List Mgmt. Who would you rather have?

[Cursed Cat]

Kersten will surprise most next season. Super talented key forward who is finally getting through a whole preseason unscathed.

I'd love for Kersten to surprise me Bobby_, but I have doubts as to where he can fit into the 22 - I was a big advocate of his maybe 2 years ago, but with Menzel fit(ish) again, and genuine options in the key forward posts, I'm not sure where he fits in.

I've said previously that if he could actually play as a leading full forward I'd like his chances, unfortunately for Kersten, Hawkins is a pretty big obstacle in his path.

Similarly, I reckon Clark and/or Vardy will get chances in front of him as a CHF (I've gone rogue on calling for Henderson to play at CHF, something that I don't really think will eventuate).

I don't like Kersten as a flanker/forward pocket though; not enough agility, not adept enough below the knees, and tends to go missing for long patches.

I hope you're right and he is tearing it up on the track, but even then I think there's a bit of a queue in front of him.

 

[catempire]

On talent: 1. Smedts, 2. Kersten, 3. McCarthy, 4. Cowan.

On need for 2016 and beyond: 1. Smedts, 2. McCarthy, 3. Kersten, 4. Cowan

On who I think is most likely to make it balancing talent, need, opportunities, injury prone-ness (yes, that's a medical term), etc.: 1. Smedts, 2. Kersten, 3. Cowan, 4. McCarthy

 

[ChookNorris]

Kersten will surprise most next season. Super talented key forward who is finally getting through a whole preseason unscathed.

Needs to start showing a bit more, only will get a game when Menzel gets managed for me at this stage, which will probably end up being a few games hah

 

[catempire]

I'd love for Kersten to surprise me Bobby_, but I have doubts as to where he can fit into the 22 - I was a big advocate of his maybe 2 years ago, but with Menzel fit(ish) again, and genuine options in the key forward posts, I'm not sure where he fits in.

I've said previously that if he could actually play as a leading full forward I'd like his chances, unfortunately for Kersten, Hawkins is a pretty big obstacle in his path.

Similarly, I reckon Clark and/or Vardy will get chances in front of him as a CHF (I've gone rogue on calling for Henderson to play at CHF, something that I don't really think will eventuate).

I don't like Kersten as a flanker/forward pocket though; not enough agility, not adept enough below the knees, and tends to go missing for long patches.

I hope you're right and he is tearing it up on the track, but even then I think there's a bit of a queue in front of him.

Apart from the bolded, with which I disagree based on seeing a lot of his VFL work, I reckon you've nailed it as to why he might struggle to surprise anyone (except perhaps Bobby).

At VFL level he gets to be the focal point, playing on smaller bodied defenders and he gets the benefit of the greater space that VFL matches tend to be played in which suits his ability to take marks on the lead and beat his less agile opponents to the ball at ground level.

At AFL level, he is not big enough and doesn't take enough contested marks to be a key forward so he is a 3rd tall at best. But in that role he doesn't get near the ball anywhere near enough, particularly in a Hawkins-obsessed side. Throw Clark or Vardy in there and there just aren't enough opportunities for him. I also think he struggled with Geelong's poor ball movement in 2015 which was far too slow and resulted in space in our forward 50 being pretty much non-existent.

As above, I think he has the talent but I think circumstances might work against him making it.

 

[Willo_]

Apart from the bolded, with which I disagree based on seeing a lot of his VFL work, I reckon you've nailed it as to why he might struggle to surprise anyone (except perhaps Bobby).

At VFL level he gets to be the focal point, playing on smaller bodied defenders and he gets the benefit of the greater space that VFL matches tend to be played in which suits his ability to take marks on the lead and beat his less agile opponents to the ball at ground level.

At AFL level, he is not big enough and doesn't take enough contested marks to be a key forward so he is a 3rd tall at best. But in that role he doesn't get near the ball anywhere near enough, particularly in a Hawkins-obsessed side. Throw Clark or Vardy in there and there just aren't enough opportunities for him. I also think he struggled with Geelong's poor ball movement in 2015 which was far too slow and resulted in space in our forward 50 being pretty much non-existent.

As above, I think he has the talent but I think circumstances might work against him making it.

He's timid as well, doesn't demand the ball, and doesn't attack it in the air the way he should IMO

 

[Cursed Cat]

Apart from the bolded, with which I disagree based on seeing a lot of his VFL work, I reckon you've nailed it as to why he might struggle to surprise anyone (except perhaps Bobby).

At VFL level he gets to be the focal point, playing on smaller bodied defenders and he gets the benefit of the greater space that VFL matches tend to be played in which suits his ability to take marks on the lead and beat his less agile opponents to the ball at ground level.

