Who's closer to their next premiership: Carlton or Freo?

[blueboyz95]

These threads are always so stupid. Did anyone seriously think Richmond would go from 13th to potentially 3 flags in 5 years? Hell no.

This rubbish just leads to opposition supporters overrating their players whilst underrating the other team's list.

Freo and Carlton both have young talent out the wazoo. Freo's young mids are ahead of Carlton, but Carlton's key stocks are ahead of Freo.

Longmuir did a great job with Freo this year, whereas Teague underperfomed in the eyes of some. Although a goal here and there, and Carlton make finals in 2020.

Footy is fickle and unpredictable. Both teams are as close as each other because both start at 0 wins/0 losses at Round 1 2021.

 

[MadMundy]

Mate you can't talk up a C-grade tagger like Conca but then talk down guys like Newman and Williamson for us, get a grip, every club has a decent battler that does their role.

I'd say Cripps, Docherty, Weitering, Walsh and Martin are A-graders at Carlton.

With McKay and Curnow the potential to get to that level next year. Williams is B-grade imo.

Mate I wasn't the one who talked about Williamson and Newman, I think they're both good, but more touching upon the claim that Conca and Aish aren't best 22 worthy, when their form this year suggests otherwise. Agree to disagree though mate.

 

[Joao]

good grief mate aish has been turfed by 2 clubs for 2nd rounders and future third rounders. he averaged 16 touches this year ffs, he is far from stellar nor is he worth mentioning in a thread where you're trying to talk up your best 22.

Yeah heard Aish is flat that he can't keep up with noted B-Grader Williamson's 10.5 disposals per game.

 

[eastfreo75]

Hill and Hughes? I rest my case.

They are not best 22 player next year.

 

[chunkylover53]

Yeah heard Aish is flat that he can't keep up with noted B-Grader Williamson's 10.5 disposals per game.

eh Williamson isn't a bad player. He had serious back issues + crohns disease, this year was his first real run at it and he was decent enough. He's only 21 and still fairly underdeveloped. With Aish at his 3rd club and being 4 years older I'd hope he's streets ahead of Williamson.

Has a good left boot (takes our kick ins).

No reason he can't become a B-grader. Who said he was now?

 

[raffrox]

eh Williamson isn't a bad player. He had serious back issues + crohns disease, this year was his first real run at it and he was decent enough. He's only 21 and still fairly underdeveloped. With Aish at his 3rd club and being 4 years older I'd hope he's streets ahead of Williamson.

Has a good left boot (takes our kick ins).

No reason he can't become a B-grader.

So no reason why eventually he eventually can't become as good as Aish?

It's super weird that Blues supporters are looking to cite Aish as proof of anything negative about Freo. He's been super solid and would be in the first 5 or 6 picked by JLo each week.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Stoked to be at the same level as the blues at the moment.
Started build a year later and loss 2 elite bnf winners in the right age profile In hill and Neale which puts us back another year.
Don’t know what the future holds but it’s most excited I’ve been in anchors history about the list for the future.
I think JLo will add a lot more attacking intent once our backline leaves the injury list.

 

[chunkylover53]

So no reason why eventually he eventually can't become as good as Aish?

It's super weird that Blues supporters are looking to cite Aish as proof of anything negative about Freo. He's been super solid and would be in the first 5 or 6 picked by JLo each week.

I'll be surprised if he doesn't become a better player than Aish.

What is with Freo supporters potting a middle of the road's bottom 6 players and claiming they wouldn't get a gig at their powerhouse of a club? Newman wouldn't get a game? Spare me. You didn't watch him in 2019 clearly. Williamson would also be a good prospect at most clubs.

I can't be bothered scrolling through 12 pages of pissing contests, but what's the general reasoning behind us not improving in 2021?

Given the majority of our lists age profile, you'd think it's expected our players progress.

Cripps - had a down year this year (yet we still improved despite our "reliance" on him)
Dochety - came off 2 ACL's, should improve
Walsh - he's 20, should improve
Weitering - He's 22, should improve
McKay - If you don't rate this bloke then you haven't watched enough footy the past 20 years. He's only 22.
Curnow - His sheer presence will free up McKay at the very least
Williams - Will be a good get.

Then guys like Setterfield, De Koning and Williamson who are solidified best 22 with age on their side.

Then underperforming guys like SPS, Dow, Cuningham, O'Brien, McGovern - there's no reason they can't increase their output, not like they are washed up and old.

So what is it? Is it the retirement of Simpson and Kreuzer? Are our players actually going to get worse in their prime years? Are those 7 main players I listed actually no good? Someone lay it out to me.

 

[chunkylover53]

So let me get this straight

Carlton finished above Freo, and have beaten them the past two years, whilst this year they were hubbing around with zero games on their home ground. While Freo spent what.. 10 weeks in their home state playing on their home deck? But Freo are clearly the superior side? So home ground advantages don't exist anymore?

