Who will have a breakout year in 2017?

[GotTheGoodes]

This is an excuse for Sam Reid. The poor guy has no stability.

The reason he has no stability is because there is someone else better than him in every position. We know he can play but HE isn't commanding a position. if he was he would have stability.

He must be doing something right to keep getting games over those other players who you say are better than him though right?

The thing with Reid is that I reckon he's a hard worker, a team player and not focused on picking up stats. The coaches love him and keep picking him for a reason. I think there's more to the story than what his stats may provide.

In terms of the stability argument - I.e. Is the lack of stability thus far because of him or has it been thrown upon him?

I'm firmly in the camp of it's been thrown upon him.

We needed him to carry our fwd line as a young fresh faced junior. Yes we had guys like Goodes, Morton, Pyke/Mummy, Jessie etc but no real key solid superstar key fwd like a Buddy or Tippo (when he arrived anyway). He was the man and being groomed as our future #1 key fwd.

Throw in an injury or two + the arrival of Tippett & Buddy + the need to push Goodes fwd (as he couldn't hold it up all game as that utility in the middle) = Suddenly he's been forced out of the position he had been developed for and thrown into a part time Swingman/RUC relief role.

To expect him to dominate and perform sharing the fwd line with the ball only ever going Goodes, Tippett or Buddy's way is a waste of his developmental years IMO. The coaches look to have thought the same and decided to give him some runs through CHB and in the Ruck to help him gain some development in other aspects of the game. If he succeeded in developing in those roles then we'd have a very dangerous utility who could replace that Goodes type role in the future. He wasn't amazing but also wasn't horrible in absorbing these shifts in focus all the while trying to continue to develop.

The change in positions would have also required him to shift his training focus and the way he built his body, his cardio work etc. The strain on the body would have shifted dramatically and resultantly I think that's where some of his injuries have stemmed from. I understand the injury argument is often downplayed, and I agree somewhat (he's had a few seemingly good runs in the side) but I believe he's often not given enough credit for playing through injury better than most in some of those runs in the side he's had.

Saying all of this though, you'd expect him to perform this year. He's going to have a pre-season. He looks in good physical shape. He's had a year to get himself ready and right to go. I expect him to be rusty early on & for everyone to bag him out. I just hope he's given a good run this year and becomes an important component by the 2nd half of the season.

I think he'll lift and have a great year this year and prove a few people wrong personally.

 

[tenderwarrior]

I notice that my post has been deleted from this thread.. So O'Riordan not expected to have a break out year? Or is this thread for Sydney supporters only?

 

[scaryness]

I notice that my post has been deleted from this thread.. So O'Riordan not expected to have a break out year? Or is this thread for Sydney supporters only?

I would say there is a pretty high chance of a link between supporters of other clubs asking about our players during pre-season, and fantasy competitions. Especially right now when all the fantasy competitions are beginning to open. So we are generally moving posts asking about our players to the fantasy thread as it is all relative anyway.

 

[swansfan51]

I notice that my post has been deleted from this thread.. So O'Riordan not expected to have a break out year? Or is this thread for Sydney supporters only?

It wasn't deleted, it was moved to the fantasy thread

 

[tenderwarrior]

It wasn't deleted, it was moved to the fantasy thread

Okay.

 

[Kirkswan]

You mention the depth in defence which kind of helps the arguement the other way in so far as we have so much great depth in the backline at the moment we might be able to start rotating a combination of Rampe/Jones/Mills through the middle during games. Shake things up. Become unpredictable. If it doesn't work we can revert instantaneously.

I don't think it needs to be a permanant move or anything. But playing Rampe/Jones/Mills as more flexible DEF/MIDs will really help alleviate some of the pressure our mids have to handle throughout games.

Flexibility is key going fwd. Players who can play multiple positions are becoming the norm. We need to be ahead of the curve (as I believe we tend to be).

I agree that Flexibility is the key going fwd. When are we moving Buddy?

Moving Rampe without having someone tried and trusted to take his place is not only unnecessary but crazy imo. And at the moment, again imo, we don't have anyone. Experiment with Jones and Mills by all means, our depth is good but it is also very young.

 

[Vin Rogue]

I agree that Flexibility is the key going fwd. When are we moving Buddy?

Moving Rampe without having someone tried and trusted to take his place is not only unnecessary but crazy imo. And at the moment, again imo, we don't have anyone. Experiment with Jones and Mills by all means, our depth is good but it is also very young.

