Analysis Whole of Club issue - not one single factor to the Crows demise

[Cockwomble]

Love this thread some really relevant comments

 

[Eagleboy2011]

That's the problem, they'll resist that again.

Who wans to be told their incompetent and sacked. No hope of it happening.

 

[SugarShane]

Winning a premiership is a nice cherry on top if it came along but not why they are there and doing what they do.
The powers there don't have an absolute fierce, ferocious, insatiable appetite to leave no stone unturned, everything it takes, club is bigger than the individual style attitude and determination for it.

Always striving for it in the way of a nice by-product of forging out careers for themselves individually.

Everyone is doing a job. Clock in, collect payslip, clock out. Don’t rock the boat, don’t upset the gravy train. And it goes for admin and most players.

 

[SugarShane]

Who wans to be told their incompetent and sacked. No hope of it happening.

Like an overweight person avoiding the doctor. They already know exactly what the doc will say but don’t want to hear it.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Like an overweight person avoiding the doctor. They already know exactly what the doc will say but don’t want to hear it.

Or a Port supporter being told they need to see a dentist.

 

[Rotayjay]

Interesting is that most companies align to some sort of standard, is there a national/international standard for sporting organisations? At least as a benchmark? How do you audit/review yourself without known standards?

On Phone 2 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Hawthorn

Richmond and Collingwood of late (external reviews etc)

West Coast

 

[LordLucifer]

I refrained from posting in this thread not long after the weekend's game as it may have come over as blatant trolling or even worse, gloating which is not the reason I wanted attributed to my thoughts.

I keep reading a number of the threads & posts on this club board and therefore, have a 'reasonable' grasp on things within the Adelaide club but I'm the first to admit I don't intimately know the inside stuff like many of the rank & file posters here do.

However, that doesn't preclude me from throwing my two-bobs worth in either.

Clearly changes have to happen, otherwise it will be more of the same for the Crows in 2020 & 2021. I know that sounds like "Capt. Obvious" but which changes get made or are considered a priority will ultimately determine how quickly and/or thoroughly things get turned around.

There is no one area/department that was listed by the OP which on its own, is more important and strategic in the pursuit of success than the others but they all have a numbers of ways they could be approached.

1. Club Administration/Board
At risk of contradicting myself, this is probably the one aspect that can solve all of the problems as a good management team will make good choices & appoint quality people. No doubt a shake-up of the board will set things in motion but having a President in the 'benign dictator' mould won't hurt either.

2. Football Administration
Time for some new blood and preferably from outside the club, have to stop appointing former premiership players even though they may be decent people. Hard-nosed operators will make hard-nosed decisions when necessary, there is no room for sentiment and niceties now.

3. Coaching Panel
This is where it gets tricky.

(I) sack Pyke …. the cost of sacking him ($$$) may prevent it from happening
(II) sack some or all of the assistant coaches …. new voices = new attitude
(III) sack the lot of them …. might be the best thing that could happen actually but is probably not a reality

4. Playing List
This is where the club, if it gets the right administration behind it, have to make some very hard decisions and they are faced with two very harsh paths to follow. Both have positives & negatives so it will depend on the people running the show as to which way they go.

(I) get rid of some of the older higher-paid and replace them with alternatives secured through trade or FA
(II) completely go 'Ground Zero' ala Carlton and replenish the list over a couple of years with quality talented youth and build from there.

I can't see the club holding on to the older brigade now as there is nothing to gain from them in the long term. Completely flip the list and you risk member/supporter backlash if you don't have buy in from them as there is going to be a couple of lean years in front of them.

The other possible option would be to do absolutely nothing (or bare minimum) with the list and hope things magically turnaround next year. Massive risk that is not worth taking but unless there are changes to the sections 1, 2 & 3, this may just happen which would be catastrophic for the club in the long-term.

 

[mcattack]

I refrained from posting in this thread not long after the weekend's game as it may have come over as blatant trolling or even worse, gloating which is not the reason I wanted attributed to my thoughts.

I keep reading a number of the threads & posts on this club board and therefore, have a 'reasonable' grasp on things within the Adelaide club but I'm the first to admit I don't intimately know the inside stuff like many of the rank & file posters here do.

However, that doesn't preclude me from throwing my two-bobs worth in either.

Clearly changes have to happen, otherwise it will be more of the same for the Crows in 2020 & 2021. I know that sounds like "Capt. Obvious" but which changes get made or are considered a priority will ultimately determine how quickly and/or thoroughly things get turned around.

There is no one area/department that was listed by the OP which on its own, is more important and strategic in the pursuit of success than the others but they all have a numbers of ways they could be approached.