Bizarre.

 

[Vikingnz]

So let me get this straight

Freo are clearly the superior side?

Yeah that about sums it up.

 

[RonnieRaven]

So let me get this straight

Carlton finished above Freo, and have beaten them the past two years, whilst this year they were hubbing around with zero games on their home ground. While Freo spent what.. 10 weeks in their home state playing on their home deck? But Freo are clearly the superior side? So home ground advantages don't exist anymore?

Bizarre.

if you remove doc weiters from your back line for a whole season and Jones for 90% then your record would look more glowing.

 

[chunkylover53]

if you remove doc weiters from your back line for a whole season and Jones for 90% then your record would look more glowing.

Gee whiz I don't recall us ever getting any slack for our woeful injuries the past few years. Nor any club for that matter. In fact half our team was out last year and we still managed to beat you on your deck.

Our best forward was out for the year and our best midfielder was clearly playing injured. Docherty was also coming off 2 ACL's, hardly operating at 100%.

You got 9 home games, that's a big win, no matter how many 'injuries' you had.

 

[MrWoollie]

Cripps is doing it alone and you can see his shoulders are in a pretty bad shape.

I can’t see how Cripps getting smashed every week is good long term.

Cripps needs help.

Very true. He played his first full season (21 games) as a 20 year old. Playing the role of the inside mid, taking the hits from the seasoned guys week in, week out.
He probably has one of the most beaten up bodies in the AFL, and he's only 25. It's a bit more than his shoulders as well. If I remember, he missed a chunk with a back injury.

I love him as a player but I'm not sure I'd want to recruit him now. It'd be a bit like playing Humpty Dumpty after the repair job. Unlikely to end well.

There is an argument that because of their need (and his willingness to put his body on the line) Carlton have mis-managed him somewhat. A more gentle introduction to the inside mid role, better management of injuries and recovery and re-introduction etc.

 

[chunkylover53]

A lot of top line players especially outside of the contest.

Cripps is doing it alone and you can see his shoulders are in a pretty bad shape.

Can Kemp or Dow help ? They need to because I can’t see how Cripps getting smashed every week is good long term.

Williams is a good addition and maybe Saad will be too. They are all on the outside.

Cripps needs help.

Cripps had his worst season to date and we still improved. Of course it's not good long term but he didn't "do it alone" this year and we managed fine.

I love him as a player but I'm not sure I'd want to recruit him now.

omfg hahahhahaha. yeah bro, and fyfe is getting over the hill too. I wouldn't want him.

 

[raffrox]

Cripps had his worst season to date and we still improved. Of course it's not good long term but he didn't "do it alone" this year and we managed fine.

You managed fine?

Anyone would think your mob won the flag this year.

It's a pretty well know that Cripps needs some help on the inside.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Gee whiz I don't recall us ever getting any slack for our woeful injuries the past few years. Nor any club for that matter. In fact half our team was out last year and we still managed to beat you on your deck.

Our best forward was out for the year and our best midfielder was clearly playing injured. Docherty was also coming off 2 ACL's, hardly operating at 100%.

You got 9 home games, that's a big win, no matter how many 'injuries' you had.

You asked for something I gave you something.
I referenced your players so you could understand my point being a non freo supporter.
I’m really happy where freo is at and I won’t share my opinion of the blues because it won’t help anyone.
Who did we play for the 9th home game?

 

[Purple_Turtle]

What is with Freo supporters potting a middle of the road's bottom 6 players and claiming they wouldn't get a gig at their powerhouse of a club? Newman wouldn't get a game? Spare me. You didn't watch him in 2019 clearly. Williamson would also be a good prospect at most clubs.

I'm not going to say they're bad players, but I genuinely would doubt they play for Freo simply because our backline is where our depth is.

I think our preferred backline next year will be something along the lines of Pearce, Hamling, Logue, Ryan, Young, Wilson and Hughes.

Newman is a rebounding defender, right? He's definitely not getting in ahead of All-Australian Luke Ryan, and Young is a good enough prospect that I'd keep him in the 22 so he quickly acclimatise to AFL level (which he was before being injured.) Doubt Newman replaces Wilson either.

 

[MrWoollie]

omfg hahahhahaha. yeah bro, and fyfe is getting over the hill too. I wouldn't want him.

Yeah, good selective, take part of the message reading. And making something of it that wasn't there.

Is he a good player - yes.
Would I want him in my team - yes.
Would I want to recruit him, paying the likely asking price of two top 10 picks and a salary of $1Mill+ for 7+ years - No.

Too many eggs in one basket, for too long at too high a price, with too much risk attached. This would be a reverse Judd deal, with added injury risk. Sure, Judd also had shoulder injuries, but he wasn't playing the same level of physicality Cripps does. Good chance of ending up in a Sydney/Franklin situation.

