Analysis Whole of Club issue - not one single factor to the Crows demise

[Mutineer]

Its what he is, and sadly he wasn't good enough.

Apologies for quoting you I thought I was quoting 1970 Crow's comment on us bulking him up which as the record shows was not the case , drafted at 82kg and according to footywire played at 83kg in his last season with us.
I think a lot are confusing the body make-up of Mitch Grigg post the Crows with Norwood to be honest.

 

[Freomaniac]

Right, it would appear that we would agree on the first part. Correct me if that isn't that isn't the case.

Sorry, can't agree on the second part. Outside of the Bulldogs in 2016 and us in 1998, no side has looked like winning a flag from outside the top 4. We only won the flag in 1998 after a massive loss in the first week of the finals to Melbourne, and due to an anomaly in the system at the time were not bundled out in the first week. You are not normally a genuine contender if you are not in the top 4 at the end of the minor round. As for your points about 2014, both those clubs did make the prelim in that year after finishing 5th to 8th. Certainly in North's case they got found out in the prelim. They were never genuine contenders that year.

I stand by what I said about choosing between Craig and Eade. To indulge you, I would probably pick Eade, as I think 3 prelims on the trott with that side was a fair effort, and I thought were probably robbed of a victory in 2009. I am sorry, but I don't rate Craig as a finals coach, and plenty of other Crows supporters don't either. The Crows record once they made finals has not been flash for a long time. From 2007-2009, we won 1 final, against an Essendon side that lost more games than they won. We even somehow managed to lose at home to Collingwood in 2008, who barely scrapped in.

Whether it is realistic or not, YES, I expect success every year. Every club should, otherwise you are wasting your time. I am aware that the AFL are trying to stop that from being the case. Whilst yes, on face value, 5-10 years without finals is mediocrity, if you then won 4 flags and 5 grand finals in the next 10 years, I think you would take that. I am sure most Hawthorn supporters do.

Refer to some of my earlier points about chasing the flag if not in the top 4. You are not really in contention if you are not in the top 4, history tells us that. If you are consistently falling into the finals, which the Crows have done a lot of over the years, all the stars have to align to somehow win a flag. That doesn't happen very often. In reality, you are nowhere finishing 7th and 8th regularly. Essendon are another example of this.

The only other side that looked like winning the flag from outside the top 4 but was close to winning it was Collingwood in 2007 and Port in 2014.

Now for the 1st bolded bit. your usually not a contender unless your in the top 4. Mostly that is true. Strange how the changed the finals system in 1999 when carlton made the grand final from 6th spot. North got found out in the Prelim in 2014 as they faced a Very strong swans side that finished top that season.

As for the 2nd bolded bit. You are entitled to your opinion. I would be suprised if a lot of crows fans share your view that people didnt rate Neil Craig as a finals coach. He was unlucky in various seasons.

2005: Finished top. Loss to the saints in the QF. Smashed Port in the semis and lost Narrowly vs the eagles in Perth.

2006: Finished top 2. Beat Freo in the QF. Lost Narrowly in the Prelim to west coast in Footy, easily the best chance the crows would of won the flag or at least make the grand final.

2007: Crows finished 8th but had to beat collingwood in docklands to get that 8th spot. Lost to the hawks with a buddy franklin goal near the end of the same. As strange as it sounds, crows could of made the grand final from 8th spot that year. Had they beaten the hawks, I would of backed them to beat North at docklands in the semi finals. They would of faced Port in the prelim in which I would back the crows on current form at the time as they won both showdowns in 2007 as well.

2008: Crows were unlucky again in 2008. Crows were 4th and hoped Essendon didnt lose to the saints by 90 or more. Saints won by over 100 points. Then the crows got 5th and lost to collingwood. Had the crows got 4th spot, very likely got beaten by a Geelong side that only lost one game all season, would of won the home semi vs the saints and would of faced the hawks in the prelim,.

2009: Crows finished 5th. belted essendon in the elim final and narrowly lost to Collingwood. Would of faced Geelong in the prelim had they made it.


