Whose game would you change?

[FloreatPica17]

After the parties die down, whose off-season program would you like to get your hands into?


6. Goldsack - love to see him work on offensive game to spend time as a defensive forward. Pressure and one-percenters is first rate and gets footy. Love to see him become another potential target and goalkicker at half-forward. His lateral movement and balance is excellent and I reckon a couple of sessions with Didak could have him setting up Jack in front of goal.

31. Dawes - sprint and power training. Speed 'can be taught' with good technique. From all reports he has a big tank, but I'd focus more on power in his legs and core. He could be that power-type athlete that Rocca was at times during his prime. Over those first 5 he looks too sluggish for AFL. With Cloke/Anthony/Rusling, we need somone to really jump at the packs.

33. Dicky - Maccas diet, tell him to stay away from the jumping beans.

43. Barham - I think the reason he looks like he's running in circles is simply because he gets knocked off the ball too easily. He needs the size and strength to allow him to penetrate the pack in contested situation. Stay away from running half-back position (for his development). He needs to focus on making the best decisions forward of the ball, not always carry the ball just because he's super quick. I like him as a tagger because of his pressure, but has big potential to go other way too.

 

[mongrel_punt]

Thomas - Size and endurance

 

[sunnyTEE]

Thomas - Size and endurance

Endurance is not an issue, size is a minor one.

I would however like to see him given more ownership of his game, teammates work through him, utilize his pace and flare more. More possessions through the middle and forward of halfway. This year should have set up his defensive side beautifully, it's now time to sculpt the whole thing together.

 

[mattys123]

Nice idea this thread, I'll have a crack at a few;

6. Tyson Goldsack; He showed at times this year he has pace, skill and an attacking flair that we lack, especially in the midfield/wing region. Work him hard in the pre season, get his endurance up and Goldsack could a very important outside midfielder next year.

9. Jack Anthony; Jack has to get a pure direction over the pre season, either become a leading forward ala Matthew Llyod, or put on some muscle and become a bustling, wrestling forward. I say make Jack a fast leading forward, the dynamic needed in today's football.

12. Shannon Cox; Three words sum up his pre season plan, RUN, RUN, RUN. He looked overweight all of this year, time to loosed the "puppy fat" and have a serious crack at AFL football.

20. Ben Reid; Our quarterback, the first one we have had since Clement. Place him behind the ball all summer, improving his kicking and awareness to spot a target even more.

22. Steele Sidebottom; He has the endurance, he has the brain, he has the skills, now all he needs to learn is how to become that "pure inside midfielder" we so desperately need. Have a football in his hands all summer, make him work hard inside packs at training, and make his body tough enough to survive a whole season of inside midfield work. This kid could be the difference next year, especially with Jolly.

25. Josh Fraser; Teach him how to play as a forward, all summer, he doesn't need/can't learn how to be a ruck now, improve his forward work and his upper body strength. He has to play forward or he has a very short life expectancy as an AFL footballer now.

I see Sidebottom and Reid as the 2 young players to make a real mark next year, one as our inside midfielder, one as our CHB playing a Bock crossed with Hodge role.

The rest of the "skinny" players who were belted physically in the finals need to hit the weights, we need improve our physical presence as a team, if we are to take the next step.

 

[unplugged]

Yep, Shannon Cox. Lose 15kg.

 

[Jonno_]

1. Alan Didak - Some sort of courage and commitment training. Leon copped flack for not performing in the finals and Didak seems to have escaped some criticism. There was one point in the Geelong game, where I think Milburn or Mackie was running down the wing, and Didak just gave up chase, and let him go. To me, that was the most disappointing moment in the finals.

2. Cameron Wood - Also weights and courage - to me he had a chance to impose himself as our number 1 ruckman this year, and didn't do so because of his softness around the contests. I hope we don't end up with another Josh Fraser - plenty of promise, but not much return.

3. Jarryd Blair - Plenty of milk. Need to get some calcium into those bones! Might get a bit of height.

4. Sharrod Wellingham - Kicking practice.

Probably a bit too critical with the first two, but to me, and it seems like to no one else, they were some of the most disappointing things this year.

 

[lukey69]

sidebottom- chuck on 5 kgs

beams -chuck on 5 kgs

barham chuck on 5 kgs

dick chuck on 10 kgs

goldsack put on 5kgs

cox to loose 10 kgs

 

[Pie eyed]

Need some all round the ground "mongrel" which I'm sure will come.

Big pre-season on the weights for most.

All forwards to get extensive goal kicking practice.

