Preview Who will finish higher in 2019 - Richmond, West Coast, Collingwood or Melbourne?

Who will finish higher?

  • Richmond

    Votes: 193 45.7%
  • West Coast

    Votes: 111 26.3%
  • Collingwood

    Votes: 63 14.9%
  • Melbourne

    Votes: 55 13.0%

  • Total voters
    422

Hannabal

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I guess it's hard being the biggest conceding team in the top eight, but that does come down to your age demographic a lot.
We improved our defence by 192 points from 2017 to 2018 across the 22 rounds.

We were less than 100 points behind the 4th best defence in 2018 (about 4 points per game) and less that 200 points behind the best defence.

We'll have a better defence again in 2019.
 

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4tone

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Interesting that after we just won the flag we backed up by being clear 2 games at the end of the home n away season, I’d say that would indicate the desire is still there.
Not hugely talented but still rated the best defence, best fwd line and 2nd best midfield behind your mob, that would indicate its fairly talented I’d imagine?
By whom rated? I couldn't care less if some fluff piece trying hype up your club by ratings, its all crap, who saw the dogs, you guys and the eagles last year coming. There's something a miss with the tigers just feel it, you cant see for obvious reasons, this is why external professionals are employed by all clubs to oversee things that the furniture cant. I'm probably wrong and winding you guys up a bit, we'll all see soon enough.
 

dean33

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By whom rated? I couldn't care less if some fluff piece trying hype up your club by ratings, its all crap, who saw the dogs, you guys and the eagles last year coming. There's something a miss with the tigers just feel it, you cant see for obvious reasons, this is why external professionals are employed by all clubs to oversee things that the furniture cant. I'm probably wrong and winding you guys up a bit, we'll all see soon enough.
Just a vibe hey? Rated by the afl website or you can look at the fact we had the highest percentage, 2nd lowest pts conceded and 2nd most points scored and then went out and recruited a bloke by the name of Tom lynch, you know the bloke the pies were doing everything they could to recruit as well. Only last once at the g in the last 25 games so that should hold us in good stead. I’m sure you are just looking for a bite so I don’t really care what you think, the proof will be in the pudding like it always is.
 

4tone

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Just a vibe hey? Rated by the afl website or you can look at the fact we had the highest percentage, 2nd lowest pts conceded and 2nd most points scored and then went out and recruited a bloke by the name of Tom lynch, you know the bloke the pies were doing everything they could to recruit as well. Only last once at the g in the last 25 games so that should hold us in good stead. I’m sure you are just looking for a bite so I don’t really care what you think, the proof will be in the pudding like it always is.
All great points you make. I remember not that long ago the Pies were the best, premiers followed up with almost perfect season the year after. 12 months later a rebuild of sorts was underway. 2017 and 2018 heroics count for zero today. Again your right, proof is in the pudding and we will all know soon.
 

Zoom

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All great points you make. I remember not that long ago the Pies were the best, premiers followed up with almost perfect season the year after. 12 months later a rebuild of sorts was underway. 2017 and 2018 heroics count for zero today. Again your right, proof is in the pudding and we will all know soon.
That’s some nice reaching.
 