So potientially, The crows under Neil Craig could of made 5 prelim finals in a row if it wasnt for a couple of narrow finals defeats or other key games falling their way.


Now for your 3rd bolded bit.... Well you want the crows to be succuessful every season. Every club expects success every year. Well do you expect suns fans to expect finals each year? The AFL has put in equalization rules such as the Salary cap and Draft picks to even out the comp. They want each side to have a fair and fighting chance. I agree with your opinion on what you said. Yes 5-10 years in a row with out finals on the surface is mediocrity. If you then win 4 flags from 5 grand finals in the next 10 years, you would then take that.. Most Hawks fans would Of Course you would.


Here is another scenario.... Lets Talk about Brisbanes 2001-4 side. The path of Brisbanes 2001-3 premiership era stated all the way back in 1991 When Robert Walls got hired as their coach after His stint at Carlton from 1986-89 in which he got a flag in 1987. Walls coached Brisbane from 1991-5. These following players got their debut games under Walls: Voss, Akermanis, Craig McCrae, Nigel Lappin and justin Leppitch. All of them played in the 2001 flag.

Brisbane made finals in 1995, narrowly loses to top place carlton. Makes a prelim in 1996, 8th spot in 1997, wooden Spoon in 1998. Brisbane then hires Leigh Matthews in 1999, they make a prelim, then a semi final exit in 2000 then flags in 2001-3. Point is..... would you be happy going through what brisbane went through then get a 3 peat of flags? I know I would.

More than happy to spend 5 years out of finals, then make make finals for 3 years in a row including a prelim. miss out on finals for 2 years then have a 4-5 year finals run in getting 2-3 flags at the end of it.


As for the 4th bolded bit... you said again, if you aint in the top 4, dont bother rocking up. GWS made a grand final from 5th spot in 2019 winning 3 finals.

Not trying to pot shot you or any other crows fans on this board. you need to e realistic with expectations

 

[Freomaniac]

Again, a lot of words for the same end result.

All that matters is winning flags.

And thats part of it. Not all of it.

You gotta make it to the grand final to win the grand final. You should know that. Ironic coming from me as a freo supporter but, meh....

See had Don Pyke won that flag in 2017 for the crows, would your view on him change? Probably. He might be still coaching the crows in 2020 if he did.

I am on the freo board and there has been mixed opinions on Ross Lyon. Did he get us the Flag? No, but he gave us a shot by getting Freo to a grand final in 2013. No other freo coach has done that.


You look at Malcolm Blight. he got you a couple of flags in 1997-8. Before that he coached Geelong to 3 grand final defeats in 1989, 1992 and 1994. Had he got the cats a flag in one of those years, would his standing be any different?

 

[Jarman3]

Right, it would appear that we would agree on the first part. Correct me if that isn't that isn't the case.

Sorry, can't agree on the second part. Outside of the Bulldogs in 2016 and us in 1998, no side has looked like winning a flag from outside the top 4. We only won the flag in 1998 after a massive loss in the first week of the finals to Melbourne, and due to an anomaly in the system at the time were not bundled out in the first week.

Leaving aside the rest of the stuff you're discussing, I just want to pull you up on this point. Surviving a week 1 loss after finishing 5th wasn't an "anomaly" in the system at the time, it just was the system at the time. I've heard a few people over the years saying that we wouldn't have won that flag under the current system. But that ignores an important part of the difference between the 2 systems. Yes, under the present system, if we'd finished 5th and lost the first week, we would have been out. But you also have to remember that, under the present system, instead of playing 4th placed Melbourne at the MCG, we would have been playing 8th placed Essendon at Football Park. That's a game I would have been happy to back us to win. It also would have meant us getting that week at home instead of travelling 5 weeks in a row (Perth-Melbourne-Sydney-Melbourne-Melbourne) on the way to the flag. The week off before finals under today's system would also have worked in our favour, as teams historically haven't performed well the week after travelling to Perth, and it was probably even worse back then.