1. Club Administration/Board
At risk of contradicting myself, this is probably the one aspect that can solve all of the problems as a good management team will make good choices & appoint quality people. No doubt a shake-up of the board will set things in motion but having a President in the 'benign dictator' mould won't hurt either.

2. Football Administration
Time for some new blood and preferably from outside the club, have to stop appointing former premiership players even though they may be decent people. Hard-nosed operators will make hard-nosed decisions when necessary, there is no room for sentiment and niceties now.

3. Coaching Panel
This is where it gets tricky.

(I) sack Pyke …. the cost of sacking him ($$$) may prevent it from happening
(II) sack some or all of the assistant coaches …. new voices = new attitude
(III) sack the lot of them …. might be the best thing that could happen actually but is probably not a reality

4. Playing List
This is where the club, if it gets the right administration behind it, have to make some very hard decisions and they are faced with two very harsh paths to follow. Both have positives & negatives so it will depend on the people running the show as to which way they go.

(I) get rid of some of the older higher-paid and replace them with alternatives secured through trade or FA
(II) completely go 'Ground Zero' ala Carlton and replenish the list over a couple of years with quality talented youth and build from there.

I can't see the club holding on to the older brigade now as there is nothing to gain from them in the long term. Completely flip the list and you risk member/supporter backlash if you don't have buy in from them as there is going to be a couple of lean years in front of them.

The other possible option would be to do absolutely nothing (or bare minimum) with the list and hope things magically turnaround next year. Massive risk that is not worth taking but unless there are changes to the sections 1, 2 & 3, this may just happen which would be catastrophic for the club in the long-term.

Ground zero would be a mistake. Target our weak spot and trade the heck out of our mids and fwds.

 

[MRB37]

Do we seem to have an entirely privileged playing group? The amount of bitching and finger pointing coming from certain players upon being dropped is really telling.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Do we seem to have an entirely privileged playing group? The amount of bitching and finger pointing coming from certain players upon being dropped is really telling.

not to mention the amount of bitching and moaning they did when they had to hand in their phones for 24 hours on camp

I would go as far as saying they lack real honesty with each other and this is evident in Tex saying he will never question the playwear effort

Memo to Tex, here is a list of games where players effort should have been questioned

Hawthorn
North Melb
Geelong
Port
Essendom
Carlton

 

[Don Muraco]

not to mention the amount of bitching and moaning they did when they had to hand in their phones for 24 hours on camp

I would go as far as saying they lack real honesty with each other and this is evident in Tex saying he will never question the playwear effort

Memo to Tex, here is a list of games where players effort should have been questioned

Hawthorn
North Melb
Geelong
Port
Essendom
Carlton

Tex has learnt from management if you don't question others, they won't question you.

 

[LordLucifer]

Ground zero would be a mistake. Target our weak spot and trade the heck out of our mids and fwds.

I understand your reticence but it looks like you need a bit more than some bandaid solutions right now. Build a list that can work together for the long-term would be my preference.

With O'Brien, Fogarty and a few others, some of the basics are already there to build upon.

 

[SaltPeter]

I understand your reticence but it looks like you need a bit more than some bandaid solutions right now. Build a list that can work together for the long-term would be my preference.

With O'Brien, Fogarty and a few others, some of the basics are already there to build upon.

GF appearance was a false dawn

 

[Thetrader15]

Maybe we exist to win premierships?

To make the finals

 

[Mismatched]

Ground zero would be a mistake. Target our weak spot and trade the heck out of our mids and fwds.

Ground Zero Carlton style is a long way off. I think our list is such that we bat 35 odd deep in terms of players capable of playing decent AFL right now. The trouble is we have no superstars and our top end talent is for a large part aging and not performing.

I think we can cut 8-10 deep of experienced players and still have a very competitive side which we could actually blood some young talent in and around effectively.

 

[Mismatched]

Its been a few years since I have started a new thread however with the teams demise I just wanted to share my thoughts and create a discussion on what has caused our demise, in my opinion there is not one single factor its a mutilple of factors, they include:

1. List Management
2. Footy Program
3. Player Leadership
4. Team Selection

Firstly List Mgt
Once upon a day under Noble's guidance the club would not offer multi year deals to players who had past 30 and would prefer to offer 2 year deals to players who were 29 approaching 30. However now we have Gibbs, Eddie, Tex, JJ and Lynch all on multi year deals which now creates further issues at selection and how to now re-generate this list.

Footy Program
3 years ago Fagan and Chapman promised an elite footy program, since this decision we have lost Noble and replaced him with Burton and lost coaches like JPod, Teague and Francou, with this in mind it can be argued that our coaching strength has gone backwards, Campo has been there too long, Hart has failed in every role to date, our midfield has gone backwards under Godden who has never been head hunted for any other AFL job and I think Mattner has done a good job considering our defence is under fire due to the midfield and forward line under performing

Roo cannot escape criticism either, he seems to be at the club by Title alone and I cant see where he is stamping any influence on the club other than making comments in the media.

