Opinion Who will be our next head coach?

hypothetically speaking who would you rather coach St Kilda?


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jwikked

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Sep 20, 2009
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Scott can sod off and take his root rat AFL mate with him.
Ratten has a better win loss ratio, has current experience with the club and had the foresight to be the assistant coach of a team when the senior coach was a dud under pressure.
But in AFL land its not what you know but who you know so the North reject is in with a good chance.

He’s only in with a good chance if he’s the right one for the job.

He’s not a good chance just because he’s friends with Lethlean. “Rootrat”? What he did isn’t ideal but it’s not all that uncommon either. He was thrown under the bus for something that wasn’t anyone’s business.

There are multiple people involved in the search for the next coach. Lethlean is just one of them.
They’ve already addressed your concerns.
 

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Peter Klaven

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Jul 2, 2019
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Feel for Harves in a way.

Comes back as assistant under Ross.

Appointed interim coach in 2011 for 3 weeks (which wasn’t even necessary) and then loses out to Scott Watters.

Goes elsewhere for obvious reasons and to gain further experience.

Dips his toe in the water again post Scott Watters but is over looked for Richo.

Comes back for an interview this time with Ratts paying $1.05 to get the gig.
In any industry you will find individuals in the same situation.
Someone may have all the skills and ability to perform a role but due to timing and circumstance never get that opportunity through no fault of their own.
Seems to be a case of right place, wrong time for Harves unfortunately.
 

pebblesofsand

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Oct 18, 2011
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So North appoints Shaw without interviewing anybody else, Carlton appoints Teague after interviewing only one other candidate - can't help thinking both clubs have mistaken the "dead cat bounce" for coaching ability.

Hope the Saints don't make the same mistake - its hard to know for certain that the "incumbent" is actually the best available if you don't closely look at other options.
 
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ScrappyDo

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In any industry you will find individuals in the same situation.
Someone may have all the skills and ability to perform a role but due to timing and circumstance never get that opportunity through no fault of their own.
Seems to be a case of right place, wrong time for Harves unfortunately.
Not so. No club has yet seen fit to give Harves the top gig. Granted he would have been better than Watters and Cho but clearly something's holding him back. Maybe he interviews poorly. Maybe he lacks presence.
 

BrutThough

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Or maybe we have our preferred candidate.

If Ratten wasn't available, I reckon Harvey would be in contention.
The fact Harvey hasn't been considered or talked about in the media as an option for any other club should be the biggest red flag that he is only being considering because he use to play for us rather than because he is viewed as a great candidate for senior job.
 

VDS66

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Oct 4, 2011
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So North appoints Shaw without interviewing anybody else, Carlton appoints Teague after interviewing only one other candidate - can't help thinking both clubs have mistaken the "dead cat bounce" for coaching ability.

Hope the Saints don't make the same mistake - its hard to know for certain that the "incumbent" is actually the best available if you don't closely look at other options.
He is.

We have.
 

VDS66

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The fact Harvey hasn't been considered or talked about in the media as an option for any other club should be the biggest red flag that he is only being considering because he use to play for us rather than because he is viewed as a great candidate for senior job.
If it was me, I'd be looking at coaching my own VFL team for Two years.
 

Peter Klaven

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Not so. No club has yet seen fit to give Harves the top gig. Granted he would have been better than Watters and Cho but clearly something's holding him back. Maybe he interviews poorly. Maybe he lacks presence.
Maybe so. But there's no denying his only realistic shot at the gig was when Richo got the job.
After Ross he was still too inexperienced and this time he will be coming up against Ratten who you would expect would be close to an unbackable favourite and only closing with each win.
All I'm saying is the timing hasn't been kind to Harves.
 

Saint Shags

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So North appoints Shaw without interviewing anybody else, Carlton appoints Teague after interviewing only one other candidate - can't help thinking both clubs have mistaken the "dead cat bounce" for coaching ability.

Hope the Saints don't make the same mistake - its hard to know for certain that the "incumbent" is actually the best available if you don't closely look at other options.
Teague is by no means a mistake.
If you look at his resume he is a very smart operator.
Dead coach bounce might be a couple of wins. 5 wins out of 8 would suggest a bit more.
 

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StCicatriz

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Aug 3, 2016
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What's the go with Carracella and Longmuire?

Are they not interested in a head coach role as yet because I haven't heard any news of either interviewing for a job.
I think assistants are going to try and do a Shaw and Teague now. Where they go to the club where the senior coach is under pressure.

The club then feels safer getting exposure to what they will appoint.

So worsfold may end up sacked and caracella takes over.

Worsfold could end up at freo. Although unlikely.
 

pebblesofsand

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Teague is by no means a mistake.
If you look at his resume he is a very smart operator.
Dead coach bounce might be a couple of wins. 5 wins out of 8 would suggest a bit more.
It may also suggest that Bolton was the real problem - and with Carlton's list that's an easy point to argue.

I reckon Carlton could have appointed their boot studder as interim coach and got a significant improvement.
 

Peter Klaven

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I think assistants are going to try and do a Shaw and Teague now. Where they go to the club where the senior coach is under pressure.