Obviously there's a lot of "what if" there, but I'd be pretty confident of us still winning that flag under today's system.

 

[BronCrow]

Leaving aside the rest of the stuff you're discussing, I just want to pull you up on this point. Surviving a week 1 loss after finishing 5th wasn't an "anomaly" in the system at the time, it just was the system at the time. I've heard a few people over the years saying that we wouldn't have won that flag under the current system. But that ignores an important part of the difference between the 2 systems. Yes, under the present system, if we'd finished 5th and lost the first week, we would have been out. But you also have to remember that, under the present system, instead of playing 4th placed Melbourne at the MCG, we would have been playing 8th placed Essendon at Football Park. That's a game I would have been happy to back us to win. It also would have meant us getting that week at home instead of travelling 5 weeks in a row (Perth-Melbourne-Sydney-Melbourne-Melbourne) on the way to the flag. The week off before finals under today's system would also have worked in our favour, as teams historically haven't performed well the week after travelling to Perth, and it was probably even worse back then.

Obviously there's a lot of "what if" there, but I'd be pretty confident of us still winning that flag under today's system.

I am aware of all you pointed out. I am comfortable with my use of the word anomaly. If any of St Kilda, West Coast or Essendon won then we would have been out. Keep in mind Sydney only beat St Kilda by 2 points in the first week of the finals in 1998. If that is not an anomaly then I don't know what is. If the current system were in use then, I am confident that we would have beaten Essendon as well. On that we agree. I am not understating our achievement in 1998, but I don't share your confidence that we would have gone on to win the flag like we did under today's system. There is a reason that only the Bulldogs and us have achieved it since they bought in an 8 team finals system.

 

[BronCrow]

The only other side that looked like winning the flag from outside the top 4 but was close to winning it was Collingwood in 2007 and Port in 2014.

Now for the 1st bolded bit. your usually not a contender unless your in the top 4. Mostly that is true. Strange how the changed the finals system in 1999 when carlton made the grand final from 6th spot. North got found out in the Prelim in 2014 as they faced a Very strong swans side that finished top that season.

As for the 2nd bolded bit. You are entitled to your opinion. I would be suprised if a lot of crows fans share your view that people didnt rate Neil Craig as a finals coach. He was unlucky in various seasons.

2005: Finished top. Loss to the saints in the QF. Smashed Port in the semis and lost Narrowly vs the eagles in Perth.

2006: Finished top 2. Beat Freo in the QF. Lost Narrowly in the Prelim to west coast in Footy, easily the best chance the crows would of won the flag or at least make the grand final.

2007: Crows finished 8th but had to beat collingwood in docklands to get that 8th spot. Lost to the hawks with a buddy franklin goal near the end of the same. As strange as it sounds, crows could of made the grand final from 8th spot that year. Had they beaten the hawks, I would of backed them to beat North at docklands in the semi finals. They would of faced Port in the prelim in which I would back the crows on current form at the time as they won both showdowns in 2007 as well.

2008: Crows were unlucky again in 2008. Crows were 4th and hoped Essendon didnt lose to the saints by 90 or more. Saints won by over 100 points. Then the crows got 5th and lost to collingwood. Had the crows got 4th spot, very likely got beaten by a Geelong side that only lost one game all season, would of won the home semi vs the saints and would of faced the hawks in the prelim,.

2009: Crows finished 5th. belted essendon in the elim final and narrowly lost to Collingwood. Would of faced Geelong in the prelim had they made it.


So potientially, The crows under Neil Craig could of made 5 prelim finals in a row if it wasnt for a couple of narrow finals defeats or other key games falling their way.


Now for your 3rd bolded bit.... Well you want the crows to be succuessful every season. Every club expects success every year. Well do you expect suns fans to expect finals each year? The AFL has put in equalization rules such as the Salary cap and Draft picks to even out the comp. They want each side to have a fair and fighting chance. I agree with your opinion on what you said. Yes 5-10 years in a row with out finals on the surface is mediocrity. If you then win 4 flags from 5 grand finals in the next 10 years, you would then take that.. Most Hawks fans would Of Course you would.


