Preview Who will finish higher - Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, St Kilda or Hawthorn

[footyfan1978]

I think St Kilda have a decent list, but I don’t see any young St Kilda players of the quality of Petracca or Oliver, who both look like being top 10 players in the game. This is the key difference in the lists as I see it. St Kilda’s best young talent is probably Billings who, in my view, is also behind Lever and Hogan (albeit they are different types of players and hard to compare).

As for 2018, Melbourne look like we have more upside on last year given the number of injuries to key players in 2017 (Gawn, Hogan, Jones and Viney) and the addition of Lever. Watts could improve at Port, but he was no better than average over the whole of 2017.

St Kilda gained two early draftees and there will be a natural maturity in the group but they have lost Riewoldt and Montagna, who I feel are being undersold by Saints fans.

Great summary of where those two club lists are at in comparison to each other in the coming season.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Were any of those games in the year he was on drugs?

They were in 2014 so the only drugs he was on were recreational.

 

[Trav 20]

Meters gained was actually designed by CD for half backs.

Half backs were getting a ton of cheap possessions, and still do, it was a way of comparing who had the most positive impact.

I don't doubt you, just going off an article in the Australian a few years ago.

"Statisticians hunkered down in Champion Data headquarters listen to their colleagues’ live calls of a game and chart the distances on a “game map”.

"Champion Data says the raw numbers are great for identifying “outside” players so tags can be doled out accordingly."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...r/news-story/ed5d8f01b3db21e19d5fdf76986884cb

 

[Pykie]

I don't doubt you, just going off an article in the Australian a few years ago.

"Statisticians hunkered down in Champion Data headquarters listen to their colleagues’ live calls of a game and chart the distances on a “game map”.

"Champion Data says the raw numbers are great for identifying “outside” players so tags can be doled out accordingly."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...r/news-story/ed5d8f01b3db21e19d5fdf76986884cb

Yeah, remember when it was first developed, Glenn Luff who actually created the metric, brought it up on SEN at the time.

 

[footyfan1978]

Yeah, remember when it was first developed, Craig Luff who actually created the metric, brought it up on SEN at the time.

Who the F is Craig Luff ?
When I think of Champion Data I think of it's father Ted Hopkins or more recent on air presence, Glenn Luff

 

[Pykie]

Who the F is Craig Luff ?
When I think of Champion Data I think of it's father Ted Hopkins or more recent on air presence, Glenn Luff

Glenn, was in the car. ROFL.

 

[footyfan1978]

Where the * was Troy? In the boot ?

 

[BrutThough]

I think St Kilda have a decent list, but I don’t see any young St Kilda players of the quality of Petracca or Oliver, who both look like being top 10 players in the game. This is the key difference in the lists as I see it. St Kilda’s best young talent is probably Billings who, in my view, is also behind Lever and Hogan (albeit they are different types of players and hard to compare).

As for 2018, Melbourne look like we have more upside on last year given the number of injuries to key players in 2017 (Gawn, Hogan, Jones and Viney) and the addition of Lever. Watts could improve at Port, but he was no better than average over the whole of 2017.

St Kilda gained two early draftees and there will be a natural maturity in the group but they have lost Riewoldt and Montagna, who I feel are being undersold by Saints fans.

1. You can't compare Billings to a key position player
2. Billings is a far better player than Petrecca
3. Anyone who watched StKilda play throughout the season can see how little influence Riewoldt and Joey had on us in 2017, and how little we will miss them moving forward.

Very true about Melbourne though - having Gawn fit or the whole year, and Viney, will make them a much harder proposition in 2018 and help with their consistency week to week. Though, I reckon they tend to perform better without Hogan in the team and that he isn't as vital to their success moving forward.

 

[StCicatriz]

I'm a big fan of Oliver. Melbourne have a genuine star.

That takes nothing away from Seb Ross who is a very promising inside mid who can play outside as well.

 

[LeverPuller]

If 'Oliver is superior to Ross,' then why did Ross make the AA squad while Oliver didn't? Ross won the St Kilda best and fairest as well but oh well was in a worse side with only 1 less win (really mustn't have been hard then hey?). You talk about how Oliver was one of the best contested players/clearance players in the competition, which he has going off the stats sheet but also when you look at the stats sheet it demonstrates an extremely poor kick-to-handball ratio (less than 1 kick for every 3 handpasses). While Oliver had 2 more disposals in 2017 than Ross (WOW), Oliver had 141 less kicks, showing how little damage he does on the outside. IMO Ross is a more rounded player but I honestly haven't seen enough Melbourne games to judge this with absolute certainly (as you obviously haven't seen enough St Kilda games). Ross and Oliver are vastly different players and I am just demonstrating the other side of the coin.