Only crazy if you shift Ramps into the midfield on a one way ticket. Just need to be open to the idea. Some teams seem to be able to collar our midfield. Ramps could have very high impact for a short duration...but we shall never know if we don't try it out. Can't see why Mills, Jones and Ramps can't all have some midfield time. Let them learn the plays and structures. It will make us a much more dangerous team to match up and will enable us to play out quarters strongly if we share the gut busting two way running between a greater number of players.

 

[Grongey]

He must be doing something right to keep getting games over those other players who you say are better than him though right?

The thing with Reid is that I reckon he's a hard worker, a team player and not focused on picking up stats. The coaches love him and keep picking him for a reason. I think there's more to the story than what his stats may provide.

In terms of the stability argument - I.e. Is the lack of stability thus far because of him or has it been thrown upon him?

I'm firmly in the camp of it's been thrown upon him.

We needed him to carry our fwd line as a young fresh faced junior. Yes we had guys like Goodes, Morton, Pyke/Mummy, Jessie etc but no real key solid superstar key fwd like a Buddy or Tippo (when he arrived anyway). He was the man and being groomed as our future #1 key fwd.

Throw in an injury or two + the arrival of Tippett & Buddy + the need to push Goodes fwd (as he couldn't hold it up all game as that utility in the middle) = Suddenly he's been forced out of the position he had been developed for and thrown into a part time Swingman/RUC relief role.

To expect him to dominate and perform sharing the fwd line with the ball only ever going Goodes, Tippett or Buddy's way is a waste of his developmental years IMO. The coaches look to have thought the same and decided to give him some runs through CHB and in the Ruck to help him gain some development in other aspects of the game. If he succeeded in developing in those roles then we'd have a very dangerous utility who could replace that Goodes type role in the future. He wasn't amazing but also wasn't horrible in absorbing these shifts in focus all the while trying to continue to develop.

The change in positions would have also required him to shift his training focus and the way he built his body, his cardio work etc. The strain on the body would have shifted dramatically and resultantly I think that's where some of his injuries have stemmed from. I understand the injury argument is often downplayed, and I agree somewhat (he's had a few seemingly good runs in the side) but I believe he's often not given enough credit for playing through injury better than most in some of those runs in the side he's had.

Saying all of this though, you'd expect him to perform this year. He's going to have a pre-season. He looks in good physical shape. He's had a year to get himself ready and right to go. I expect him to be rusty early on & for everyone to bag him out. I just hope he's given a good run this year and becomes an important component by the 2nd half of the season.

I think he'll lift and have a great year this year and prove a few people wrong personally.

Sam will make our backline look even better this year. He is a good first receiver in midfield as we transition out of defence. He covers the ground and presents to our rebounders, and he's so tall they can't outmark him. Link between defence and attack.

 

[miggs]

Sam will make our backline look even better this year. He is a good first receiver in midfield as we transition out of defence. He covers the ground and presents to our rebounders, and he's so tall they can't outmark him. Link between defence and attack.

One of the better responses in this thread. Im hopefull but pessimistic at the same time. Hope i can eat some humble pie come September

 

[GotTheGoodes]

I agree that Flexibility is the key going fwd. When are we moving Buddy?

Moving Rampe without having someone tried and trusted to take his place is not only unnecessary but crazy imo. And at the moment, again imo, we don't have anyone. Experiment with Jones and Mills by all means, our depth is good but it is also very young.

Bud already shifts between stay at home FF out of the goal square, running through CHF, he's been put on the wing & even run in the middle. He's a great example of how that flexibility is important & something we need to focus on.

I don't think it's crazy to try Rampe out in the middle. As Vin Rogue said in his outstanding post above, it's only crazy if you only have one option in mind. I just want us to be open to trying a few new things this year to make us more unpredictible as I think that predictability has slowly become a weakness of ours.

 

[sataris]

Longmire

Will finally have a plan B

 

[swansfan51]

Beatson. Will effectively use a first round pick on a non-FS/academy player

 

[bungee]

Longmire

Will finally have a plan B

Plan B. Throw Reid forward (like Worsfold used to do with Hunter). Seriously, we rarely have problems with our defence but sometimes our forward line becomes static and predictable. Reid has some speed, he has a good tank, a good pair of hands and can take a contested grab. If our problem is the opposition locking the ball inside their attack then move Reid onto a wing as a go-to guy. It's not that Reid's so good but he's good enough, he's flexible and can be used to upset the balance. A bit like a bishop in Chess

 

[Wolftone]

I'm in the leave Rampe where he is camp. He is a proven AA defender, please don't mess with this group that has worked so hard and done us proud unless we absolutely have too. Our defenders do a fine job and seem to be getting better and better each year, with good depth for cover. Now that he is a VC, his leadership along with Reg, will greatly assist the newbies (AA, Marsh, Mills, Jones, Newman, Talia etc) as they progress.

