Who would you prefer with the # 2 pick?

[macca69]

macca isn't it spelt Ryder?

yeh sorry, im quite tired.

 

[deck]

Assuming you guys pick Ellis at 2, and Rhyder and Hurn are available at 5, who would you prefer?

Me i would go for ryder. But that is based on hearing him being compared to pavlich.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

The way I see it

Carlton - Murphy
Collingwood - Ellis
Hawthorn - Kennedy
Carlton - Dowler
Collingwood - Rhyder/Hurn are available.

Jones - dont think he will go that high, he doesn't have much improvement left in him and is very short

Swallow - is a good player, poor disposal and he was passed on last year.

Thomas - while he played a good grand final, can he produce that kind of form consistantly?

Clarke - huge talent, but soft and with an attitude problem (like McDougal)

I'd say Rhyder and Hurn would be the 2 best available.

Considering that Carlton retained both Whitnall and Fevola, there is no chance in hell they take Dowler at #4.

 

[macca69]

Considering that Carlton retained both Whitnall and Fevola, there is no chance in hell they take Dowler at #4.

not so sure about that, they pick the best available, and to them thats Dowler.

 

[FIGJAM]

Me i would go for ryder. But that is based on hearing him being compared to pavlich.

I've heard him compared more to Clem Michael (only a bit taller and hopefully less injury prone). Damaging user of the ball from reports.

If he's either one of our picks, I'll be delighted!

 

[mr incredibe]

are we after a player that can walk into senior footy or a future player.

ellis is a future player, by that i mean he probably wont play fot 2 years so collingwood supporters would have to be paitent, which most are not.. he has definet potential and is worthy of pick 2. pretty sure he is a bottom age player..? could be a superstar will take time.

jones or hurn are both solid boys who could quite possibly play 10 to 15 games next year. but as for future superstars i dont know.

its basicly a choice between a possible superstar(ellis) or solid 150 game players (jones/hurn)
all depends on which way mick wants to go? any thoughts?

 

[FIGJAM]

My thoughts are Mr Incredible, that we should be in the market for a quality tall in our first two picks.

We should simply take best available, tall, mid or ruck.

One thing's for sure, we haven't even looked like declaring our hand. It seems like Ellis is a lock, but I haven't heard anything resembling a rumour about who we want.

That's a good thing I reckon. Colin Wisbey reckons Ellis is less like a Luke Power / Dal Santo combo and more like a Sam Power / Dal Santo combo and ranks him outside of his top 10. I hope we are very much in favour of ignoring the hype and just draft who we think's the best!

 

[mr incredibe]

yeah very true.

Ellis has potential. but potential is the key word
billy morrison had potential too.
i saw Ellis play in gf and was watching him very closely because of all the hype surrounding him, and after that game the only reason he is up around pick2 is potential.. he was very ordinary bar a huge grab he pulled in. didnt look to have any go in him, no second efforts ect. but he is young and who knows could be great.
it is a risk for sure taking him at 2.

who would you take figjam if given the job

 

[FIGJAM]

I have only seen Ellis in the same game you did Mr I, and despite being underwhelmed, it was pretty clear he had class. But so does Sam Power.

I'm not inferring anything, but we have to be careful with these types. With every Nick Dal Santo or Robert Murphy, there is at least one corresponding Aaron Fiora or Sam Power. We have to be uber-careful in assessing this kid I reckon!

I haven't seen the others, so I'll keep my mouth shut. That said, for such high picks, I'd ignore our apparent needs (ie. midfielders), put a list of who I think are likely to be the best five AFL players in the future and select whoever's highest.

If that means getting Ryder and Kennedy, then so be it!

 

[Stan.]

I know we need mids but i wouldnt mind a ryder at 2 and kennedy at 5 combo or ryder at 2 and hurn at 5.

 

[FadeAway]

Ellis...ellis...ellis!!

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

not so sure about that, they pick the best available, and to them thats Dowler.

Both Ryder and Kennedy are as good, if not better (in my opinion they're better) than Dowler. So they would draft either one of them because they're both much more versatile.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Colin Wisbey reckons Ellis is less like a Luke Power / Dal Santo combo and more like a Sam Power / Dal Santo combo and ranks him outside of his top 10. I hope we are very much in favour of ignoring the hype and just draft who we think's the best!

While I trust Wiz's opinions immensely, you have to account for his tendency's. He has a tendency towards liking stronger bodied players with strong leadership skills and away from liking skinnier players.

There's nothing wrong with that - any single person is going to have their biases - but you also have to allow for that when talking about their thoughts on a player. If I were doing player evaluations, I would rate medium sized players (188cm-190cm) pretty low, as I think they're not that important.

IIRC, his view on Dal Santo himself was much the same, and we KNOW he turned out to be a Dal Santo-type player.

Just found it, here are his pre draft quickie comments on Dal Santo

Query - *Dal Santo Clever wing/hbf/onballer best suited to a tagger or defence role on a not over quick opponent. Excellent finisher but I've rated him probably lower than most because he lacks pace, is one sided, and is neither a physically strong in and under type or a ball magnet, and is not especially strong overhead. When you are just under 6', I think you need more going for you.