At AFL level, he is not big enough and doesn't take enough contested marks to be a key forward so he is a 3rd tall at best. But in that role he doesn't get near the ball anywhere near enough, particularly in a Hawkins-obsessed side. Throw Clark or Vardy in there and there just aren't enough opportunities for him. I also think he struggled with Geelong's poor ball movement in 2015 which was far too slow and resulted in space in our forward 50 being pretty much non-existent.

As above, I think he has the talent but I think circumstances might work against him making it.

I could see Kersten thriving at a club like Freo working outta the goal square.
I hope he does surprise me; I wouldn't be shocked though, because he clearly has talent.

 

[you pick one]

He's timid as well, doesn't demand the ball, and doesn't attack it in the air the way he should IMO

I don't see him as timid as in the way I saw Mitch Brown.I reckon Cursed cat and Empire summed it up for me between them,

"I've said previously that if he could actually play as a leading full forward I'd like his chances, unfortunately for Kersten, Hawkins is a pretty big obstacle in his path.

Similarly, I reckon Clark and/or Vardy will get chances in front of him as a CHF"

"At AFL level, he is not big enough and doesn't take enough contested marks to be a key forward so he is a 3rd tall at best. But in that role he doesn't get near the ball anywhere near enough, particularly in a Hawkins-obsessed side. Throw Clark or Vardy in there and there just aren't enough opportunities for him."
Square peg round hole.Will be gone end of 2016.

 

[you pick one]

Needs to start showing a bit more, only will get a game when Menzel gets managed for me at this stage, which will probably end up being a few games hah

Do you have him at first drop? I think that's generous on out put to date.

 

[ChookNorris]

Do you have him at first drop? I think that's generous on out put to date.

Probably not but he's pretty close to resembling a medium forward.

 

[Willo_]

I don't see him as timid as in the way I saw Mitch Brown.I reckon Cursed cat and Empire summed it up for me between them,

"I've said previously that if he could actually play as a leading full forward I'd like his chances, unfortunately for Kersten, Hawkins is a pretty big obstacle in his path.

Similarly, I reckon Clark and/or Vardy will get chances in front of him as a CHF"

"At AFL level, he is not big enough and doesn't take enough contested marks to be a key forward so he is a 3rd tall at best. But in that role he doesn't get near the ball anywhere near enough, particularly in a Hawkins-obsessed side. Throw Clark or Vardy in there and there just aren't enough opportunities for him."
Square peg round hole.Will be gone end of 2016.

FWIW I never saw Brown as timid... I saw him throwing himself into contests harder than I have ever seen Kersten do it...

Brown just never had the frame to have the impact

But we probably don't need to bring this up again

 

[David the Cat]

I would have said Kersten easily, but I really didn't like his 2015.
Although he's always injured, there's something exciting about McCarthy.

Perhaps its the expectation that one day he will kick a goal?

 

[you pick one]

FWIW I never saw Brown as timid... I saw him throwing himself into contests harder than I have ever seen Kersten do it...

Brown just never had the frame to have the impact

But we probably don't need to bring this up again

Well we're in agreement on the last sentence.

 

[you pick one]

Perhaps its the expectation that one day he will kick a goal?

Any chance to play this thanks David.

 

[David the Cat]

LOL..yes a classic....split the middle both times!

Not sure McCarthy's first will generate the same hype....except maybe for VC...??

 

[dangerwood]

I'd love for Kersten to surprise me Bobby_,
I don't like Kersten as a flanker/forward pocket though; not enough agility, not adept enough below the knees, and tends to go missing for long patches.

I actually think he is phenomenal below his knees, ive seen him several times running flat out not break stride and collect the ball. Its whats made me think how talented he is, my only issue with him is he appears to not really want to play.

 

[vinum coupe]

I actually think he is phenomenal below his knees, ive seen him several times running flat out not break stride and collect the ball. Its whats made me think how talented he is, my only issue with him is he appears to not really want to play.

There's the possibility he just doesn't know where to run at AFL level.
At VFL level he can pretty much stay deep forward and lead to where he wants.

But at afl level it's more likely you'll get the ball running back into 50 after being up the ground.
Just a little theory.

But I think that he doesn't feel like he belongs at the level. I hope he finds that belief damn quickly if that's the case.

 

[dazbroncos]

There's the possibility he just doesn't know where to run at AFL level.
At VFL level he can pretty much stay deep forward and lead to where he wants.

But at afl level it's more likely you'll get the ball running back into 50 after being up the ground.
Just a little theory.

But I think that he doesn't feel like he belongs at the level. I hope he finds that belief damn quickly if that's the case.

I think this is a big factor. As you rightly say, in the VFL he pretty much can go anywhere.

With Hawkins, Clark et al, he was playing the 3rd role and IMO was far to mindful of trying to stay out their way.

As you say - he needs to feel like he belongs and do it quick. He has the talent and the leg - just needs the belief and the fitness to carry it through. Otherwise he's not gonna be the only one wondering if he could have named it.

Go Catters

 

[Seeds]

Because he has shown better form at senior level. That a lot of people seem desperate to forget.