 

[Leeda]

These threads are always so stupid. Did anyone seriously think Richmond would go from 13th to potentially 3 flags in 5 years? Hell no.

This rubbish just leads to opposition supporters overrating their players whilst underrating the other team's list.

Freo and Carlton both have young talent out the wazoo. Freo's young mids are ahead of Carlton, but Carlton's key stocks are ahead of Freo.

Longmuir did a great job with Freo this year, whereas Teague underperfomed in the eyes of some. Although a goal here and there, and Carlton make finals in 2020.

Footy is fickle and unpredictable. Both teams are as close as each other because both start at 0 wins/0 losses at Round 1 2021.

and we lost a lot of games we could have won as well... feel your pain

 

[RudyBlue]

Yeah that about sums it up.

I, for one, welcome our new docker overlords

 

[Freomaniac]

These things always skewed toward whichever team is perceived to have finished the season in better form. Fremantle didn't even finish that brilliantly, and their biggest scalps for the year finished 6th and 8th. They also suffered several 5-6 goal losses throughout the year and didn't get close to the better sides.

They seemed to get some media love after losing to Carlton, yet their form line from there was three wins over Sydney, Melbourne and North, and three big losses to GWS, Richmond and Western Bulldogs.

None of this is to suggest that Carlton is any better, but it's ridiculous the way these things get spun.

you must have not read the earlier pages.

Freos 3 best tall defenders

Alex Pearce 0 games
Joel Hamling: 0 Games
Griffin Logue 4 games

Imagine if Carlton didnt have their 2 best tall defenders not play a game this season?

I dont care if Freo had a few 5-6 goal defeats. Had they lost by 80-100 points regularly like they did in 2017, I would be worried

As far as the big loss to Richmond, it was only 27 points. the score line was Tigers 4.4.28 to freos 3.4.22 at 3 quarter time

 

[btdg]

you must have not read the earlier pages.

Freos 3 best tall defenders

Alex Pearce 0 games
Joel Hamling: 0 Games
Griffin Logue 4 games

Imagine if Carlton didnt have their 2 best tall defenders not play a game this season?

I dont care if Freo had a few 5-6 goal defeats. Had they lost by 80-100 points regularly like they did in 2017, I would be worried

As far as the big loss to Richmond, it was only 27 points. the score line was Tigers 4.4.28 to freos 3.4.22 at 3 quarter time

We had our ruckman, CHF and 3rd tall defender play zero games combined?

Every team gets injuries and Freo hardly struggled to defend.

I guess the point is you can’t just say you had injuries this year therefore everything is peachy and it will be better next year. You will have injuries again (unless you have Eichmond 2017 or Brisbane 2019 luck), as will Carlton, and every other team

 

[tonygeeks]

We had our ruckman, CHF and 3rd tall defender play zero games combined?

Every team gets injuries and Freo hardly struggled to defend.

I guess the point is you can’t just say you had injuries this year therefore everything is peachy and it will be better next year. You will have injuries again (unless you have Eichmond 2017 or Brisbane 2019 luck), as will Carlton, and every other team

Getting a lot of injuries in 1 part of the ground like we did this year would have sunk us horribly in the last few years so it was heartening that we didn’t fall in a heap and it was pretty impressive how the coach recognised the dangers and changed our style of play so our inexperienced backline didn’t get exposed

I think it’s fair enough to have a bit of confidence after the year we had but I wouldn’t put us ahead of you blokes at all , anyone who is making big statements is just s**t stirring


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[Freomaniac]

So let me get this straight

Carlton finished above Freo, and have beaten them the past two years, whilst this year they were hubbing around with zero games on their home ground. While Freo spent what.. 10 weeks in their home state playing on their home deck? But Freo are clearly the superior side? So home ground advantages don't exist anymore?

Bizarre.

Freo were the only side , well the only non Vic club not to play a game in their home state in their 1st 6 games of the season. Freo then had 7 home state games in a row then 4 away or 4 neutral games to end the season against 4 Vic clubs in tigers, demon's, north and dogs. To be honest I can predict tomorrow, let alone next season fore Freo and the blues.


Saying that, I don't know how long this corona virus will last.

I don't know if the AFL season will be 17 games or 20 games or 22 games or 24 games or 26 games next season.

 

[chunkylover53]

You managed fine?

Anyone would think your mob won the flag this year.

It's a pretty well know that Cripps needs some help on the inside.

no they wouldn't. what exactly did you expect from Carlton this year? we were tipped to go from bottom 4 to middle of the road, which is what we did.

we had 7 wins from 5 less games, a clear improvement on last year. Not to mention last year all our wins came on the back of our older heads + Cripps, this hasn't been the case at all this year. So have we underachieved in 2020? What's your perception?