As I said, I still trust Wiz's thoughts more than any one person, but to properly discriminate between all of the information floating around, you have to take these things into account.

 

[FIGJAM]

Agreed vinnie. He does like stronger mids and underestimates/overestimates pace.

And whilst the Dal Santo example is one of an extreme miss (if you consider a query a miss), it should be noted that in the start of Dal Santo's career, I would have agreed with Wiz's assessment. In fact, I thought he was ordinary! That he has somehow found a few more gears is to his credit, but it isn't exactly common place.

And from that same draft, Wiz correctly flagged Sam Power as being highly overrated.

Don't get me wrong, if we consider Ellis best available at 2 then I'll be happy to pick him up. I've only seen him once! I'm only arguing best available and highlighting that general concensus, as derived from BigFooty, doesn't mean we're going to follow it!

 

[Johnson#26]

Ellis at #2, and maybe, maybe Hurn (I wish!) or Kennedy at 5.

Looking at Dale Thomas (hopefully) at 21 and Varcoe (again, hope) at 23.

 

[eddiesmith]

Hopefully we take the best 2 available midfielders, Ellis and whoever is left at 5.

I reckon the Blues will take a ruckman at pick 4 as they are desperately undermanned in the ruck

We should use our picks 20 and 23 for tall defenders

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Don't get me wrong, if we consider Ellis best available at 2 then I'll be happy to pick him up. I've only seen him once! I'm only arguing best available and highlighting that general concensus, as derived from BigFooty, doesn't mean we're going to follow it!

I completely agree with this, but I personally will have a stroke if we apss on Ellis.

I rate him higher than Murphy, from what I've seen, personally.

People seem to forget that when the talk about Murphy going F/S or not started up he was being proposed as a potential top 3, or top 5 selection. From there on, because of all the hype, he became the consensus #1.

Now, I don't see how he managed to jump in value without doing anything, but that's just me. I still think Xavier Ellis is a more talented player, and for a player with his talent, he has a remarkable footy brain, and is a very mature person, as is seen by the way he went about his footy, even when shoved deep in defense, which is clearly not the best position for him.

He will be the kind of player that will battle hard at doing whatever the team needs him to do, not unlike a James Hird in that trait.

 

[eddiesmith]

If we had the no1 pick there is no doubt you would take Murphy.

 

[chunk_master]

A little birdy, who is found quite frequently at the Lexus Centre tells me that for pick #2 collingwood will go for the lesser known Hamish Hoskins from Warrandyte F.C. who is a mountanous ruckman/chf weighing in at around 120kg+ and a height of 190cm+
and with pick #5 they are looking at Joseph Rush from Xavier College

 

[Murray]

A little birdy, who is found quite frequently at the Lexus Centre tells me that for pick #2 collingwood will go for the lesser known Hamish Hoskins from Warrandyte F.C. who is a mountanous ruckman/chf weighing in at around 120kg+ and a height of 190cm+
and with pick #5 they are looking at Joseph Rush from Xavier College

Hello Hamish - How are you?

Trying to pump yourself up on this board won't necessarily get you drafted to our club.
But good luck anyway

 

[deck]

I've heard him compared more to Clem Michael (only a bit taller and hopefully less injury prone). Damaging user of the ball from reports.

If he's either one of our picks, I'll be delighted!

His profile on the AFL site has him up being a Josh Fraser type.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

His profile on the AFL site has him up being a Josh Fraser type.

He's a fair bit shorter than Josh, a bit quicker, and probably has a better leap.

However, I do see the comparison, strangely. He is likely to play much the same way that Josh Fraser does.

 

[Lockyer24]

Agreed vinnie. He does like stronger mids and underestimates/overestimates pace.

And whilst the Dal Santo example is one of an extreme miss (if you consider a query a miss), it should be noted that in the start of Dal Santo's career, I would have agreed with Wiz's assessment. In fact, I thought he was ordinary! That he has somehow found a few more gears is to his credit, but it isn't exactly common place.

The only difference I see between Dal at U18 and Ellis would be that Dal played on ball most weeks and was a touch shorter than Ellis. He grew a lot physically just as he hit the AFL. They both seem to use the ball really well. Im more than happy to pick up skilful sticks cos you can usually always help them fill out, actually getting the ball and using it you can't.

Anyway I reckon Pick 2 will definately be X-L

Pick 5 almost surely will be Patrick Ryder based on preference and who I think will be taken before him

I have the feeling Hurn will slide a touch

 

[bradrowe#32]

Pendlebury is nothing like Dal Santo, but I wouldn't mind him at #21, provided all of Jones, Oakley-Nicholls, Varcoe, Swallow, Thomas, Douglas and Pfeiffer are all off the board.

It could potentially happen that all of those players are gone, but if any of them were there, we'd have to take one.

I'm not sure about your creditials Vinnie, but both Kevin Sheahan and Kevin Bartlett both compared Pendlebury to Del Santo during the TAC grand final.

 

[Murray]

Marc Murphy

Otherwise:

Xavier Ellis

Ditto