 

[Just Kick It]

Interesting to see several people comment on Goldsack. Is that because he's front and centre in our minds after his name was thrown up as a possible trade for Ball, or because people actually believe that he can take his game to the next level.

I think some time in the weights room is much needed for a lot of guys, although players like d*ck has that frame like Rob Murphy that just won't add too much mass I feel.

 

[Forgotten Legend]

Like Pie Eyed said, I think Collingwoods forward and midfield will need some extensive goal kicking training. I think under the crunch, Collingwood struggled to get those crucial goals which mean the difference between winning and losing.

Weights also another issue which needs to be addressed. In the Finals, teams like Geelong were able to trample over Collingwood because of the weight ratio they had to us. I think most players need to gain a few kgs to be with a better chance of winning against those large Cats and other muscle tank-like teams.

Separately, I think a few other players need a little more work. In no particular order.

Leon Davis - Love how he plays the game and had an excellent season, however he did drop in the Finals which did disappoint. He was under overwhelming pressure by the Club and at the crucial point in the season he didn't give his best. More commitment training is enough, the talents there already.

Alan Didak - Like Davis, I think he had a great season, but did drop par when in the Finals. He needs to work on commitment to the ball and following through.

Dale Thomas - He also had a good season and really lifted in the Finals when many of the senior players dropped their game. He gives the Collingwood midfield the motion and pace they need, and they should work on tactics to better add Dale into the fray.

John Anthony - He's a accurate forward which can be deadly when needed. Like mattys123 has already stated, he should become a fast leading forward which is one of the key factors missing in Collingwoods forward line.

Josh Fraser - Intensive training in Forward as his years as Collingwoods main ruckman has come to an end. With Jolly now in Black and White and Wood a upcoming ruckman for future use, I think Fraser has to adapt to a new role fast.

I wont really say anymore since most have been already stated, like Sidebottom and Goldsack.

I think if the coaching staff get it right in pre-season training we will see a team better then last year, capable of coping with some of tougher challenges that we have lost in the past. We have some serious talent in ranks and if we can harnest them in the correct way, have a great chance for the flag in 2010.

~FL

 

[StillWaiting5689]

I'd take the midfield and try and teach them to go in harder and put their head over the ball more often. Every player should know that when it is their turn to go they go, whether they are an outside or an inside midfielder. I've never understood why some players are hesitant to go in and get the hard ball because you don't have to be good (it helps though once you get the ball) to put your head down and take some knocks and get the contested footy.
If every player went in hard when he had to then there wouldn't be a need for a pure inside mid like Ball. If you look at Geelongs mids they can all play inside and outside and over the last few seasons the saints have pushed for this aswell really focusing on developing their inside mids outside game and their outside mids inside game. If you have midfielders that can do both these things then it makes the midfield less predictable and it becomes a lot harder to shut down.

 

[Thommo 42]

Cox to lose 20kg with 10 going to Dick, 5 going to Sidebottom and 5 going to Anthony.

If he wants to lose 25 and flick 5 Reids way as well, thats fine!

 

[Ferga18]

Like Pie Eyed said, I think Collingwoods forward and midfield will need some extensive goal kicking training. I think under the crunch, Collingwood struggled to get those crucial goals which mean the difference between winning and losing.

Weights also another issue which needs to be addressed. In the Finals, teams like Geelong were able to trample over Collingwood because of the weight ratio they had to us. I think most players need to gain a few kgs to be with a better chance of winning against those large Cats and other muscle tank-like teams.

Separately, I think a few other players need a little more work. In no particular order.

Leon Davis - Love how he plays the game and had an excellent season, however he did drop in the Finals which did disappoint. He was under overwhelming pressure by the Club and at the crucial point in the season he didn't give his best. More commitment training is enough, the talents there already.

Alan Didak - Like Davis, I think he had a great season, but did drop par when in the Finals. He needs to work on commitment to the ball and following through.

Dale Thomas - He also had a good season and really lifted in the Finals when many of the senior players dropped their game. He gives the Collingwood midfield the motion and pace they need, and they should work on tactics to better add Dale into the fray.

John Anthony - He's a accurate forward which can be deadly when needed. Like mattys123 has already stated, he should become a fast leading forward which is one of the key factors missing in Collingwoods forward line.

Josh Fraser - Intensive training in Forward as his years as Collingwoods main ruckman has come to an end. With Jolly now in Black and White and Wood a upcoming ruckman for future use, I think Fraser has to adapt to a new role fast.

I wont really say anymore since most have been already stated, like Sidebottom and Goldsack.

