Who Will Win The 2021 Premiership

Who will win the Premiership


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I guess that is what spDrake is arguing, Geelong will trade for players to keep them competitive but still fall short when it comes to the final step of winning a flag. This may continue until they go down the path of drafting and developing a team of superstars like 2007. There is a reason why players like Higgins and Dahlhaus are free agents.

With the void left by Richmond, they have the best opportunity this year to go all the way however. The clubs around the mark don’t have huge finals experience apart from the Bulldogs. Geelong are very well balanced, and have few injuries, and a lot of experienced hardened players.

My concern, and I have said it all year, is the risk of injury to older players through fatigue injuries. Danger, Selwood, in a cut throat final pulling a hamstring could be a disaster. Mind you, every time the Bulldogs play them we end up with the injuries, going right back to 2016, when we lost Libba and McCrae, so that theory has holes. :oops::rolleyes::drunk:

But until there is proof that drafting is going to get you that superstar that makes the difference the jury is out and to be honest there probably never will be. Even the dogs in 2016, ok you can easily mount an argument about them dropping off after their 3 prelim losses and then rebuilding and winning. But it’s not like they won on the back of a superstar - it’s not like you take one of those players out and replace him with a current version of Higgins and suddenly they don’t win the flag etc
Especially when you consider that without Dangerfield in particular but to a lesser extent tuohy and Henderson in recent seasons, we probably don’t get as far as we have in the first place. It’s not just a question of saying ‘ok if you remove journeymen like Higgins and Stanley and replace them with quality younger players acquired through the draft we suddenly have an extra 1-2 flags. Because under that theory you then have to also postulate that we needed to have drafted players that would be as impactful as Danger and Tuohy, and more recently Cameron
 
Geelong are our biggest threat, and the only team that concerns me in finals.

Don't know which team Geelong supporters will see as their biggest threat but it will probably be Dogs Dees.

Melbourne have actually given us some headaches in recent years head to head even when we’ve won (the narrow win where Gawn missed for example, the KP game where Hawkins went berserk and tuohy kicked a goal after the siren) so they concern me on that score but on balance the dogs are a better team and worry me more
 
I'm not just using one game though, my view is mainly based on the last 10 years and their current age demographic. Today's game just reinforces the notion that the old guys are finding it tough to run out games.

It doesn't get any easier for the finals; those old, slow legs are going to have to push extra hard.

I don’t think we are playing brilliant footy but the old guys running out the game thing is a myth
 

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Ah of course. The Bulldogs didn't need several draft picks at all; trading for oldies would've produced the same result. There was no need to pick up Bontempelli with pick 3, they should've just traded it for Crameri and Essendon's pick 13 like Geelong mind Brendan McCartney wanted to!

While we're at it, what were those Geelong list managers thinking in 1999-2001? Didn't they know stockpiling youngsters isn't proven to work? Why were they crafting kids like Bartel, Kelly and Johnson when they could've been bringing in some old heads like Justin Murphy, Daniel Bandy and Damien Hardwick? After all, it worked so well for Freo trading those draft picks for McPharlin and Croad.

Where did I say trading for oldies was the way to go? I’m literally just analysing the logistics of what you did. Had you not bottomed out a bit after 08-10, what is to say you couldn’t have added to what was already a good roster and won something within the next few years?

its not like we were mid table and then just airdropped in 6 old blokes and suddenly got to ‘good but not good enough’ status. We were good, top four, finished a win out of the 8, added ONE free agent and were immediately back in the top four. In what universe wasn’t that a winning recruitment move? So we are back in the top 4 straight away. What club that is in the top 4, is going to decide of it’s own volition, to give that up and drop off? Remember too, the best player we’ve drafted aside from Stewart in that period, made an AA team and finished 3rd(?) in the Brownlow in his second year and then decided to leave.

the alternative to all of that, is to take a huge risk - one that hasn’t worked for Essendon, Melbourne, carlton, north, Fremantle to an extent, GWS and Gold Coast (they didn’t have a choice obviously starting from nothing). Why is that ‘the right way’ when it’s proven that it’s hugely probable that it won’t work?