Here is another scenario.... Lets Talk about Brisbanes 2001-4 side. The path of Brisbanes 2001-3 premiership era stated all the way back in 1991 When Robert Walls got hired as their coach after His stint at Carlton from 1986-89 in which he got a flag in 1987. Walls coached Brisbane from 1991-5. These following players got their debut games under Walls: Voss, Akermanis, Craig McCrae, Nigel Lappin and justin Leppitch. All of them played in the 2001 flag.

Brisbane made finals in 1995, narrowly loses to top place carlton. Makes a prelim in 1996, 8th spot in 1997, wooden Spoon in 1998. Brisbane then hires Leigh Matthews in 1999, they make a prelim, then a semi final exit in 2000 then flags in 2001-3. Point is..... would you be happy going through what brisbane went through then get a 3 peat of flags? I know I would.

More than happy to spend 5 years out of finals, then make make finals for 3 years in a row including a prelim. miss out on finals for 2 years then have a 4-5 year finals run in getting 2-3 flags at the end of it.


As for the 4th bolded bit... you said again, if you aint in the top 4, dont bother rocking up. GWS made a grand final from 5th spot in 2019 winning 3 finals.

Not trying to pot shot you or any other crows fans on this board. you need to e realistic with expectations

Right, where to start.

You are aware in 1999 Carlton got thrashed by 83 points in the first week of the finals by the Lions side you mention later in your post, only to be gifted a home final the following week against West Coast, who had beaten the Western Bulldogs in Melbourne the previous week. I am not so confident that Carlton win that game if it is played at Subiaco, where it should have been played instead of the MCG.

As for you being surprised if Crows supporters don't rate Neil Craig as a coach, I can assure you you would be very surprised. The apricot slice set loved Craig, but those under 60 weren't as affectionate in their feelings towards him.

2005 Lost to an undermanned Saints side at home after winning the minor premiership. A game we should have won. No bad luck.

2006 Threw away a 4-5 goal in the 3rd term at home to lose to West Coast in the Prelim. Not bad luck, bad management. Also got jumped in the first half of the QF final before recovering.

2007 Had to beat Collingwood in the final game of the year to sneak in to the 8. Buddy kicked 7.5 and 3 out on the full. He kicks straight, it is not close. Craig continues to play Kris Massie on him, despite being killed and never being the best match up in one of the most inept pieces of coaching you will see.

2008 I will grant that we were possibly unlucky to finish 5th instead of 4th. We then went on to be beaten at home by Collingwood by 5 goals, who themselves were beaten by a similar margin themselves by St Kilda the following week. That is not bad luck, that is just bad.

2009 Thrashed an Essendon side who lost more games than they won and yet still made the 8. Then had a 5 goal lead against Collingwood in the second term, only for Craig to go all defensive and let Collingwood back in the game. Though the free kick to Jack Anthony was unlucky, as Paul Medhurst shoved Andy Otten in the back in the same contest. Collingwood should never have been let back in.

No killer instinct, which sums up Craig as a coach.

Are you seriously comparing our club to a club that nobody cares about. I watched us up there against them last year. Was almost all Crows supporters. Do not compare our club to them.

Please don't compare Neil Craig to Leigh Matthews as coach. Leigh is called lethal for a reason, something you would never say about Craig.

 

[Matman23]

It’s not looking any better yet.

I’m hoping that Nicks put off the senior assistant role because he has someone in mind. Hopefully, along with a couple others.

 

[Freomaniac]

Right, where to start.

You are aware in 1999 Carlton got thrashed by 83 points in the first week of the finals by the Lions side you mention later in your post, only to be gifted a home final the following week against West Coast, who had beaten the Western Bulldogs in Melbourne the previous week. I am not so confident that Carlton win that game if it is played at Subiaco, where it should have been played instead of the MCG.

As for you being surprised if Crows supporters don't rate Neil Craig as a coach, I can assure you you would be very surprised. The apricot slice set loved Craig, but those under 60 weren't as affectionate in their feelings towards him.