Carringbush2010

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All clubs can count just as many things that could allow for improvement. I’m not sure just stating that players who finished in your midfield (and you midfield finished well) are going to magically just be that much better. Even my club have 10-12 young players in the best 22 that are a year more experienced and have heaps of opportunity to just be that much better after another preseason. Every club has players that’ll improve them (hopefully) or Atleast fans can find reasons to be optimistic. Melbourne’s midfield on the inside was elite in 2018. I see it still being very good. I just think the game will move to being much quicker and sides will need to adapt. Imo I think Melbourne could be in the GF in 2019 but I can also see them having difficulty with the new rules being a very contested team in 2018 and they’ll need to adapt to kicking a bit more plus they won’t bd able to use the 2 off the back of the square tactic any more unless the ball gets a secondary ball up which you can’t rely on and plan for. There talls (particularly defensively) have heaps of room for improvement. I’m not a fan of Oscar (particular 1 on 1 which will occur more in 666) but adding May will be huge. Weideman could help the loss of hogan (but he’s young and hogan will relish in the 666). Having Gawn grab the ball out of the ruck rather than tap takes away his greatest strength. He has a great leap and huge tank but if he starts grabbing it I think
It takes away his elite strength of getting it to your contested mids. Btw both ruckman can grab the footy. I expect this to be a tactic teams use against Gawn because they won’t want him using his tap skills. Someone like Mumford whose bigger and stronger than Gawn will just grab it, get his hands free and dispose of it delayed. There are others stronger than Gawn and taller (Witts, Cox, Sandilands, etc). You’ve also got to take into account the west coast plan of tagging Gawn. Teams will just play two ruckman against Melb and try this also. The other option you have of pruess with Gawn only makes your side even slower.
Re Gawn, I think you're missing something and there was a thread earlier on the "tagging" of Gawn and Grundy.

To do what you're stating would correlate Gawn basically admitting defeat in ruck battles before the ball is bounced and by extension you're over exaggerating the 666 rule as detrimental to pressure game plans like Melbournes.

Regardless of taller and stronger rucks (don't know how you count Cox as stronger either), Gawn has proven he consistently wins taps to his mids, the 666 rule will have almost zero impact on that.

I don't see how you're suggesting Gawn will take possession out of the ruck instead of feeding taps to his mids.

The only way you can tag someone like Gawn is have two quality rucks in your 18 man on field structure i:e Vardy and Lycett. No other teams have this luxury certainly not Cox and Grundy and that's arguable to WC success in the big dance too, were able to nullify Grundy's influence.

What Melbourne have now is Pruess and even unlikely they'll use him in the starting 18 with Gawn he does compliment Melbournes pressure style.
 

Carringbush2010

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1st year draftees are development players unless they are mature agers like Ryan and Rioli orJudd. Asking a lot of 18 yr olds.

Weller is a good depth pickup and Lynch is obviously A grade best 22.

Tigers have similar depth as Eagles. Maybe a bit light in the ruck. Pies bat deep.
Nup, eagles have more depth. Not suggesting the tiges don't but it doesn't match your mob.

I'd argue the eagles bat deeper than the pies too, not blowin smoke up asses here but out of the 4 teams in this thread I'd argue the Pies have the least talent.

Certainly not the midfield no, but what we do possess is our game style is not so personnel reliant and we have exceptional blue collar types like Langdon and Maynard off the top of my head. That's the pies strength - system not personnel (richmond similar).

To suggest the tiges have depth like the eagles is a bit of a stretch mate, they do have depth but arguably not as much as the other 3.
 
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Of course, it's Bigfooty and youth is more important than results.

Just a couple of quick points:
I notice you didn't mention Lewis and Jones for Melbourne, who are both considerably older than Collingwood's older mids (Pendles, Sidey, Beams).

You've mentioned the upside likely coming from your youth or inexperienced players, how about this for upside:
Grundy, DeGoey, Phillips, Treloar, Sier, Maynard, Scharenberg, Adams, Stephenson, Daicos, Mihocek, Moore, Cox.

Collingwood aren't Richmond, who have an unhealthy reliance of a core group of players in their late 20's. We have a list of 37 players (referenced earlier in this thread) who will be vying for best 22, with half of these players having played less than 30 games of AFL football, balanced by the mature bodies on our list.

Great recipe for sustained success, like we had between 2007 and 2013.
Say what?
I’d rather take our age demographic over yours
lol deluded much??
 

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Carringbush2010

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Pies will finish The H&A first with games and loads of percentage on the next Club. The best list in the comp.
Really? The best list in the comp! oh contraire! We have the best system in the comp - not the best list mate.

