Who will be better in 2026? Geelong or Hawthorn.

[Sonny Hayes]

Brisbane pulled itself up by its bootstraps.

Of course they did

 

[Mr Meow]

Hill very underrated in our 3peat. Roughy and Rioli rolled through on occasion and were both devastating at times.

We had the quality to match the best and unparalleled depth through the middle.

It's crazy how our midfield is underrated - apparently even by our own supporters.

I don't think many serious opposition supporters talk down that midfield. Those who do probably gloss over the elite wings and the top class utilities who rolled through there. The forgetful ones probably don't even recall the high impact minutes Roughead and Rioli had around stoppages. A strength of that Hawthorn side, like the Geelong one before it, was the versatility and elite skill level of so many players - most of whom had time around stoppages or the wings.

 

[Mr Meow]

That list over-performed as a result of years of compromised drafts, the addition of two new teams to the comp and the infancy of FA. And high end priority picks.

The new teams had a bigger effect on flags decided around 2016-2021 (and arguably beyond) as that's the time where the 2011-2016 kids could feasibly start performing at a high level together. 2013-2015, there isn't much the 2011-2015 draft windows would have done to interfere with Hawthorn's flag chances if GWS/GC didn't exist.

Recent Brisbane, Geelong and Richmond premiership sides benefited more from free agency than that Hawthorn team, who brought in a lot of quality through great trades over the years.

There was the priority pick boost but a lot of clubs exploited that right up until Brisbane, who traded theirs on to end up with Charlie Cameron.

 

[Lingsface]

If Mitchell Lewis

2

Mitchell Lewis

Age

27

Ht

199cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.5

2star

K

5.9

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.3

3star

G

1.2

4star

D

4.3

1star

K

2.8

1star

HB

1.5

1star

M

0.8

1star

T

0.3

1star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.6

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.6

3star

can make the things he did in the prelim final a consistent thing in his game he could be the difference.

Neale and Mitchell could be the barometer, which one plays better could be the deciding factor. I think one advantage Geelong has is the youthful KPP players that have the ability to take another step forward, Barrass could drop slightly and COS could improve in big ways.

Midfield is very close, it has become a strength of ours with Holmes and Smith being genuine stars, Hawthorn only with Newcombe as a star that will be playing the first half of the season. Where Hawthorn may win is with their depth of rotations with players like Watson, Mcdonald , Ginnivan becoming attacking players that can pinch hit in their midfield to add to players like Moore, Mckenzie and Ward. We have a few like that with Miers, Mannagh, Stewart and Bowes but will be relying on players like Bruhn, Stevens, Clark and Dempsey to develop even more in that are to become options to match Hawthorns depth. I find sides get found out if their rotations aren't of good enough quality. The ruck they win with ease Meek, Reeves and now Schubert are all playing in our side.

 

[Elixuh]

The new teams had a bigger effect on flags decided around 2016-2021 (and arguably beyond) as that's the time where the 2011-2016 kids could feasibly start performing at a high level together. 2013-2015, there isn't much the 2011-2015 draft windows would have done to interfere with Hawthorn's flag chances if GWS/GC didn't exist.

Recent Brisbane, Geelong and Richmond premiership sides benefited more from free agency than that Hawthorn team, who brought in a lot of quality through great trades over the years.

There was the priority pick boost but a lot of clubs exploited that right up until Brisbane, who traded theirs on to end up with Charlie Cameron.

Disagree. We had like 8 teenagers in their first or second year against Geelong in the grand final.

 

[Mr Meow]

Disagree. We had like 8 teenagers in their first or second year against Geelong in the grand final.

There isn't a hell of a lot different with the genesis of the 2024-current Brisbane and 2013-2015 Hawthorn teams besides the former doing it with the academy and FS bonuses (which have pushed the number of high quality kids).

 

[Dewyyyyy]

The new teams had a bigger effect on flags decided around 2016-2021 (and arguably beyond) as that's the time where the 2011-2016 kids could feasibly start performing at a high level together. 2013-2015, there isn't much the 2011-2015 draft windows would have done to interfere with Hawthorn's flag chances if GWS/GC didn't exist.

Recent Brisbane, Geelong and Richmond premiership sides benefited more from free agency than that Hawthorn team, who brought in a lot of quality through great trades over the years.

There was the priority pick boost but a lot of clubs exploited that right up until Brisbane, who traded theirs on to end up with Charlie Cameron.

Agree with you here. That’s what I was thinking.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

That list over-performed as a result of years of compromised drafts, the addition of two new teams to the comp and the infancy of FA. And high end priority picks.

Thats nice dear.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It’s just an opinion that it was obviously good but it wasn’t as strong as some of the other premiership sides I mentioned? Which is true.

No, its not true, its your opinion.

Hawthorn's midfield during those years was always underrated and disregarded by outsiders in favour of clubs who didn't routinely belt their club through the 70's, 80's and 90's.

 

[Mr Meow]

No, its not true, its your opinion.

Hawthorn's midfield during those years was always underrated and disregarded by outsiders in favour of clubs who didn't routinely belt their club through the 70's, 80's and 90's.

The criticism was definitely more towards Hawthorn's defence rather than midfield, but Lake and (to a lesser degree) Frawley helped in that area.

The starting defence in the 2012 GF was:

FB: Birchall, Gibson, Stratton
HB: Suckling, Schoenmakers, Burgoyne

Of course Hodge and Burgoyne would swap too.

Still a good group, but one that an elite forward line could get at - more than the midfield, IMO. The mid-forward dominance meant you usually couldn't get at the defence too heavily though.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

No, its not true, its your opinion.

Hawthorn's midfield during those years was always underrated and disregarded by outsiders in favour of clubs who didn't routinely belt their club through the 70's, 80's and 90's.