2005 Lost to an undermanned Saints side at home after winning the minor premiership. A game we should have won. No bad luck.

2006 Threw away a 4-5 goal in the 3rd term at home to lose to West Coast in the Prelim. Not bad luck, bad management. Also got jumped in the first half of the QF final before recovering.

2007 Had to beat Collingwood in the final game of the year to sneak in to the 8. Buddy kicked 7.5 and 3 out on the full. He kicks straight, it is not close. Craig continues to play Kris Massie on him, despite being killed and never being the best match up in one of the most inept pieces of coaching you will see.

2008 I will grant that we were possibly unlucky to finish 5th instead of 4th. We then went on to be beaten at home by Collingwood by 5 goals, who themselves were beaten by a similar margin themselves by St Kilda the following week. That is not bad luck, that is just bad.

2009 Thrashed an Essendon side who lost more games than they won and yet still made the 8. Then had a 5 goal lead against Collingwood in the second term, only for Craig to go all defensive and let Collingwood back in the game. Though the free kick to Jack Anthony was unlucky, as Paul Medhurst shoved Andy Otten in the back in the same contest. Collingwood should never have been let back in.

No killer instinct, which sums up Craig as a coach.

Are you seriously comparing our club to a club that nobody cares about. I watched us up there against them last year. Was almost all Crows supporters. Do not compare our club to them.

Please don't compare Neil Craig to Leigh Matthews as coach. Leigh is called lethal for a reason, something you would never say about Craig.

Yes I am aware carlton got belted by 83 points. And yes West coast was screwed again in the MCG rules, Just like the crows were in 2002 vs the demons. I agree, Dead certain the Eagles would of belted carlton in Subiaco.


Well I am suprised with many people not rating Neil Craig as Coach. Sure the over 50 liked him, Especially the Norwood, Sturt and North fans in the SANFL as he played in all 3 of those clubs.

2005: Yeah you lost to an undermanned Saints side. Had you won, very likely your team would of faced Swans in the prelim.

2006: That prelim. Crows lead 6.5.41 to eagles 2.7.19 at half time. Crows still lead 8.8.56 to eagles 6.12.48 at 3 quarter time. Then lost 11.19.85 to 11.9.75. Not bad luck but bad management. Bad Management played a certain part. Bad luck came into this as Trent Hentschell got injured a couple of weeks before the 2006 finals series. He wasnt a star. I might be drawing a long bow, but I think he could of been the difference in that game. Certainly capable of kicking 2-4 goals in a game.

2007: Yeah I heard about this. Kris Massie on Buddy Franklin was a horrible coaching tactic. I would of thrown ken McGregor on Buddy Franklin.

2008: So you agreed the Crows were screwed out of 4th spot. Again.... Had crows got 4th, I still think that they would of made the prelim, losing to the cats in the QF, Beat the saints at home in the Semis and lost the prelim again.

2009: Yep I remembered that 2009 semi final vs Collingwood. Crows lead 7.7 49 to collingwoods 3.5.23 at half time. Then collingwood fought back and kicked 6 goals and 2 behinds to crows 2 behinds to lead 9.7.63 to crows 7.9.53. Now you can blame Neil Craig for going defensive in the 3rd quarter. I also blame Neil Craig for selection policy. In 2009, Taylor walker kicks 23 goals and 19 behinds from the 1st 13 games. Walker then plays one more game vs Collingwood in round 19 and doesnt play again that season. I dont know why Walker was out of favour in the 2nd half of the 2009 season because he wasnt injured. Kurt tippett kicked 55 goals in that season and kicked 4 in that Semi final vs Collingwood.


You cant say he is a horrible coach like Mark Neeld.

In 2005-6, he was unlucky that he didnt have a gun KPF to lead that forward line. I still say a Fully fit trent hentchell would of got you over the line to a flag in 2006.

2007-2009, Hentchel was injured and was eventually phased out by Kurt tippet and Taylor walker.