I think if the coaching staff get it right in pre-season training we will see a team better then last year, capable of coping with some of tougher challenges that we have lost in the past. We have some serious talent in ranks and if we can harnest them in the correct way, have a great chance for the flag in 2010.

~FL

Leon is possibly the hardest trainer at Collingwood. Nathan Buckley rates him the hardest trainer he has played with. Which is a big compliment considering Bucks is the hardest trainer I have seen.

He needs to realise if your not getting the footy in the forward line, Go and get the bloody thing yourself!! It wont just come to you in finals, you need to grow that extra leg. He will bounce back next year in finals!!

 

[Forgotten Legend]

Leon is possibly the hardest trainer at Collingwood. Nathan Buckley rates him the hardest trainer he has played with. Which is a big compliment considering Bucks is the hardest trainer I have seen.

He needs to realise if your not getting the footy in the forward line, Go and get the bloody thing yourself!! It wont just come to you in finals, you need to grow that extra leg. He will bounce back next year in finals!!

Yeah, I saw the same thing when watching the Finals. He just stood there waiting for the ball to come to him, which isn't that great of a play on his part and more-so not very morale lifting seeing a star player lousing around the ground barely touching the ball.

I really liked Dale Thomas in the Finals, he was able to flow the ball from defense to our forwards and really stood out in my opinion.

Btw Ferga, I didn't get what you said about Leon being the hardest trainer? Do you mean trained?

~FL

 

[shawthing09]

There are a few.

Dawes - He needs to get solid hands overhead. If there was some kind of way to tape his hands above his face without restricting his marking ability that would be great but there isn't. One thing I'd suggest is have a coach pushing him under the flight of the ball consistantly when his going for marks. Just have someone kicking the ball in long and have someone go with him and give him a decent shove in the back as he gets to the ball. Make him take the ball higher then he'd like to.

Reid - He looks great at VFL level but to get the most of himself at AFL level he will need to be able to stop dangerous fowards. With the closing speed Reid has another thing you could do for Dawes is have him and Reid in a defender offender situation. There is no way Dawes would be able to outmark Reid unless he either A) Bodied up (which would be practice for Reid) or B) Took the ball at full height.

Maccaffer - I'd have him doing lots of work with O'Bree and the midfield group.

Thomas - I'd actually have him tag someone like Tarks a lot over the pre season. Thomas needs a bigger tank, he also doesn't seem to do himself any favours. Runs a lot harder when he is not involved in the play (and no chance of being involved in the play) then he should.

Just on a couple of Matty's points.

Goldsack as an outside mid is a terrible idea. He fumbles at ground level and has unreliable kicking. One of the key attributes that Goldsack has is his commitment to the contest, one of his biggest question marks is his offensive skills outside mid plays to the opposite of both.

Fraser as a permenant foward is not much better as an idea. Not a great contested mark, not all that quick either.

 

[Tranquilli37]

Need some all round the ground "mongrel" which I'm sure will come.

Big pre-season on the weights for most.

All forwards to get extensive goal kicking practice.

Agreed. They were lacking all of the above, and if they could work on these 3 areas we could have a real good season ahead.
'Mongrel' is a good attribute to have, but players need to recognise when theyre crossing the line and becoming thugs. A good example of this is when they played the Tigers late in the year. They played for eachother and without being over the top won the battle. The Tigers on the other hand, well it was well documented what the players thoughts were...
Considering we have a young side, we probably lack alot of size, but that will come over time.
Goal kicking has been average for a while now, and the position we finished on the ladder documented that. 1 kick that could have been converted could have placed us 1 spot higher on the ladder(WB by % JUST) and reshaped the finals series.

 

[King Woodie]

There are a few.

Dawes - He needs to get solid hands overhead. If there was some kind of way to tape his hands above his face without restricting his marking ability that would be great but there isn't. One thing I'd suggest is have a coach pushing him under the flight of the ball consistantly when his going for marks. Just have someone kicking the ball in long and have someone go with him and give him a decent shove in the back as he gets to the ball. Make him take the ball higher then he'd like to.

Reid - He looks great at VFL level but to get the most of himself at AFL level he will need to be able to stop dangerous fowards. With the closing speed Reid has another thing you could do for Dawes is have him and Reid in a defender offender situation. There is no way Dawes would be able to outmark Reid unless he either A) Bodied up (which would be practice for Reid) or B) Took the ball at full height.

Maccaffer - I'd have him doing lots of work with O'Bree and the midfield group.

