie develop. Maybe Weddle as a wildcard? I feel like there needs to be one more guy in there with X factor or explosiveness. Watson may provide it in higher doses but the jury is out.

Without Day it’ll look something like

Newcombe Nash Ward

MacDonald, Mackenzie, Butler

Weddle, Watson, Moore

Then you can add Day post mid year.

It again comes down to how it structures up, who gets the allotted CBAs, how much do the rotations go in etc.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

But this is still underselling it and the analogy doesn’t really work. The Hawthorn three peat midfield may not have been quite on the level of the other all time great ones, but it was clearly one of the top midfield groups in the competition and often the best.

So it wasn’t just a good midfield, that midfield group would win us games because it was that good.

You can try and cut it anyway you want, having 2 or maybe 3 genuine proven fit midfielders coming in to the year is a concern and anytime you are banking on multiple unproven mids making the leap at the time to compete you are often up against it in that area.

The analogy works because the midfield i believe wasn’t the reason Hawthorn were good. They were good because of their bookends, structure, talent all over the ground and elite foot skills.

Again not saying they didn’t have a good midfield.

Apart of this too was the incredible depth available that Hawthorn had, which included the evenness over the field.

It works to an extent, as much as you can get out of a premiership to non premiership comparison.

It was still about having a good enough midfield, but not needing a current Brisbane, Suns etc team to compete. It may be needed to win a flag but in regards to competing or being there abouts I don’t believe so.

There’s
3 proven midfielders with Newcombe, Ward and Nash. 4 with Day, 5 with Mackenzie (best 22 before injury).

The only change to that which is a given considering Worpel leaving. Will be some positional changes and more rotations.

MacDonald
Watson, Weddle, Moore, Butler

Weddle has already been around the ball last year, Moore spent large stints as a midfielder and did a good job, Butler made the transition last year and was also able to play a good role as a fwd-mid.

MacDonald training all pre-season as a midfielder, Watson getting more midfield time than he did last year.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, there is no concern over quality or talent. I can understand uncertainty over how it’ll structure up, and gel together. That was a concern with the backline when Battle and Barrass first came over aswell.

Edit:

To be ultra clear, this is not a comparison of Hawthorns three peat side to the current midfield. One won a three peat and was very good, and one is still in the teething stage with uncertainty over how it structures up.

It is purely about not needing just an elite midfield to compete. Having a midfield who can at the least compete will mean you can compete generally speaking.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You’re talking to someone who was possibly 8 or 9 years old at the time. Take it with a grain of salt.

You do realise that every single game is available to watch whenever and wherever you please.

If I wanted to go rewatch any game from the 2010s I can, and have. And you’re also off anyway.

If it was about the 80s then sure, I don’t talk about that because I’ve got no idea.

But good job

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You do realise that every single game is available to watch whenever and wherever you please.

If I wanted to go rewatch any game from the 2010s I can, and have. And you’re also off anyway.

If it was about the 80s then sure, I don’t talk about that because I’ve got no idea.

But good job

You're talking down a midfield that played off in 4 straight GF's and dominated games through that period.

Am I tripping balls here or are we seriously comparing the 2013-2015 Premiership midfield to our current line up of mids?

That 2013-2015 midfield was absolutely elite. Forget what the stats say they were maximum damage and hard as nails.

The HFC identified Hodge and Mitchell as generational talents that they needed to win multiple flags with, and they did, by adding another superstar like Burgoyne.
Having stars like Lewis, Smith, Sewell and Shiels roll through on top of that was the icing on the cake and they dominated teams as a consequence.

 

[SSSSSS]

You're talking down a midfield that played off in 4 straight GF's and dominated games through that period.



The HFC identified Hodge and Mitchell as generational talents that they needed to win multiple flags with, and they did, by adding another superstar like Burgoyne.
Having stars like Lewis, Smith, Sewell and Shiels roll through on top of that was the icing on the cake and they dominated teams as a consequence.

Hill very underrated in our 3peat. Roughy and Rioli rolled through on occasion and were both devastating at times.

We had the quality to match the best and unparalleled depth through the middle.

It's crazy how our midfield is underrated - apparently even by our own supporters.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You're talking down a midfield that played off in 4 straight GF's and dominated games through that period.



The HFC identified Hodge and Mitchell as generational talents that they needed to win multiple flags with, and they did, by adding another superstar like Burgoyne.
Having stars like Lewis, Smith, Sewell and Shiels roll through on top of that was the icing on the cake and they dominated teams as a consequence.