On the AA Squad, there was a fair bit of general shock that Oliver didn't make the 40 while Treloar and Scully did. I think the AA selectors stuffed it up.

As for your final comment, I highly doubt that 2 defenders and the handball king were the difference in Melbourne being 'a better team than St Kilda in 2017' and if you genuinely believe this then I truly worry for you.

Well one of those three didn't play for Melbourne in 2016 and another only played a dozen games. They certainly were a difference between our 2016 and 17 sides.

But personally, I think Oliver is the best young mid in the comp bar none, and will likely be in discussions for top ten mids in the game come end of 2018.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I'm a big fan of Oliver. Melbourne have a genuine star.

That takes nothing away from Seb Ross who is a very promising inside mid who can play outside as well.

Did Ross win the B&F?

 

[joop]

Did Ross win the B&F?

Yeh, ahead of Roberton and Geary or Billings I’m pretty sure. Someone will correct me if that’s wrong but Seb definitely won it.

 

[footyfan1978]

Did Ross win the B&F?

1982 Ross Glendinning
1983 Ross Glendinning+ (2)

 

[StCicatriz]

Did Ross win the B&F?

yeah mate

 

[Richo83]

Ross is the answer to the question: "which player do fans on bigfooty inexorably rate way above their station?" He's a nice tidy accumulator but he lacks damage in his kicking. No team is scared of a team where he's the best player in the team.

 

[Harvey to Hayes]

Ross is the answer to the question: "which player do fans on bigfooty inexorably rate way above their station?" He's a nice tidy accumulator but he lacks damage in his kicking. No team is scared of a team where he's the best player in the team.

Round 16, 2017:

STK 21 .12.138 v RICH 10 .11.71

Brownlow votes:
Sebastian Ross 3
Tim Membrey *2
Leigh Montagna1

 

[Vindicater]

Round 16, 2017:

STK 21 .12.138 v RICH 10 .11.71

Brownlow votes:
Sebastian Ross 3
Tim Membrey *2
Leigh Montagna1

******* great post.

 

[Richo83]

1. You can't compare Billings to a key position player
2. Billings is a far better player than Petrecca
3. Anyone who watched StKilda play throughout the season can see how little influence Riewoldt and Joey had on us in 2017, and how little we will miss them moving forward.

Very true about Melbourne though - having Gawn fit or the whole year, and Viney, will make them a much harder proposition in 2018 and help with their consistency week to week. Though, I reckon they tend to perform better without Hogan in the team and that he isn't as vital to their success moving forward.

In what world is Billings far better than Petracca? They're both roughly the same age, both project to be stars, but have mostly tantalized as of yet.

 

[markm106]

This seems to have turned into an Oliver v Ross thread. Ross is a very good player. I rate him. But what Oliver did in his second year was outrageous. Really impacted games. He has plenty of improvement to come don’t doubt that. Once he builds up his tank and time on ground and had stints up forward he’ll move up another few notches. Also look for him to carry the footy and kick more this year.

 

[JVseven]

Only Saints supporters would take Ross over Oliver.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Round 16, 2017:

STK 21 .12.138 v RICH 10 .11.71

Brownlow votes:
Sebastian Ross 3
Tim Membrey *2
Leigh Montagna1

Round 23, 2017

Richmond 122 def St Kilda 81

Brownlow Votes

3. Dustin Martin (RIC)

2. Shaun Grigg (RIC)

1. Trent Cotchin (RIC)

 

[JVseven]

Round 16, 2017:

STK 21 .12.138 v RICH 10 .11.71

Brownlow votes:
Sebastian Ross 3
Tim Membrey *2
Leigh Montagna1

Clearly that game was an anomaly, Membrey got two votes.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Clearly that game was an anomaly, Membrey got two votes.

Also got suspended in that game for a thug act on Grimes

 

[Sprout]

Only Saints supporters would take Ross over Oliver.

Makes perfect sense to me that the 2nd ranked contested player in the league is well behind a player who couldn’t crack the top 50.

Did you also know Jack Billings is a far superior player to Petracca?

I’m learning so much.

 

[The Gov]

Makes perfect sense to me that the 2nd ranked contested player in the league is well behind a player who couldn’t crack the top 50.

Did you also know Jack Billings is a far superior player to Petracca?

I’m learning so much.

That depends, I'd take Ross and Billings over Oliver and Petracca if I needed them right now to win a game for me, but if I was drafting for potential/long term would take the Melbourne players