Unfortunately that form was atleast three years ago. He hasn't played one good senior game since.

 

[Partridge]

Unfortunately that form was atleast three years ago. He hasn't played one good senior game since.

Three years ago? For Smedts, that would be the end of 2012. Since then, he kicked 10 goals in 7 games at the start of 2013 as a medium forward, with 2 goals on 4 occasions and between 13-15 games on 4 occasions as well. This year against Fremantle in Round 2 he was far from our worst. Even late in the season against Brisbane, a horrible first quarter, but after that he was fine.

Personally I think a few now want him to fail.

As for a comparison, Kersten played one good game this year (versus Carlton), and 2-3 good to solid games last season after he debuted. McCarthy and Cowan have never played games as good as either.

 

[vinum coupe]

Three years ago? For Smedts, that would be the end of 2012. Since then, he kicked 10 goals in 7 games at the start of 2013 as a medium forward, with 2 goals on 4 occasions and between 13-15 games on 4 occasions as well. This year against Fremantle in Round 2 he was far from our worst. Even late in the season against Brisbane, a horrible first quarter, but after that he was fine.

Personally I think a few now want him to fail.

As for a comparison, Kersten played one good game this year (versus Carlton), and 2-3 good to solid games last season after he debuted. McCarthy and Cowan have never played games as good as either.

If you were to pick a best 22 I bet you can't find a spot for Smedts.
I can't find a spot for any of the four to be honest, as much as I want Kersten to succeed.

Our best forward line would be something like ...

Menzel - Vardy - Motlop
Clark - Hawkins - Lang

Gee, you could slot Cockatoo, Gregson, Murdoch, and Caddy in the front half before those 4 in the poll.
And they aren't playing back. And the midfield looks full to me.

As I've said previously, it's about time players busted their way into the side.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Interesting list of "coulda been Champions" - one thing seems inevitable though none of them should be on the 2017 list unless they show something substantial in 2016.
Of the list Smedts playing forward would be my pick but the other 3 all seem to have something to offer but potential needs realising eventually
Kersten is the most frustrating to me but then again it's well known over here that he fell in love with himself at a very early age and has remained faithful ever since

 

[Partridge]

If you were to pick a best 22 I bet you can't find a spot for Smedts.
I can't find a spot for any of the four to be honest, as much as I want Kersten to succeed.

Our best forward line would be something like ...

Menzel - Vardy - Motlop
Clark - Hawkins - Lang

That's a very subjective view - I reckon everyone would have a different combination of what our best forward setup would be. In any case, just looking at Vardy, Clark and Menzel, what are the odds all three stay fit and out there for any length of time?

Gee, you could slot Cockatoo, Gregson, Murdoch, and Caddy in the front half before those 4 in the poll.
And they aren't playing back. And the midfield looks full to me.

As I've said previously, it's about time players busted their way into the side.

Smedts did exactly that last year. His form in the VFL was very good and in one game in particular (can't recall against who, it was on TV) he looked a mile above VFL level. Was brought back as a sub against GWS and from memory spent very little time on the ground. Then played against Brisbane, which consisted of a horrible first quarter and three solid quarters after it. He got dropped. He may or may not have deserved that but it shouldn't be stated that he didn't force his way into the team on merit, because he did.

 

[Partridge]

Interesting list of "coulda been Champions" - one thing seems inevitable though none of them should be on the 2017 list unless they show something substantial in 2016.
Of the list Smedts playing forward would be my pick but the other 3 all seem to have something to offer but potential needs realising eventually
Kersten is the most frustrating to me but then again it's well known over here that he fell in love with himself at a very early age and has remained faithful ever since

Smedts got a two year contract. He's here until the end of 2017. It's amazing how frequently this has to be mentioned.

If the other three all have one year deals (or one year remaining) then absolutely, it's this year or else. There are a few in that position.

 

[Smedts_2]

That's a very subjective view - I reckon everyone would have a different combination of what our best forward setup would be. In any case, just looking at Vardy, Clark and Menzel, what are the odds all three stay fit and out there for any length of time?



Smedts did exactly that last year. His form in the VFL was very good and in one game in particular (can't recall against who, it was on TV) he looked a mile above VFL level. Was brought back as a sub against GWS and from memory spent very little time on the ground. Then played against Brisbane, which consisted of a horrible first quarter and three solid quarters after it. He got dropped. He may or may not have deserved that but it shouldn't be stated that he didn't force his way into the team on merit, because he did.

Billie needs someone to commit to giving him 5 games in a row. The bullshit he's been put through with 1 game in a row, getting dropped every time and no time to build confidence, has been a terrible match committee approach.

 

[Partridge]

Billie needs someone to commit to giving him 5 games in a row. The bullshit he's been put through with 1 game in a row, getting dropped every time and no time to build confidence, has been a terrible match committee approach.

It's not unique either unfortunately.