It’s just an opinion that it was obviously good but it wasn’t as strong as some of the other premiership sides I mentioned? Which is true.

Smith was a winger, Sewell and Shiels weren’t stars but good role players who were still good.

Undoubtedly good because of as mentioned, the depth first and foremost but also the dynamic rotations and the core of Mitchell and Lewis, or Hodge too when he played in there.

Again nothing I said was outrageous, it was obviously a good midfield and a great side. But comparing them to say Brisbanes three peat, they stack up as a team but the midfield isn’t to on that level. It didn’t need to be.

The whole point was that if you have a good enough midfield and the bookends are at a high level you will compete. They had more than just a “good enough” midfield which is why they won flags. But again comparatively to other great sides, it was a different dynamic.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

The analogy works because the midfield i believe wasn’t the reason Hawthorn were good. They were good because of their bookends, structure, talent all over the ground and elite foot skills.

Again not saying they didn’t have a good midfield.

Apart of this too was the incredible depth available that Hawthorn had, which included the evenness over the field.

It works to an extent, as much as you can get out of a premiership to non premiership comparison.

It was still about having a good enough midfield, but not needing a current Brisbane, Suns etc team to compete. It may be needed to win a flag but in regards to competing or being there abouts I don’t believe so.

There’s
3 proven midfielders with Newcombe, Ward and Nash. 4 with Day, 5 with Mackenzie (best 22 before injury).

The only change to that which is a given considering Worpel leaving. Will be some positional changes and more rotations.

MacDonald
Watson, Weddle, Moore, Butler

Weddle has already been around the ball last year, Moore spent large stints as a midfielder and did a good job, Butler made the transition last year and was also able to play a good role as a fwd-mid.

MacDonald training all pre-season as a midfielder, Watson getting more midfield time than he did last year.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, there is no concern over quality or talent. I can understand uncertainty over how it’ll structure up, and gel together. That was a concern with the backline when Battle and Barrass first came over aswell.

Edit:

To be ultra clear, this is not a comparison of Hawthorns three peat side to the current midfield. One won a three peat and was very good, and one is still in the teething stage with uncertainty over how it structures up.

It is purely about not needing just an elite midfield to compete. Having a midfield who can at the least compete will mean you can compete generally speaking.

Then you are just wrong, our midfield may not have been our best line but it was incredible and absolutely one of the key reasons we won.

You may not think you are, but you are severely underrating that midfield.

 

[Elixuh]

You're talking down a midfield that played off in 4 straight GF's and dominated games through that period.

That list over-performed as a result of years of compromised drafts, the addition of two new teams to the comp and the infancy of FA. And high end priority picks.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

You do realise that every single game is available to watch whenever and wherever you please.

If I wanted to go rewatch any game from the 2010s I can, and have. And you’re also off anyway.

If it was about the 80s then sure, I don’t talk about that because I’ve got no idea.

But good job

Id highly recommend giving them another rewatch then mate

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Hill very underrated in our 3peat. Roughy and Rioli rolled through on occasion and were both devastating at times.

We had the quality to match the best and unparalleled depth through the middle.

It's crazy how our midfield is underrated - apparently even by our own supporters.

It is weird to think Hill is still playing, he was so young during that period. Which you wouldn’t think if you just watched him play, as he was a quality winger.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Id highly recommend giving them another rewatch then mate

Don’t have to ask me twice, it’s enjoyment.

Maybe it’s my bad the way I conveyed my opinion.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

That list over-performed as a result of years of compromised drafts, the addition of two new teams to the comp and the infancy of FA.

I hope you hold the same view of these Brisbane premierships if that’s the case

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Then you are just wrong, our midfield may not have been our best line but it was incredible and absolutely one of the key reasons we won.

You may not think you are, but you are severely underrating that midfield.

Yeah maybe I am, comparative to the time and comparative to other premiership sides I named is different tho.

It was good but maybe I am undervaluing it. Definitely plausible.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

That list over-performed as a result of years of compromised drafts, the addition of two new teams to the comp and the infancy of FA.

An interesting perspective that’s often raised. How much would have a difference would a normal draft and FA make to Hawthorns success during that period. It’s unknown, and I think it’d have less impact on that period and more during the aftermath post 2015.

 

[Elixuh]

I hope you hold the same view of these Brisbane premierships if that’s the case

Brisbane pulled itself up by its bootstraps.