Preview Who will finish higher - Western Bulldogs, Fremantle, Brisbane or St Kilda

Who finishes higher in 2019?


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Virgin Dog

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Champion data break the categories right down, someone listed as a general-medium-forward that actually plays midfield will be rated elite for clearances.

Lobb - contested mark
Sandilands - hitouts
Fyfe - clearances, contested marks
Wilson - metres gained from defense
Ryan - metres gained from defense, scoring chain involvements
Bradley Hill - repeat sprint efforts

Just a few off the top of my head
In that case, that's a very different method of rating players than what Champion Data uses, so you can't really compare. They don't drill it down to individual stats, so guys like Brad Hill, Lobb, Ryan and Sandi wouldn't be rated elite all around in their position. Not Wilson either but I think that could change with another season. Fyfe I'm pretty sure is already considered elite
 

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Tayl0r

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Champion bloody Data , seriously what the hell did we ever do to those guys

18th best fwds

16th best mids

17th best backs

17th overall

I know we have been crap but jeez it seems like we'll be doing well to win a game


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There was a period of time when Luke McPharlin was simultaneously not considered in the top two hundred players at champion data and the first defender listed by playing key forwards for least preferred matchup.
 

Tayl0r

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In that case, that's a very different method of rating players than what Champion Data uses, so you can't really compare. They don't drill it down to individual stats, so guys like Brad Hill, Lobb, Ryan and Sandi wouldn't be rated elite all around in their position. Not Wilson either but I think that could change with another season. Fyfe I'm pretty sure is already considered elite
No doubt we rate differently.

That isn't just champion data though. There was a period where Sandi was dominating clearances, score chain involvements and hitouts but other rucks were being talked up as the best... Then then play Sandi and had their pants pulled down.

The stats based ratings are always going to be comprised by an uneven fixture, especially for key player match up positions like ruck, key forward, key back etc. Their performance is heavily dependent on their opponent where as outside runners/half backs are less influenced by their direct match up, taggers excluding of course.
 

The Joker

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Daniel Rich has been heavily tagged his entire career (in the mid field) Left unattended that left boot is deadly.
That's a major stretch, just because someone stood next to him at a stoppage doesnt mean he is being tagged. 'Heavily tagged his entire career', sheesh...

Deadly around the defensive goal line vs deadly inside 50, 1 goal 4 behinds isnt anything to write home about...
 
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Daniel Rich has been heavily tagged his entire career (in the mid field) Left unattended that left boot is deadly.
Sorry mate Fyfe’s been tagged heavily all his career and he is still rated elite. Elite players handle a taggers attention week in week out. What you are saying in relation to Rich is just a pure cop out.
Rich isn’t elite.
 

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Suitcase

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Daniel Rich is so ridiculously overrated, average player who escapes criticism. Done f**k all for a long time now.
He definitely does not escape criticism. He cops a lot of criticim from Lions fans and definitely isn't rated as highly internally as he once was. A handy foot soldier but nothing more. Certainly not an elite player as champion data suggests, I don't think anyone actually thinks that.
 

WilloTree

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Yeah, it lacks grunt.

Hill doesn't provide "grunt". He provides outside class.

Pick 2 ? Brayshaw ? He's a kid.

Mundy is no longer an inside mid.

Fyfe, the poor bastard, needs support.

There's a reason you were 16th for contested possessions and there's a reason you were 14th for clearances. You lack midfield grunt.

And this was when you had Neale.

Your response shows me you're delusional.
I'm not sure contested possessions is the best statistic to measure 'grunt' (whatever that is?).
Richmond didn't have a single player inside the top 20 for contested possessions - Gold Coast had 3 in the top 30.

Carlton averaged more clearances than all of Fremantle, kangaroos, Richmond and St Kilda. Brisbane and Gold Coast were 5th and 6th ranked for clearances.

Injuries to Sandilands, Darcy, Hill, Hill, Fyfe, Blakely and Brayshaw may have had something to do with those statistics as well.
 

Trav 20

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I'm not sure contested possessions is the best statistic to measure 'grunt' (whatever that is?).
Richmond didn't have a single player inside the top 20 for contested possessions - Gold Coast had 3 in the top 30.

Carlton averaged more clearances than all of Fremantle, kangaroos, Richmond and St Kilda. Brisbane and Gold Coast were 5th and 6th ranked for clearances.

Injuries to Sandilands, Darcy, Hill, Hill, Fyfe, Blakely and Brayshaw may have had something to do with those statistics as well.
Big bodied midfielders at the contest and having players across the entire ground who have a high contested possession ratio to overall disposals and high pressure acts.

Cherry picking here and there won't tell the whole story.
 

WilloTree

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No doubt we rate differently.

That isn't just champion data though. There was a period where Sandi was dominating clearances, score chain involvements and hitouts but other rucks were being talked up as the best... Then then play Sandi and had their pants pulled down.

The stats based ratings are always going to be comprised by an uneven fixture, especially for key player match up positions like ruck, key forward, key back etc. Their performance is heavily dependent on their opponent where as outside runners/half backs are less influenced by their direct match up, taggers excluding of course.
Here's a few interesting ones, just from 2018
Michael Walters is 7th in the league for Frees For and Gaol Assists
Sean Darcy, Nat Fyfe and Mike Apeness were 5th, 6th and 7th for Frees Against
Nat Fyfe was No 1 for 'Clangers'
Joel Hamling was 8th for One Percenters
Michael Wilson was 3rd for meters gained (BHill was 10th)
 

Lord Rod

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Here's a few interesting ones, just from 2018
Michael Walters is 7th in the league for Frees For and Gaol Assists
Sean Darcy, Nat Fyfe and Mike Apeness were 5th, 6th and 7th for Frees Against
Nat Fyfe was No 1 for 'Clangers'
Joel Hamling was 8th for One Percenters
Michael Wilson was 3rd for meters gained (BHill was 10th)
Gaol assists ?
Sounds more like Ben Cousins territory..
 

The Joker

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Big bodied midfielders at the contest and having players across the entire ground who have a high contested possession ratio to overall disposals and high pressure acts.

Cherry picking here and there won't tell the whole story.
So why walk in like a 70s pimp throwing stats around like they matter?
 
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