Roo has a similar position to that of Dunstall when he went to Hawthorn, what is clear Dunstall was active in driving change at Hawthorn and went against the easy decision to hire Ayres over Clarkson and as a result has left his mark in an off-field role at the club. However Roo was central in getting Burton to the club, is a strong supporter of Campo and was keen to bring Goody back as a Head Coach.....

Like all, I love Roo however if he is to stay in a Board role he needs to be as ruthless off the field as he was on the field.

Player Leadership
This is a biggy for me....... Walshy use to talk about Nan-Conversations however over the past 2 years I've heard Tex say on numerous occassions that he would never ever question the players effort, which in itself is disturbing!

How can you be an elite program that reviews thoroughly however your not prepared to question effort when effort has a major contribution to the outcome of a game?

Lets also go back to the famous camp of two pre-seasons ago, my info is the players had a sook about not having mobile phones for 2 days however there were protocols put in place for family to reach players if an immediate or urgent issue was to arise......….. this grievance by the players (about the phones) went on for too long and demonstrates to me the culture of the playing group.

Interesting that the two playing groups that have complained about pre-seanson camps (Adelaide / Melbourne) are now struggling to be tough enough for long enough on the field.

Now I hear that with Gibbs, JJ, Douglas and Betts all being dropped this year that their are members of the playing group don't like playing with the fear of the selection axe over their head!!! Honestly have I missed something here? Hasn't football always been a performance based sport, if your in good form you play, if your in poor form you risk the chance of losing your spot

Team Selection
Let me start of by saying that I am a supporter of Pyke however my support is starting to dissolve and my biggest concern is his selection policy, Pyke's selection policy doesn't reward form, lacks courage to change his preferred structure and its 100% focus on winning next week.

The lack of having an eye on the future creates a selection behaviour to keep going back to the likes of DMac, Gibbs, Douglas and Otten in the hope that thier experience will help us get the 4 points but in doing so we lose the opportunity to play players who will hopefully be our future.

We are not going to win the flag this year, finishing 8th or 10th makes minimal difference to me so lets take the Clarkson approach and play players who wil be part of your next premiership challenge

There is a lot that needs to be fixed to get us back challenging and playing consistent footy

I've made some big posts regarding our playing list elsewhere, but there's no doubt this is a whole of club issue. Our sides performance over the past 2 years in no way properly represents the quality of the players. When this happens, the issue generally resides with cultures, with coaching and with admin/support staff.

Our leaders can come out call for calm, claim there's nothing to see here, subtly blame the playing group as much as they like, but when we lose games like we have, its the players subconscious way of saying they're not happy. They may not even realise it, but motivation and commitment to the team simply isn't there.

 

[LordLucifer]

Ground zero would be a mistake. Target our weak spot and trade the heck out of our mids and fwds.

Ground Zero Carlton style is a long way off. I think our list is such that we bat 35 odd deep in terms of players capable of playing decent AFL right now. The trouble is we have no superstars and our top end talent is for a large part aging and not performing.

I think we can cut 8-10 deep of experienced players and still have a very competitive side which we could actually blood some young talent in and around effectively.

It's been a few weeks since this thread had most of it's input but the one aspect that has really been shaken up is what appears to be happening with the playing list.

Douglas & Otten have now retired.
Betts & Jacobs appear certain to be elsewhere next year.
Jenkins and a couple of other players sound like they will be certain trade-bait.
If you believe the scuttlebutt, there is another 5-6 players who want out too.

This points to the distinct possibility of a 'ground zero' approach especially when you mix in the changes to the coaching panel that are going to take place.

I really hope those in control of making the decisions continue to make the tough calls for your club instead of doing enough just to appease the restless natives.

 

[marty36]

It's been a few weeks since this thread had most of it's input but the one aspect that has really been shaken up is what appears to be happening with the playing list.

Douglas & Otten have now retired.
Betts & Jacobs appear certain to be elsewhere next year.
Jenkins and a couple of other players sound like they will be certain trade-bait.
If you believe the scuttlebutt, there is another 5-6 players who want out too.

This points to the distinct possibility of a 'ground zero' approach especially when you mix in the changes to the coaching panel that are going to take place.

I really hope those in control of making the decisions continue to make the tough calls for your club instead of doing enough just to appease the restless natives.

our big issue will be the need to attempt to stay competitive maybe bring in some experienced players with the trades we have

I think most would rather go full on draft see what our list is like, then re hash in a years time if need be, it may take a few years to get the list right, which is what SOS has done with his list or it could take 5 years

 

[BringbackWebb]

I think it's even simpler than that, right from the board and the chairman, we have to ask what is the precise objective given to the football department?