I’m staggered that a club can cop so much criticism in a result driven sport simply for refusing to deliberately accept losing
 
Supporters of a club who have won 2 flags in a century and frankly just made up the numbers during their existence are giving out list management advice and putting down other clubs...I've truly seen it all.

Small man syndrome in full swing


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Lmao it's hilarious listening to the supporters of pitiful minnow clubs who have achieved nothing in 100 odd years telling us what to do.

Think about that from a business perspective for a second..

Entrepreneurs who haven't been able to get their house in order for over a century are telling Elon Musk what his long term business plan should be. Forgive us for not taking your opinions with much weight.

Sure, you may eventually be right. Could be next year, could be 5 years, could be 10 years. I'm not unreasonable here, I agknowledge that a large amount of you will eventually be proven right.

The point is this: A broken clock is right twice a day. If you keep saying the Cats will fall off a cliff, you'll eventually be right..

But if that's your only argument for what has already been a decade and counting, don't expect Geelong supporters to take your opinion seriously. Surely you're all mature enough to agknowledge this.



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Supporters of a club who have won 2 flags in a century and frankly just made up the numbers during their existence are giving out list management advice and putting down other clubs...I've truly seen it all.

Small man syndrome in full swing


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You truly come across as a complete ass
 
I’m staggered that a club can cop so much criticism in a result driven sport simply for refusing to deliberately accept losing

You know why, right? So many get so caught up in football needing to be 'fair' that they quickly forget that it's a business and people don't want to accept that.

They don't want to accept that the reason their team has been rubbish for so long is directly linked to incompetence within their Front Office. Recruiting the right players, plugging holes in your list, making the club an attractive proposition, handling your salary cap etc.

When a club like Geelong is successful for an unforeseen period of time people don't like that, especially people who are supporters of clubs who have had long periods of drought, as it makes them look at their own club and think "Gee, what the f**k are we doing wrong?"

They literally get rewarded for being incompetent with the draft system and STILL manage to mess it up.

Geelong went through it themselves, we as supporters know the situation as well as anyone with a 44 year drought. Thankfully we've come a long way from there, but a lot haven't and they're still bitter.




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You truly come across as a complete ass

Stop flinging insults at clubs who are actually well run and I won't have too.

It's not just Geelong, I'm not one of the supporters who can't accept other clubs having success

I commend Hawthorn greatly for their success over such a long period of time. They're down now, but I'm sure they'll be up in the near future due to their track record of doing so.

Same with Sydney, and even Richmond in recent years. You have to respect greatness, you don't have to like it, but if you have any class you'll respect it.

Supporters of your club just don't get it unfortunately and some of the comments in this thread show it.

And before you say it, if you win it this year I'll be the first in here to congratulate you. Just don't get drunk off it like last time and have to rebuild the list.



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Stop flinging insults at clubs who are actually well run and I won't have too.

It's not just Geelong, I'm not one of the supporters who can't accept other clubs having success

I commend Hawthorn greatly for their success over such a long period of time. They're down now, but I'm sure they'll be up in the near future due to their track record of doing so.

Same with Sydney, and even Richmond in recent years. You have to respect greatness, you don't have to like it, but if you have any class you'll respect it.

Supporters of your club just don't get it unfortunately and some of the comments in this thread show it.

And before you say it, if you win it this year I'll be the first in here to congratulate you. Just don't get drunk off it like last time and have to rebuild the list.



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This. I love a good hawthorn slanging match and goddam it did I hate seeing them win but I will willingly cop s**t of most Hawks supporters because their club is success driven and they were a mighty team at their peak and I commend them for trying to hang onto it as long as they could. Even now I don’t agree with Clarkson getting moved on I think it’s a ridiculous move BUT they are doing it because they believe Mitchell with a newish young group is going to get them back up before too long. No ‘we will just see where this leads’ during a five year period treading water in the bottom four. Sydney I respect even moreso. Richmond obviously I respect them for the success they’ve achieved, the jury is still out as to how long it will be before they’re around the mark again as it seems 2021 is a write off but if they bounce back again into the top four next year and the year after then obviously it shows their attitude has changed too and they’re desperate to do what it takes to be sustained.

is anyone honestly going to retrospectively pot, say, West Coast for making the finals 9 times between their flags in 94 and 06? Of course not. Why? Because they were a consistently good strong team who tried to set themselves up for success every season.
 