Thomas - I'd actually have him tag someone like Tarks a lot over the pre season. Thomas needs a bigger tank, he also doesn't seem to do himself any favours. Runs a lot harder when he is not involved in the play (and no chance of being involved in the play) then he should.

Just on a couple of Matty's points.

Goldsack as an outside mid is a terrible idea. He fumbles at ground level and has unreliable kicking. One of the key attributes that Goldsack has is his commitment to the contest, one of his biggest question marks is his offensive skills outside mid plays to the opposite of both.

Fraser as a permenant foward is not much better as an idea. Not a great contested mark, not all that quick either.

I agree with Dawes, I agree with Reid, I agree with your assessment of Goldsack, and I agree with your assessment of Fraser.

I don't think Macaffer will become a midfielder. He may become a useful half forward / half back, but never a mid.

I think we should be trying to bulk Goldy up, with a view of him becoming a quick kpd / third tall. Has the tools to be able to play on the likes of a Franklin-type.

One I also want to mention is Barham. In his current incarnation he will not be an AFL footballer with his footskills. He needs to give as much work to this as work in every other area combined - almost hour for hour. He has promising attributes (speed, endurance, toughness), but is useless by foot. Put good footskills on Barham and we have a solid outside mid.

 

[Quicky]

Great off-season thread.

Cloke: Work all summer on his set shot routine. I remember a quote of his saying he only needs to tweak it a little bit - that got me worried. It needs a complete overhaul. Even if it gets completely changed and we have to put up with some short term pain - it can't be much worse than it already is aurely?? - and the long term pay-off could be huge. Considering we have to put up with the KPP we have with the compromised drafts getting Clokes kicking right is critical IMO. Also make sure he gets in a solid preseason and work on his contested marking.

Macaffer: Macaffer could be a huge addition to our team next year. He showed alot of quality in the finals series especially against Adelaide. I'd make sure he works on his aerobic capacity so he can run out full games and also push up into the midfield rotations.

Sidebottom: Needs a summer in the gym so he can deal with the big bodies in the midfield.

McCarthy: Get him through preseason unscathed Ditto Medhurst actually.

Beams: Work on aerobic capacity and get him in the gym.

Anthony: Get him to work on his fitness. Needs to be able to make multiple leads as well as making better defensive efforts. Work on his defensive game which I thought was pretty poor alot of this year.

Wood, Wellingham & Cox: I just want to see more commitment from all of these guys. If only they could get the best out of themselves their collective potential is enormous. Get them away from distractions and focussed on their footy.

Thomas: Get him to work on his positioning in the field of play. I think his tank is actually pretty good - he just isn't smart in the way he gets to contests. He runs around like a headless chook trying to create an option when I think he needs to be smarter about when to present himself. I think he would run out game alot better if he could get smarter with his field positioning and reading of the game.

EDIT: Shawthing beat me to it about Thomas LOL

 

[smiddaz123]

Couldn't agree more on Goldsack. Even contemplating him as an outside midfielder is a joke.

 

[Histrionics]

Good thread.

Would love to see Cox drop some kgs and get fitter. I really think he could be a regular part of out team next year if he can get fit.

Clokey to practise set shots and find a comfortable routine.

Wellers to put on some bulk and get some toughness about him around the ball.

 

[Optimax]

Couldn't agree more on Goldsack. Even contemplating him as an outside midfielder is a joke.

Yeah sack is an outside nothing

But it is time to give him a set role, do we devolop him as a very athletic Defensive KPP (he has the height so it would be strength training) or do we get his fitness massively high to play as a defensive Half back/tall tagger

Id probably go as the KPP because a backline consisting of Brown, Reid, Sack, harry, Maxy, heath will be able to cover most of everything

 

[Tranquilli37]

Some relavant points are being bought up in this thread. I think the problem with our list is theres alot of young blokes with potential, but they havnt been able to find their feet and they are all relevantly as good as eachother(makes harder to pick whos in the seniors and whos in the VFL).
Some are playing in position, some not(McCaffer and Goldsack issues that were mentioned). I think the coaching staff need to settle the list and develop them in that area of the ground. We have alot of good young blokes that cant find their way into the team, so trying to fit players in certain positions may help solve the issue.
It seems that were holding onto players, in the hope of it will come good eventually. This may not be fair on the players. It may be fairer on a player like Dawes to be moved on to get his opportunity in a club that will play him(players like Dick and possibly Fraser may make it difficult for him to get a game).
I am happy with the amount of depth in the list and thers alot of options, but this may be the problem that there are too many options to choose from.
*I hope this sort of made sense.