The club then feels safer getting exposure to what they will appoint.

So worsfold may end up sacked and caracella takes over.

Worsfold could end up at freo. Although unlikely.
This wouldn't surprise me if all three caretakers get the jobs this year what with the pile on philosophy of the club's.
It would have to create tensions in your football department though when you suddenly bring an aspiring senior coach in to work with an under pressure head coach.
Where is the line between contingency planning and setting your coach up to fail?
 

tomsimpkin31

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I’ve found the media narrative strange from the outset that Teague is the rookie and Shaw the more prepared and seamless appointment. Teague has had his own side at a young age. Has been an assistant at four clubs. Has been in the coaching business for 13 years. Added to that, he took a team that had won four games in about two years and did it in 6 weeks. Sure, their list had potential but it wasn’t getting done and he has made it work.

Shaw conversely took over a team that had admittedly had a poor start to the year but won 12 games last year. It was pretty clear they had gotten stale under Scott but the list just needed a refresh.

Not trying to go hard on Shaw who could do a good job, who knows, but Teague is far more qualified than him in my opinion. The media’s version over the last few months would have you thinking the opposite.
 
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triggering bro

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On SEN this morning it was mentioned that Teague & Bolton had a lot of philosophical disagreements with regard to coaching. The same could be said for Richo & Kingsley.

Kingsley is & has been regarded as one of the best operators going around & has already been touted as the 2IC at Richmond this year given his performance in his role.

Maybe Bolts & Richo both lacked the flexibly to change their position & listen to their assistants advice?

We talk about coaches having strong ability to communicate with their players however its often forgotten the importance of working with their assistants. Last year I recall footage of Richo & Kingsley appearing to be arguing in the box. Nothing wrong with robust discussion but the body language was extremely poor from the both of them IMO.

The knock on RTB has generally been that his relationships with his staff have often been poor due to his outrageous expectations amongst other things.

I would hope relationships/communication with assistants/staff is something the club has placed as an important consideration when choosing the coach.

From the outside Ratts appears to be extremely personable with his assistants however we haven’t seen him under a great deal of pressure yet.
 

CaptainRisky

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Oct 16, 2016
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So North appoints Shaw without interviewing anybody else, Carlton appoints Teague after interviewing only one other candidate - can't help thinking both clubs have mistaken the "dead cat bounce" for coaching ability.

Hope the Saints don't make the same mistake - its hard to know for certain that the "incumbent" is actually the best available if you don't closely look at other options.
I think the hard part is you can interview people as long as you like , do reference checks ect and you still cant be sure until the person starts working- coaching , God the nufties iv had here , interview like a priest and turn into the devil in 3 days
 

CaptainRisky

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On SEN this morning it was mentioned that Teague & Bolton had a lot of philosophical disagreements with regard to coaching. The same could be said for Richo & Kingsley.

Kingsley is & has been regarded as one of the best operators going around & has already been touted as the 2IC at Richmond this year given his performance in his role.

Maybe Bolts & Richo both lacked the flexibly to change their position & listen to their assistants advice?

We talk about coaches having strong ability to communicate with their players however its often forgotten the importance of working with their assistants. Last year I recall footage of Richo & Kingsley appearing to be arguing in the box. Nothing wrong with robust discussion but the body language was extremely poor from the both of them IMO.

The knock on RTB has generally been that his relationships with his staff have often been poor due to his outrageous expectations amongst other things.

I would hope relationships/communication with assistants/staff is something the club has placed as an important consideration when choosing the coach.

From the outside Ratts appears to be extremely personable with his assistants however we haven’t seen him under a great deal of pressure yet.
True , he is under no real pressure ATM as he is just an interim coach with nothing to loose
 

BrutThough

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Slightly off topic but still coaching related, there was an article yesterday saying that North Melbourne are trying to get Henry Playfair across to them despite him being contacted for one more year.

After hearing the interview he did with AFL Trends last week, I would be surprised if he moved if Ratten is appointed. He described Ratten as the best/smartest football brain and one of the best communicators he has come across in football. Since he is currently doing the lvl4 coaches course and wants to eventually become a senior coach, I would guess the appeal of learning from someone as experienced as Ratten would be more appealing than heading to North and working under someone he use to coach and someone who is much less experienced and credentialed as him.

So it's a watch this space on our assistants for next year.
 

triggering bro

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I think the hard part is you can interview people as long as you like , do reference checks ect and you still cant be sure until the person starts working- coaching , God the nufties iv had here , interview like a priest and turn into the devil in 3 days
I guess you could say he has pressure to perform which may affect his chance at the appointment but certainly less stress than what is/may come. Paul Roos has said the first 8-10 weeks as head/interim coach is the easiest time.
 

Impatient Saint

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I can understand the club going through the motions interviewing people interested in the job. I feel sorry for Banger.

Surely the club administrators can see they have the right bloke sitting in the position already? His players love him, the assistants love him and the supporters have forgotten Richo already. Its not like we have Clarkson, Simpson or Hardwick lined up to interview for the job.

Just make the decision quickly Saints and allow Gubby & Lethlean do their thing on the back of Rattens reputation.
 
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