This. I love a good hawthorn slanging match and goddam it did I hate seeing them win but I will willingly cop sh*t of most Hawks supporters because their club is success driven and they were a mighty team at their peak and I commend them for trying to hang onto it as long as they could. Even now I don’t agree with Clarkson getting moved on I think it’s a ridiculous move BUT they are doing it because they believe Mitchell with a newish young group is going to get them back up before too long. No ‘we will just see where this leads’ during a five year period treading water in the bottom four. Sydney I respect even moreso. Richmond obviously I respect them for the success they’ve achieved, the jury is still out as to how long it will be before they’re around the mark again as it seems 2021 is a write off but if they bounce back again into the top four next year and the year after then obviously it shows their attitude has changed too and they’re desperate to do what it takes to be sustained.

is anyone honestly going to retrospectively pot, say, West Coast for making the finals 9 times between their flags in 94 and 06? Of course not. Why? Because they were a consistently good strong team who tried to set themselves up for success every season.

Exactly

We're not being unreasonable here. Is it that horrible that we're not big on accepting insults from poorly run clubs with little to no success?

What's funny is Dogs supporters, even some in this thread in fact, do the Exact. Same. Thing to Saints supporters.

Unfortunately that's just about the only team they can do it to, but that's neither here nor there.



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Successful? Greatness?

Making finals without winning a flag is not what I'd call successful, matey.

Anyway you're getting way too angsty over a Dogs supporter (me) simply remarking that you looked old and slow against the Kangas in the 4th qtr today.

Would you rather be there every year and in the flag mix (it’s not like we’ve just been running 7-8 every year) or drop off completely have no impact on the competition whatsoever and still be empty handed AND having to start from the bottom again?

* mate your team has won the same amount of flags in the last 10 seasons as we have. If that doesn’t change this season, or we actually add another one, who do you think in their right mind is going to sit back next year and go ‘wow what a successful period it’s been for the dogs they’ve just been so consistent and their players and coach just demand the respect of the AFL community’? Meanwhile on a weekly basis pundits are lauding the remarkable ability of Geelong to be a factor year after year and if another flag tops that off I don’t think anyone is going to be looking back in anger about ‘what could have been if we’d just stopped topping up and went to the draft.’
 
Successful? Greatness?

Making finals without winning a flag is not what I'd call successful, matey.

Anyway you're getting way too angsty over a Dogs supporter (me) simply remarking that you looked old and slow against the Kangas in the 4th qtr today.

3 premierships, 5 Grand Finals, and on track to win another one this year ever since we became a well run club. Heck we still won 6 even when we weren't a well run club.

We have arguments with Hawthorn, Brisbane & Richmond supporters over who's dynasty was the best

......You have arguments with Blues supporters over who's better, Bontempelli or Cripps. There's levels to this sh*t.

There's literally a thread on your board asking whether this is the best dogs team of all time, and you can mount a very good argument that you're not even the best team in the comp. Please.

We've done more in the last 15 years than you have in 100.

Have I made it clear why we're not really pleased with you insulting us or condescendingly pointing out that our list philosophy is wrong? Or need I keep going?

It's all in peace and love my friend, just gotta make the point clear. Get some success and we'll talk.


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Geelong are an awesome club and Chris Scott is probably the most intelligent coach in the league. To consistently make finals for as long as they have in an equalised league is an incredible feat. I stopped trying to guess when the cliff was coming for them years ago because it doesn't happen. They're the best club in the league at recruiting. Players want to go there and are willing to take less salary for the guaranteed success the club offers. They have found a different way of doing things in which they don't need to bottom out and rely on draft picks to rebuild. People talk about their average age as if it's detrimental when in reality its what makes them so good. They're a team full of wily veterans who know what it takes to grind out a season and keep finding wins. It takes a fair bit of luck to be the team holding the cup at the end of the day. The best you can do is get yourself within reach and hope the cards fall your way. Geelong manage to do that every year.
 