I have a suspicion it is something like this: 'working together to generate a positive and admired on-field performance contributing to team results where the brand of Adelaide is consistently enhanced and reinforced by the actions and efforts of the team such that commercial outcomes are exceeded leading to our mutual success as a sporting based organisation.'

You tell that to most footballers and they would look back blankly, let alone 18 year-old players!

No mention of winning the premiership I suspect.

 

[craig crowing]

Know a lot changed since last post on here with in particular Pyke and .Campo and Burton gone but as many posters said at time did we go far enough.
As i was sooooo happy to see Burton go and time it took to get Nicks appointed after review etc etc there were not of good alternative ass. coaches etc available.
But after pre season games and Sydney game it is very apparent we still have a lot of problems and looking like short term not lot of answers.

GAME PlAN
Well our clearances were diabolical at best and we are supposed to have one of AFL emerging ruckman and 3 highly AFL players in Crouch bros. and Sloane
If we happen to get a clearance it is a quick kick or handball and never a running clear clearance.
Is it the structure and who mainly responsible here Godden or Clark or is it the players we have bearing in mind that between them
Matt C - Brad C , Sloane and Smith would use a big percentage of our salary cap and youth like Galluccu Jones etc shown nothing.

Forward Structure and Entry
Personally think that the players we had in forward line are as good as had for awhile as whilst Stengle showed not going to be as good as Eddie but can provide as good as Eddie did last year and would have .
Davis has little X factor missing from previous flankers and Murphy lacks skill but provides that pressure and of course Fogarty with decent entry and open forward line could be a AFL elite player.
Walker looks in best shape for awhile (but lets forget this ruck and wing stuff )
But with no run from defence or clearances and bl---y awful kicking into forward lines either a bomb in air or pass to opposition makes life difficult but there seems no structure or adapting or creating space to lead and kick into.
The most obvious answer at season end is to send Hart camping with Burton in Tibet.
Defence
We put too many players back there that have no idea how to defend or even tackle and of course how to kick a ball .

RECRUITING
Trades
Look club did move in right direction in clearing older players to give opportunity although giving away Keath for a packet of crisps was poor and surely could have met somewhere with $ and term to keep.
The Gibbs trade was a massive error, although have to admit I wanted him but got screwed with costs of apart from just a shadow.
Recruiting
Well i have been pretty clear that I think our recruiting over last 5- 6 years been very poor with only Doedee , Milera and Fogarty shown anything and lets face it contary to posters thoughts we have had the best lot of top draft picks in our history.
We just can't keep blowing 1st round and 2nd round picks.
Gallucci-- Poholke and Jones-- McHenry picks especially in a super draft have been totally wasted .
Although I realise Jones and to lesser extent McHenry could still be good players just not to the standard would have like or others in draft .
Surely Hamish and team need to be reviewed as you have to get your top picks right as no good clearing space in team if haven't got the talent to move the club forward. Maybe we should get Bicks onto the job or poach the Port recruiter.
Obviously Chapman etc etc etc are others that need replacing.
Just my thoughts as I want to see something positive happen even if have bad year.

 

[1970crow]

You go back to the mission/vision statement organisations write and start by identifying if you are meeting that.

Does anyone know what the Adelaide Crows mission statement is?

“We exist to exist”

 

[1970crow]

Our coaching staff would rank 18th in the league. It’s terrible.

It’s not looking any better yet.

 

[Sack Chapman]

Our poor drafting over the last few years, the lack of quality trading and being unable to retain quality players also have to be included.

 

[hey shorty]

Our poor drafting over the last few years, the lack of quality trading and being unable to retain quality players also have to be included.

Poor drafting ??

 

[hey shorty]

Recruiting
Well i have been pretty clear that I think our recruiting over last 5- 6 years been very poor with only Doedee , Milera and Fogarty shown anything and lets face it contary to posters thoughts we have had the best lot of top draft picks in our history.
We just can't keep blowing 1st round and 2nd round picks.
Gallucci-- Poholke and Jones-- McHenry picks especially in a super draft have been totally wasted .
Although I realise Jones and to lesser extent McHenry could still be good players just not to the standard would have like or others in draft .
Surely Hamish and team need to be reviewed as you have to get your top picks right as no good clearing space in team if haven't got the talent to move the club forward. Maybe we should get Bicks onto the job or poach the Port recruiter.
Obviously Chapman etc etc etc are others that need replacing.
Just my thoughts as I want to see something positive happen even if have bad year.

It's probably best to keep those thoughts to yourself.