Just a heads up this is not the same list of 2011 that handed out 10 goal + beltings week in week out.

Maybe have a look at the 4 lists and rethink your post bruh.
 

Obeanie1

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Nup, eagles have more depth. Not suggesting the tiges don't but it doesn't match your mob.

I'd argue the eagles bat deeper than the pies too, not blowin smoke up asses here but out of the 4 teams in this thread I'd argue the Pies have the least talent.

Certainly not the midfield no, but what we do possess is our game style is not so personnel reliant and we have exceptional blue collar types like Langdon and Maynard off the top of my head. That's the pies strength - system not personnel (richmond similar).

To suggest the tiges have depth like the eagles is a bit of a stretch mate, they do have depth but arguably not as much as the other 3.
It would be interestig to make a three column list of each of Tigers, Eagles and Pies with like for like positions. Tigers and Eagles would pip the Pies in some kp forward and back positions but the Pies would bat deeper in quality in mids and flankers IMO.

Rucks Grundy + Cox v Nankervis+ Soldo v Naitanui,, Vardy/Hickey - Even

Etc etc
 
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It would be interestig to make a three column list of each of Tigers, Eagles and Pies with like for like positions. Tigers and Eagles would pip the Pies in some kp forward and back positions but the Pies would bat deeper in quality in mids and flankers IMO.

Rucks Grundy + Cox v Nankervis+ Soldo v Naitanui,, Vardy/Hickey - Even

Etc etc
Fair call, what you're forgetting is that the 4 lists correlate to the systems. For example WC are surgically precise and are a transition team, they have a list that is suited to that system. What they also have (and is clearly under reported!) is there own mid field pressure to break down the pressure games of the other three. The luxury of being able to use two quality rucks in the starting 18 to nullify giants in Gawn and Grundy.

Richmond are full pressure and force the ball forward and have a list suited to that system. Melbourne similar and that's why those teams are so hard to defeat.

Collingwood is a hybrid, they swarm and spread to either win possession and then transition with either ball or leg speed or create turnover through pressure and then use ball or leg speed to transition the footy. They have a list suited to that system.

What does all that mean? Well despite WC injuries to uber key players and still winning the flag their game style is personnel reliant, more so than the other three.

Collingwoods is much less so given the versatility of the list they have, certainly not as talented as the other three but their system is probably the most dangerous - especially if they have a better injury run which is likely.
 
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Thread starter #1,292
Nup, eagles have more depth. Not suggesting the tiges don't but it doesn't match your mob.

I'd argue the eagles bat deeper than the pies too, not blowin smoke up asses here but out of the 4 teams in this thread I'd argue the Pies have the least talent.
At the start of 2018 we were almost in unanimous agreement on the Eagles board that our depth was quite shallow. Redden, Cripps, Sheed were seen as average, Hurn seemed to have plateaued, Darling peaked etc etc. Now we have first rounders and mature age depth biding their time in the reserves as 20 of the premiership 22 continue into 2019 with only two over 30 years old.

If the right players come on and/or have career best seasons, suddenly it looks good. If players like Maynard, Sier, Moore etc step up a notch while someone like Reid has a blinder from nowhere, everyone will be praising the Pies' list.
 

Carringbush2010

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At the start of 2018 we were almost in unanimous agreement on the Eagles board that our depth was quite shallow. Redden, Cripps, Sheed were seen as average, Hurn seemed to have plateaued, Darling peaked etc etc. Now we have first rounders and mature age depth biding their time in the reserves as 20 of the premiership 22 continue into 2019 with only two over 30 years old.

If the right players come on and/or have career best seasons, suddenly it looks good. If players like Maynard, Sier, Moore etc step up a notch while someone like Reid has a blinder from nowhere, everyone will be praising the Pies' list.
If you're trying to boost the profile of the pies list you're failing.

You could argue that of the 4 teams in this thread that the pies have the least amount of elite and A graders vs the other 3, undoubtedly WC have a better list and it's needed given the transition style of game WC have.