Fair enough mate

 

[Tom14]

That list over-performed as a result of years of compromised drafts, the addition of two new teams to the comp and the infancy of FA. And high end priority picks.

Every AFL flag since the start of the century has benefited from at least some sort of list rort barring Tigers 2019-20.

I reckon I can find at least one asterisk for each of the premiers for the last 20 odd years...

2022 Cats - Hawkins F/S under old F/S rules
2021 Dees - Tanking scandal, priority picks, AFL fudging of the FA compo formula to let them get Brayshaw from Frawley leaving
2019-2020 Tiges - could argue getting Lynch as FA when you were the minor premier isn't exactly doing it the hard way, but legitimate enough under the rules, so maybe no asterisk?
2018 West Coast - Shuey a priority selection in 2008
2017 Tiges - Rance a priority end of round 1 selection in 07
2016 Dogs - F/Ss everywhere
2013-15 Hawks - how many priority picks can one team benefit from?
2012 Swans - Couldn't find an obvious asterisk, was before the academy kicked in so fair play to them. Actually as I edit this I forgot COLA, so asterisked they are.
2011 Cats - lots of F/S with Scarlett, Hawk, etc
2010 Pies - priority pick in Dale Thomas (also special shout out to the Saints with Riewoldt as a priority pick after the AFL changed the Brisbane zone the year before to just exclude the gold coast)
2009 Cats - as above
2008 Hawks - as above
2007 Cats - as above
2006 Eagles - Judd a priority pick
2005 Swans - COLA
2004 Port - concessions for establishment in the comp
01-03 Lions - retention allowance, getting Voss, Acker and others as QLD zone selections, Chris Johnson from the fitzroy merger.

Based on me spending 5 minutes thinking about this I'm ready to say that the 2019-20 tiges are the only premier of the last 20 years that don't have an obvious asterisk so fair play to them!

View attachment 2129888


A short list of F/S or other draft/FA/List management rorts affecting recent flags:

2024 Lions - Ashcroft, Fletcher, Hipwood (1st round academy). Andrews and Payne were later Academy picks (though Harris was a second round bid under the old 2014 system)

2023 Pies - Darcy Moore, Daicos x2, Quaynor, Pendles (the priority pick in 2010 was Dale Thomas - but the 'extra' pick was pendles)

2022 Cats - Hawkins F/S under old F/S rules

2021 Dees - Tanking scandal, priority picks, AFL fudging of the FA compo formula to let them get Brayshaw from Frawley leaving, Viney F/S

2019-2020 Tiges - could argue getting Lynch as FA when you were the minor premier isn't exactly doing it the hard way, but legitimate enough under the rules, so maybe no asterisk? 2020 flag a mickey mouse one under COVID conditions.

2018 West Coast - Shuey a priority end of round 1 selection in 2008

2017 Tiges - Rance a priority end of round 1 selection in 07

2016 Dogs - F/Ss everywhere.

2013-15 Hawks - how many priority picks can one team benefit from?

2012 Swans - COLA

2011 Cats - lots of F/S with Scarlett, Hawk, etc

2010 Pies - Pendles - Dale Thomas was the priority pick, but Pendles was the 'extra' pick (as they would have had pick 2 in a system with no priority picks). Also special shout out to the Saints with Riewoldt as a priority pick after the AFL changed the Brisbane zone the year before to just exclude the gold coast.

2009 Cats - as above

2008 Hawks - as above

2007 Cats - as above

2006 Eagles - Judd was the priority pick, but Sampi the extra pick.

2005 Swans - COLA

2004 Port - concessions for establishment in the comp.

01-03 Lions - retention allowance, getting Voss, Acker and others as QLD zone selections, Chris Johnson from the fitzroy merger.

 

[Elixuh]

Every AFL flag since the start of the century has benefited from at least some sort of list rort barring Tigers 2019-20.

And the lions

 

[Tom14]

And the lions

No we had rorts but we deserved ours.

 

[HairyO]

If Mitchell Lewis can make the things he did in the prelim final a consistent thing in his game he could be the difference.

If he plays 20 games he could kick 50 goals which instantly makes Chol, Dear and Gunston better.

 

[Mr Meow]

And the lions

Priority pick traded away, becomes Charlie Cameron.

Daniher for free.

Best in the country father-sons for a bag of chips.

Academy gifts.

 

[Elixuh]

Priority pick traded away, becomes Charlie Cameron.

Daniher for free.

Best in the country father-sons for a bag of chips.

Academy gifts.

 

[Mr Meow]

= no rebuttal. Cheers.

 

[Elixuh]

= no rebuttal. Cheers.

It’s all very upsetting isn’t it

 

[Mr Meow]

It’s all very upsetting isn’t it

I thanked you. Let me know if you're still confused.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Priority pick traded away, becomes Charlie Cameron.

Daniher for free.

Best in the country father-sons for a bag of chips.

Academy gifts.

So no priority pick no Cameron
No Daniher if FA wasn’t a thing
Ashcroft and other FS for cheaper in the draft
General academy benefits.

Didn’t help them apparently, although a compromised draft and free agency period within the league when Hawthorn were already good, was the reason they won a three peat

 

[Mr Meow]

So no priority pick no Cameron
No Daniher if FA wasn’t a thing
Ashcroft and other FS for cheaper in the draft
General academy benefits.

Didn’t help them apparently, although a compromised draft and free agency period within the league when Hawthorn were already good, was the reason they won a three peat

There's a pretty solid case that their academy benefits allowed them to put more trade collateral on the line when required to top up with Neale, Dunkley etc. too. As well as knowing they had the cheap, elite FS's on the way in recent years.

All of which is fine, but they could never cry about another club's success and the path taken there without being giant hypocrites. Luxxy is just a basic troll who tries to cosplay a sincere poster at times anyway.