Geelong are an awesome club and Chris Scott is probably the most intelligent coach in the league. To consistently make finals for as long as they have in an equalised league is an incredible feat. I stopped trying to guess when the cliff was coming for them years ago because it doesn't happen. They're the best club in the league at recruiting. Players want to go there and are willing to take less salary for the guaranteed success the club offers. They have found a different way of doing things in which they don't need to bottom out and rely on draft picks to rebuild. People talk about their average age as if it's detrimental when in reality its what makes them so good. They're a team full of wily veterans who know what it takes to grind out a season and keep finding wins. It takes a fair bit of luck to be the team holding the cup at the end of the day. The best you can do is get yourself within reach and hope the cards fall your way. Geelong manage to do that every year.

No way....

Rationality? Objective thinking? Here?


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Geelong are an awesome club and Chris Scott is probably the most intelligent coach in the league. To consistently make finals for as long as they have in an equalised league is an incredible feat. I stopped trying to guess when the cliff was coming for them years ago because it doesn't happen. They're the best club in the league at recruiting. Players want to go there and are willing to take less salary for the guaranteed success the club offers. They have found a different way of doing things in which they don't need to bottom out and rely on draft picks to rebuild. People talk about their average age as if it's detrimental when in reality its what makes them so good. They're a team full of wily veterans who know what it takes to grind out a season and keep finding wins. It takes a fair bit of luck to be the team holding the cup at the end of the day. The best you can do is get yourself within reach and hope the cards fall your way. Geelong manage to do that every year.

Very intelligent post and your club literally is at the precipice of being able to do the same IF they take the same approach to their operation: you have a very even list where Bontempelli aside who is clearly your best player (he’s not Ablett good but he reminds me of what Ablett was like relative to his teammates 07-10), basically the next 10-12 guys are all at a similar level, most of them are in a similar age profile to one another and they already have a taste of how to succeed in finals. Now this year or the next few for that matter might yield flags, it might not, but as a supporter I’m certain you’d like to think that if you’re thereabouts and there’s just a couple of little gaps in your list, the powers that be aren’t going to suddenly start looking for a new coach and look to accept that you haven’t won a trophy and start from scratch.

Every year most of the top 5-6 teams goes through some flat patches and almost invariably look back on the home and away season and they’ve dropped a handful of games they shouldn’t have.

geelong DO lose games we shouldn’t - Adelaide this year, carlton last year etc - but there is a reason that we win games like today against an unheralded opponent where we are well off our best 90 per cent of the time - and it is precisely because we have a team stacked with experience, big bodies, hardened footballers who simply recognise when things aren’t working their best and they just find a way to get the job done
 
You know why, right? So many get so caught up in football needing to be 'fair' that they quickly forget that it's a business and people don't want to accept that.

They don't want to accept that the reason their team has been rubbish for so long is directly linked to incompetence within their Front Office. Recruiting the right players, plugging holes in your list, making the club an attractive proposition, handling your salary cap etc.

When a club like Geelong is successful for an unforeseen period of time people don't like that, especially people who are supporters of clubs who have had long periods of drought, as it makes them look at their own club and think "Gee, what the f**k are we doing wrong?"

They literally get rewarded for being incompetent with the draft system and STILL manage to mess it up.

Geelong went through it themselves, we as supporters know the situation as well as anyone with a 44 year drought. Thankfully we've come a long way from there, but a lot haven't and they're still bitter.
[/

Who are you saying is bitter?

The Bont is only 25 years old, we have another 6 or 7 years of a one club player, leading us. The majority of our team were drafted and have grown together. We are not just looking to make finals every year and bomb out, we are building a very talented side for sustained success, if not starting this year the next.

If you consider success is drafting players on the wrong side of 28, and making finals every year courtesy of your oddly shaped ground, with the terrible sound system, than you must be easily pleased.

I thought the purpose of playing was to win flags.
 
Dogs_r_barking if you consider a 63 per cent win rate AWAY from our home ground as a non-factor in why we keep making the finals then you’re easily deluded into thinking you’re qualified to sling mud at another club

In fact if you’re record was a bit better than 10-21 when you played away from YOUR home ground in the last 3 non-COVID seasons you might have been more of a factor in those years.(for comparison we went 24-24 away from KP in those specific years)
We are 8-4 away from them this year.