If you look pre 2018 no one outside Colllingwood would rate players like Sier or Maynard or Langdon etc. (lots of etc. btw - strength of the team) sure you could argue the likes of Sheed, Hutchings (great lockdown type btw) were "blue collar" types in the moulds of ours.

I challenge anyone that would view our list as A grade or elite abundant as WC, that would be a losing argument.

Put simply every AFL listed player IS very very, very good and then you have the minimal amount of B, A and elite talent. What wins it is your application of the list you have to apply a game plan.

And even though we don't have the list you have (or the other two) we have exceptional depth of so called "blue collars" to execute a very difficult to defeat game style.

That's why we are in the conversation, not personnel but application of the list we have to to a particular game style.
 
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Really? The best list in the comp! oh contraire! We have the best system in the comp - not the best list mate.

Just a heads up this is not the same list of 2011 that handed out 10 goal + beltings week in week out.

Maybe have a look at the 4 lists and rethink your post bruh.
Theres nothing wrong with screaming it out, the list as recently as this week even Bucks conceaded that a player or 2 would considered as cream on the top players. I didn't say it Brah, the coach of the club did. Its going to be a Davey Warner type of season, but if you prefer Ed Cowan, each to thier own. Enjoy.
 
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Really? The best list in the comp! oh contraire! We have the best system in the comp - not the best list mate.

Just a heads up this is not the same list of 2011 that handed out 10 goal + beltings week in week out.

Maybe have a look at the 4 lists and rethink your post bruh.
And just rereading your post, the current team is yet to make its mark, for pure talent 2019 has 2011 covered. 2009/2011 pies perfected the press and was very drilled by a great coach. I honestly belive the current list there has never been a more talented group of players assembled in Pies any era. Those 10 goal weekly hammerings might be disguised a bit more with 30 / 40 point wins such is the way of modern footy.
 

Ambrosia

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Melbourne's dominance in center clearances will be interesting with the new rules. They were plus 3.5 centre clearances per game with the next closest being Port Adelaide at plus 1.9.

Without half forwards coming off the back of the square midfielders may have more time and space to deliver the ball inside 50 when a centre clearances is won.
 

Ambrosia

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It’s not a dream run, it’s just the benefit of having a much better run club and fitness department. Pies will continue to have injuries and tigers will most likely continue to have most of their players available.
Only a moron would deny there isn't some luck involved with injuries. How does a clubs medical department prevent contact injuries or ACL tears?
 

harrythetiger

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Only a moron would deny there isn't some luck involved with injuries. How does a clubs medical department prevent contact injuries or ACL tears?
Of course, there’s an element of luck involved. But if we ensure every player is as close to 100% and try to prevent soft tissue injuries, we can minimise our troubles. We’ve actually picked up injuries over the course of the last two seasons - not as many as others no doubt, but our injury list has been at its shortest come finals. No prizes for guessing why. It’s also helpful that our top 4 players have been relatively durable over their careers - it’s possible they’ll have issues but its a long shot to predict that.
 

Obeanie1

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Melbourne's dominance in center clearances will be interesting with the new rules. They were plus 3.5 centre clearances per game with the next closest being Port Adelaide at plus 1.9.

Without half forwards coming off the back of the square midfielders may have more time and space to deliver the ball inside 50 when a centre clearances is won.
They had the 2nd weakest draw and an AA ruck.
 

Obeanie1

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Of course, there’s an element of luck involved. But if we ensure every player is as close to 100% and try to prevent soft tissue injuries, we can minimise our troubles. We’ve actually picked up injuries over the course of the last two seasons - not as many as others no doubt, but our injury list has been at its shortest come finals. No prizes for guessing why. It’s also helpful that our top 4 players have been relatively durable over their careers - it’s possible they’ll have issues but its a long shot to predict that.
So what is this magical formula that sets Richmond apart from other clubs in injuries and injury management ?
 
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