The neil craig era has fascinated me post 2000. I dont know why though. For some reason he has stood out compared to Gary Ayres (2000-2004), Brenton Sanderson (2012-14) and Don Pyke (2016-19).

 

[Freomaniac]

I’m hoping that Nicks put off the senior assistant role because he has someone in mind. Hopefully, along with a couple others.

do you have anyone in mind?

 

[BronCrow]

Yes I am aware carlton got belted by 83 points. And yes West coast was screwed again in the MCG rules, Just like the crows were in 2002 vs the demons. I agree, Dead certain the Eagles would of belted carlton in Subiaco.


Well I am suprised with many people not rating Neil Craig as Coach. Sure the over 50 liked him, Especially the Norwood, Sturt and North fans in the SANFL as he played in all 3 of those clubs.

2005: Yeah you lost to an undermanned Saints side. Had you won, very likely your team would of faced Swans in the prelim.

2006: That prelim. Crows lead 6.5.41 to eagles 2.7.19 at half time. Crows still lead 8.8.56 to eagles 6.12.48 at 3 quarter time. Then lost 11.19.85 to 11.9.75. Not bad luck but bad management. Bad Management played a certain part. Bad luck came into this as Trent Hentschell got injured a couple of weeks before the 2006 finals series. He wasnt a star. I might be drawing a long bow, but I think he could of been the difference in that game. Certainly capable of kicking 2-4 goals in a game.

2007: Yeah I heard about this. Kris Massie on Buddy Franklin was a horrible coaching tactic. I would of thrown ken McGregor on Buddy Franklin.

2008: So you agreed the Crows were screwed out of 4th spot. Again.... Had crows got 4th, I still think that they would of made the prelim, losing to the cats in the QF, Beat the saints at home in the Semis and lost the prelim again.

2009: Yep I remembered that 2009 semi final vs Collingwood. Crows lead 7.7 49 to collingwoods 3.5.23 at half time. Then collingwood fought back and kicked 6 goals and 2 behinds to crows 2 behinds to lead 9.7.63 to crows 7.9.53. Now you can blame Neil Craig for going defensive in the 3rd quarter. I also blame Neil Craig for selection policy. In 2009, Taylor walker kicks 23 goals and 19 behinds from the 1st 13 games. Walker then plays one more game vs Collingwood in round 19 and doesnt play again that season. I dont know why Walker was out of favour in the 2nd half of the 2009 season because he wasnt injured. Kurt tippett kicked 55 goals in that season and kicked 4 in that Semi final vs Collingwood.


You cant say he is a horrible coach like Mark Neeld.

In 2005-6, he was unlucky that he didnt have a gun KPF to lead that forward line. I still say a Fully fit trent hentchell would of got you over the line to a flag in 2006.

2007-2009, Hentchel was injured and was eventually phased out by Kurt tippet and Taylor walker.


The neil craig era has fascinated me post 2000. I dont know why though. For some reason he has stood out compared to Gary Ayres (2000-2004), Brenton Sanderson (2012-14) and Don Pyke (2016-19).

I said I don't rate Craig as a coach. I never said he was on the same level as Mark Neeld. You are attempting to put words in my mouth.

You may have a point about Trent Hentschel. Was one of the worst injuries you would see. Never really recovered after that. Have heard it said that he looked like he had been in a motor vehicle accident. The only injury I have seen in sport would that was as bad or worse would Jharal Yow Yeh for the Brisbane Broncos in the NRL in the about 2011-12. Anyway, back on track, he was important to our set-up. He wasn't, so there is no point looking back.

I have stated my position about Craig's finals record over those 5 years, and I stand by it.

As for 2009, Walker was dropped by Craig because Craig wanted to go back to the SANFL and work on his defensive game, despite being a match winner. Same thing happened in 2010. In similar circumstances now, a lot of players would have demanded a trade. Another reason Craig comes in for some criticism. Was easy to see that Walker was going to be a gun from a young age. The year before he won a final for Norwood against Port off of his own boot in a game Port were fancied to win.