 

[Forgotten Legend]

Some relavant points are being bought up in this thread. I think the problem with our list is theres alot of young blokes with potential, but they havnt been able to find their feet and they are all relevantly as good as eachother(makes harder to pick whos in the seniors and whos in the VFL).
Some are playing in position, some not(McCaffer and Goldsack issues that were mentioned). I think the coaching staff need to settle the list and develop them in that area of the ground. We have alot of good young blokes that cant find their way into the team, so trying to fit players in certain positions may help solve the issue.
It seems that were holding onto players, in the hope of it will come good eventually. This may not be fair on the players. It may be fairer on a player like Dawes to be moved on to get his opportunity in a club that will play him(players like Dick and possibly Fraser may make it difficult for him to get a game).
I am happy with the amount of depth in the list and thers alot of options, but this may be the problem that there are too many options to choose from.
*I hope this sort of made sense.

Yeah I understand what your saying. We have a very young squad with incredible depth which comes at a price of having to much variety of options.

I think our forward line needs a overhaul to be bluntly honest. We have the talent, but it always seems to spoil sour at the wrong moments. Work on Cloke and Anthony would greatly improve our team overall.

~FL

 

[Invigoration]

There are a few.

Dawes - He needs to get solid hands overhead. If there was some kind of way to tape his hands above his face without restricting his marking ability that would be great but there isn't. One thing I'd suggest is have a coach pushing him under the flight of the ball consistantly when his going for marks. Just have someone kicking the ball in long and have someone go with him and give him a decent shove in the back as he gets to the ball. Make him take the ball higher then he'd like to.

Reid - He looks great at VFL level but to get the most of himself at AFL level he will need to be able to stop dangerous fowards. With the closing speed Reid has another thing you could do for Dawes is have him and Reid in a defender offender situation. There is no way Dawes would be able to outmark Reid unless he either A) Bodied up (which would be practice for Reid) or B) Took the ball at full height.

Maccaffer - I'd have him doing lots of work with O'Bree and the midfield group.

Thomas - I'd actually have him tag someone like Tarks a lot over the pre season. Thomas needs a bigger tank, he also doesn't seem to do himself any favours. Runs a lot harder when he is not involved in the play (and no chance of being involved in the play) then he should.

Just on a couple of Matty's points.

Goldsack as an outside mid is a terrible idea. He fumbles at ground level and has unreliable kicking. One of the key attributes that Goldsack has is his commitment to the contest, one of his biggest question marks is his offensive skills outside mid plays to the opposite of both.

Fraser as a permenant foward is not much better as an idea. Not a great contested mark, not all that quick either.

This, especially the comments about Dawes hands in front of his face and Thomas about expending energy when he isn't going to have an effect on the contest. Love his endeavour, but he needs to smarten up about a few things, he runs around like a chook a bit too often. I'd have him run with Didak, although Didak is probably not the hardest gut runner, he knows when to move and where to move to. Great lesson for him defensively as well, if you are managing to quell Dids then you are doing pretty well.
Didak needs to be tagged all summer anyway to make sure he adapts to the increase in attention he will invariably receive, needs to bust his arse for the preseason so he realises he won't be as easy as he use to have it, needs to work to always be in the game.

Dawes will never make it for mine, it is such a natural thing for a dominate forward to put his dukes out in front of him and strongly mark... It is seemingly something that can't be taught or something that Dawes is taking way too long to pick up on.

JA would benefit from some time with a successful FF, just to help him with the intricacies of how a really functional forward line works. He just needs to be shown how leading to the right spots and at the right times can favourably effect (or adversely sometimes with Jack) the rest of the forward group.
His contested marking/body positioning needs work. He is clearly strongly influenced by Jimmy Clement and his style would have been absolutely perfect pre-hands in the back rule... Unfortunately for him it has been squashed out of the game. Needs to just make sure he positions himself in the best place to either mark the ball or bring it to ground (without imposing), which is doesn't always do yet.
He has a heap of upside though, I can only see JA getting better.

The midfield group needs to spend the whole summer feeding and learning off Jolly, which I'm sure they will do.

Cox to lose some weight, I still think he can make it contrary to popular belief. If he was fit enough he'd make a perfect winger, he is quickly putting the stops on any potential AFL career at the moment though.

Dicky needs to work on his first touch skills, fumbles way too often at the moment.

 

[smiddaz123]

Dicky needs to work on his first touch skills, fumbles way too often at the moment.

Very, very good call. It often results in him being under pressure while kicking as well, which doesn't do justice to his natural kicking skills.