The internet isn’t hard to use. See we have this debate with oppo fans every year so we know it’s bullshit because it’s been proven to be bullshit season after season.

and yeah, we consider success to be being in the flag race year after year knowing that at the start of any given season there are only a few things we have to tweak to get to the top.
 
Well it's about bloody time then! You only took 100 years!

You've cracked the code after 100 years, good for you, really.

Actively looking for success and trying to win premierships, that's what you're trying to do? Never would have guessed.

See friend, it's one thing to talk about it have it all down on paper. It's another to do it.


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We have not been in the VFL/AFL for 100 years, so a bit of a reach.

So why didn’t Geelong win it last year, or the year before that? Has Geelong ever won a final interstate, apart from last years short quarters COVID cup, which was so kind to old players. Bulldogs have, so maybe you need to look at greatness more broadly.
 
Dogs_r_barking if you consider a 63 per cent win rate AWAY from our home ground as a non-factor in why we keep making the finals then you’re easily deluded into thinking you’re qualified to sling mud at another club

In fact if you’re record was a bit better than 10-21 when you played away from YOUR home ground in the last 3 non-COVID seasons you might have been more of a factor in those years.(for comparison we went 24-24 away from KP in those specific years)
We are 8-4 away from them this year.

The internet isn’t hard to use. See we have this debate with oppo fans every year so we know it’s bullshit because it’s been proven to be bullshit season after season.

and yeah, we consider success to be being in the flag race year after year knowing that at the start of any given season there are only a few things we have to tweak to get to the top.

Not quite sure what I have said that you are responding to here? Bulldogs have won all of the interstate games, the only one we lost was against Geelong by 5 points, which we should not have lost.

In terms of backing up after 2016, we lost key players to early retirement, Picken, concussion, Clay, knees, Tom Boyd, mental health, Dahlhaus, Stringer attitude and form issues, Hamling went home. Roughead fell out with Bevo, we think. We went back to the draft, and five years later we are on top of the ladder, looking at a top four finish. Our team is young, and is only going to get better.

At the end of the day, Hawthorn traded and won four flags in those years, so they did it successfully. that is how I judge that strategy.
 
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We have not been in the VFL/AFL for 100 years, so a bit of a reach.

So why didn’t Geelong win it last year, or the year before that? Has Geelong ever won a final interstate, apart from last years short quarters COVID cup, which was so kind to old players. Bulldogs have, so maybe you need to look at greatness more broadly.

Congrats, maybe if you finished higher on the ladder like us you wouldn't have too.

I'm not even going to get into the home final debate because PhatBoy is doing a tremendous job of making you look stupid.

Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself. We have the facts, you have the bitter opinion. There's a difference.


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Very intelligent post and your club literally is at the precipice of being able to do the same IF they take the same approach to their operation: you have a very even list where Bontempelli aside who is clearly your best player (he’s not Ablett good but he reminds me of what Ablett was like relative to his teammates 07-10), basically the next 10-12 guys are all at a similar level, most of them are in a similar age profile to one another and they already have a taste of how to succeed in finals. Now this year or the next few for that matter might yield flags, it might not, but as a supporter I’m certain you’d like to think that if you’re thereabouts and there’s just a couple of little gaps in your list, the powers that be aren’t going to suddenly start looking for a new coach and look to accept that you haven’t won a trophy and start from scratch.

Every year most of the top 5-6 teams goes through some flat patches and almost invariably look back on the home and away season and they’ve dropped a handful of games they shouldn’t have.

geelong DO lose games we shouldn’t - Adelaide this year, carlton last year etc - but there is a reason that we win games like today against an unheralded opponent where we are well off our best 90 per cent of the time - and it is precisely because we have a team stacked with experience, big bodies, hardened footballers who simply recognise when things aren’t working their best and they just find a way to get the job done

Thank you, I agree. I think we have the list and the coach to be very competitive for the next five years. If we can do it for half as long as Geelong have I'd be stoked.
 
Congrats, maybe if you finished higher on the ladder like us you wouldn't have too.

I'm not even going to get into the home final debate because PhatBoy is doing a tremendous job of making you look stupid.

Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself. We have the facts, you have the bitter opinion. There's a difference.


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Can you and that spam dogs account just STFU
 
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