As for Craig being compared to those other coaches you mentioned, you realise Pyke was an assistant under Craig in 2005 and 2006, and was considered as much the reason as Craig as to why we did so well. In my opinion, Pyke was the fall guy for many other problems at the club in 2018-19. Most of those problems, mainly the board, still exist.

 

[BronCrow]

I’m hoping that Nicks put off the senior assistant role because he has someone in mind. Hopefully, along with a couple others.

The cynic in me would suggest that the board took so long to appoint Nicks that there were no decent senior assistants to get, so didn't appoint one at all.

 

[Freomaniac]

I said I don't rate Craig as a coach. I never said he was on the same level as Mark Neeld. You are attempting to put words in my mouth.

You may have a point about Trent Hentschel. Was one of the worst injuries you would see. Never really recovered after that. Have heard it said that he looked like he had been in a motor vehicle accident. The only injury I have seen in sport would that was as bad or worse would Jharal Yow Yeh for the Brisbane Broncos in the NRL in the about 2011-12. Anyway, back on track, he was important to our set-up. He wasn't, so there is no point looking back.

I have stated my position about Craig's finals record over those 5 years, and I stand by it.

As for 2009, Walker was dropped by Craig because Craig wanted to go back to the SANFL and work on his defensive game, despite being a match winner. Same thing happened in 2010. In similar circumstances now, a lot of players would have demanded a trade. Another reason Craig comes in for some criticism. Was easy to see that Walker was going to be a gun from a young age. The year before he won a final for Norwood against Port off of his own boot in a game Port were fancied to win.

As for Craig being compared to those other coaches you mentioned, you realise Pyke was an assistant under Craig in 2005 and 2006, and was considered as much the reason as Craig as to why we did so well. In my opinion, Pyke was the fall guy for many other problems at the club in 2018-19. Most of those problems, mainly the board, still exist.

as for the 1st bolded bit, Yeah I saw that injury too. It was bad to the point he didnt play for the crows in the 2007 and 2008 seasons. it was as horrific as Nathan Browns leg injury.


As for the 2nd bolded bit.... Again, 23 goals from 14 games is good for a 2nd year player, regardless of defensive pressure or lack there of. He also kicked 35 goals from 18 games in 2010. You said Taylor walker won a final off his own boot with Norwood against Port, was that the 2008 elim final? There were also rumors GWS wanted Taylor walker at the end of 2011 as well.

As for the 3rd Bolded bit... I didnt know Don Pyke was an assistant coach under neil craig. I knew that Neil Craig was either an Assistant coach or fitness coach for the crows in the 1997-8 flag years.

 

[skam85]

I’m hoping that Nicks put off the senior assistant role because he has someone in mind. Hopefully, along with a couple others.

The sad irony is there may be plenty available now and more willing to move to SA once this is all over.

 

[Freomaniac]

Couldn't have summarised the issues better myself.

My concern is that those in the club at all levels are more concerned with locking down no change to protect themselves, rather than making the necessary changes we need to move forward.

2017 may be 2 years ago, but in footy terms in may as well be a decade ago.

We badly need a change agent.

bump.....

I know 2 years is a long time in footy.

If the crows beat gws today that means they are in the 8.

I have spoken about the crows rebuild in other threads

 

[MarcusP2]

bump.....

I know 2 years is a long time in footy.

If the crows nest gws today that means they are in the 8.

I have spoken about the crows rebuild in other threads

And if they get blasted off the park?

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[FR0GGY]

bump.....

I know 2 years is a long time in footy.

If the crows nest gws today that means they are in the 8.

I have spoken about the crows rebuild in other threads

Gone a little early there mate.

 

[killtaker1993]

We're playing like Port today, absolutely insipid. Get a shrink in there to get the lads' heads together, they clearly thought they had it won

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

bump.....

I know 2 years is a long time in footy.

If the crows beat gws today that means they are in the 8.

I have spoken about the crows rebuild in other threads

You jinxed us!

This is the worst game of footy I have had to watch live for some time.

Reality check we are still a fair way off finals.