By all means let's keep upgrading our midfield, but not at the expense of our defence. I think our midfield as it is is sensational, with the core group being absolute battlers with a never give up attitude who work themselves into the ground. JPK (Oh Captain, My Captain), Parker (25), Hannebery (26), Jack (29), are as solid a core as you'll get, and with the likes of Heeney (20), Mills (19), Hewett (21), Lloyd (24) in support and whole host of others coming through, I just can't see the need to disrupt the defensive group by taking Rampe out to see if he might be just as good somewhere else!

Quite right and add Florent, Foote, Edwards, BJ, Harry and Robbo to the mix and I think we are very healthy. Maibaum would also be a ready made defender.

I am also excited about our potential in the forward line going forward. Shall we say the post Buddy or end of Buddy deal players like Pink (a kid that never gives up and won a premiership off his own boot literally with a 70 metre point), Hayward (who kicked 9 goals in the SANFL U18 Prelim and 4 in the GF & has a leap like Tony Modra), Dawson (who played Seniors for Sturt in the SANFL), Papley (capable of kicking 40+/season), Rose (who has so much talent but needs direction) & Cameron (who seems to be able to kick a few, 36 in the WAFL last season, as a forward/ruck very like David Hale was for Hawks).

 

[Wolftone]

The idea of moving Rampe is quite interesting. Obviously it's dependent on having someone else cover the 3rd tall, but we do have options like AJ and Marsh in the frame for that role. Just because a guy has excelled in one position doesn't mean we should never consider trialling him in a different role. Adam Goodes won his first Brownlow playing predominantly as a ruck...

Maibaum and Talia as well. But the advantage of having Rampe there is thecut off and drive he gives with those long raking passes.

 

[Wolftone]

This is an excuse for Sam Reid. The poor guy has no stability.

The reason he has no stability is because there is someone else better than him in every position. We know he can play but HE isn't commanding a position. if he was he would have stability.

How in hell can he command a position when he isn't left in a position? Buddy was automatically put at CHF. A position he rarely played at Hawks. He either played FP or FF, then later as a high HFF. The resting ruck played FF, Roughy CHF (or either of these two in reverse), Gunston FP (sometimes CHF) & Buddy HFF. Reid was shunted to the back line, HF, Ruck, FP, bench, you name it not his natural position, the position he played, and was naturally suited to, from junior days.

 

[Wolftone]

Beatson. Will effectively use a first round pick on a non-FS/academy player

I think we will draft James Bell next draft.

 

[sataris]

Beatson. Will effectively use a first round pick on a non-FS/academy player

Chances of florent being a dud?

 

[swansfan51]

Chances of florent being a dud?

Historically?

 

[sataris]

Historically?

ja

 

[swansfan51]

ja

Here is every single non-shenanigans Kinnear Beatson 1st round pick this millenium

Ashley McGrath
Jason Gram
Jared Brennan
Llane Spaanderman
Cameron Wood
Mitch Clark
James Sellar
Patrick Veszpremi
Lewis Johnston
Gary Rohan
Lewis Jetta
Jed Lamb
Dean Towers
Zak Jones

I won't say which ones are duds because I'll get accused of attacking players

 

[sataris]

Here is every single non-shenanigans Kinnear Beatson 1st round pick this millenium

Ashley McGrath
Jason Gram
Jared Brennan
Llane Spaanderman
Cameron Wood
Mitch Clark
James Sellar
Patrick Veszpremi
Lewis Johnston
Gary Rohan
Lewis Jetta
Jed Lamb
Dean Towers
Zak Jones

I won't say which ones are duds because I'll get accused of attacking players

Average games played: 86

Though that's heavily weighted by outliers like McGrath and Brennan

EDIT: Ninja edit including Spaanderman its

Average games played: 80

 

[swansfan51]

Average games played: 86

Though that's heavily weighted by outliers like McGrath and Brennan

If you take the first 3 out it looks disgusting, but then I would have been accused of cherry picking

 

[sataris]

If you take the first 3 out it looks disgusting, but then I would have been accused of cherry picking

if you do it Olympics style, and take out the "best" (McGrath) and the worst ("Spaanderman")

Average Games Played: 76

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Who will have a breakout year in 2017? Aliir Aliir. The kid's just going to get better and better, and he's already showing a Tadgh Kennelly-level of unpredictability that will continue to confound his opponents.