Opinion Why are the interstate teams so bad? How do we fix them?

kranky al

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Meeting another non-Vic side in the GF would be the most ideal for sure if you’re to make it. Removes any balance of home advantages/disadvantages for both sides.
Yes.

Then the mcg is a neutral venue.

Anyone remember after 2017 the amount of richmond fans hilariously trying to say the mcg was a neutral venue?

They actually argued that blind.
 

Cuzz09

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Interestingly prior to the 2017 Grand Final, the narrative in SA was that Adelaide don't lose Grand Finals (at the MCG).

Adelaide looked unbeatable in 17 and they were undefeated in GFs at that point albeit only 2 games. I thought they'd win.



The day after, Grand Finals at the MCG became an insurmountable barrier, with some on this board bizarrely insisting that it's a minimum 20 goal home ground advantage for MCG tenants.

12 months later:



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Grin

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Yes.

Then the mcg is a neutral venue.

Anyone remember after 2017 the amount of richmond fans hilariously trying to say the mcg was a neutral venue?

They actually argued that blind.
Do you have any evidence that, in Grand Finals, it's not a neutral venue?

Remember how you argued ad nauseam that the Crows would have won were the game played in Adelaide and that April form was the better measure of September form than September form itself? That the the Grand Final at the MCG actually gave MCG tenants a 20 goal advantage? :D

The best recent measure of MCG home ground advantage is, of course, the 2 finals played between West Coast and Collingwood in September 2018, which demonstrated that the MCG home ground advantage is less than a goal.

The facts just don't support your delusional victim narrative.
 

Purple7x08_24

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Reading into it way too much.
Went back to '15 and at least one interstater made the prelims. 50/50 was 2 interstaters.

It's a run.

Adelaide had every opportunity to win the GF and cooked it. Port missed out making it by a goal. Look at the bigger picture.
 

PrisonBars4life

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Interestingly prior to the 2017 Grand Final, the narrative in SA was that Adelaide don't lose Grand Finals (at the MCG). The day after, Grand Finals at the MCG became an insurmountable barrier, with some on this board bizarrely insisting that it's a minimum 20 goal home ground advantage for MCG tenants. Whilst this was obviously just bad sportsmanship and poor loser carry-on, this narrative of victimhood has taken a life of its own despite having precisely no evidence to back it up.

With regards to Stengle: The toxic culture at Adelaide has obviously persisted well past 2017. Merely months before Stengle's exit, the ex captain was casually referring to Aboriginal people as "black c****" with no awareness whatsoever that such language might possibly be offensive to the person it was aimed at. If that's the attitude of the club's leadership, it's hardly surprising that Aboriginal people struggle to strive in that environment.

In 2020, the common theme was Brisbane just had to win as they were going to have a Gabba GF. We were ridiculed for losing 2 home prelims. Funny how home ground advantage is a thing only when convenient. It's not like there are any stats that would show teams have a better home vs away record. It's not insurmountable, but it's another 1-3 goal advantage to be overcome. I don't think the umpires would have had the guts to serve up what they did in the 2016 GF if it were played at the SCG. It would have been alot harder to get back into the 2017 GF with Adelaide having got the jump on you and with a home crowd.

Not sure that it's the captain's responsibility to make sure you don't get caught driving at a blood alcohol of 0.125 or in possession of drugs.
 

kranky al

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Do you have any evidence that, in Grand Finals, it's not a neutral venue?

Yes.

The definition of a neutral venue.

One in which neither of the teams playing are a tenant.
Remember how you argued ad nauseam that the Crows would have won were the game played in Adelaide and that April form was the better measure of September form than September form itself? That the the Grand Final at the MCG actually gave MCG tenants a 20 goal advantage? :D

The best recent measure of MCG home ground advantage is, of course, the 2 finals played between West Coast and Collingwood in September 2018, which demonstrated that the MCG home ground advantage is less than a goal.

The facts just don't support your delusional victim narrative.
Actually none of that happened.

I keep showing you richmonds form away from the mcg over the entire year.

Not april, if it were just april we wouldnt be having this argument.

The bottom 5 - and port, the team that lost an elimination final at home to 8th…

Your

Teams

Entire

Year

Away

From

The

Mcg.
 

Grin

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Yes.

The definition of a neutral venue.

One in which neither of the teams playing are a tenant.
Good on you KA.
After 6 years you still can't come up with any evidence that Grand Finals at the MCG significantly advantage MCG tenants.
How about you get back to me when you can.

I keep showing you richmonds form away from the mcg over the entire year.

Not april, if it were just april we wouldnt be having this argument.

The bottom 5 - and port, the team that lost an elimination final at home to 8th…

Your

Teams

Entire

Year

Away

From

The

Mcg.

Ah ha. So it's all about Richmond. I can assure you that you're not the only 'neutral' gifting us rent free living space in your head.
The topic here is Grand Finals at the MCG on the Last Saturday in September.
We're not talking about the H&A season. If you want to talk about that, it's a different topic, and there's good evidence that non Melbourne based clubs get a significant advantage.
Do you have any evidence of a Vic advantage at the MCG in the Grand Final?
Please try to focus.
 

kranky al

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Good on you KA.
After 6 years you still can't come up with any evidence that Grand Finals at the MCG significantly advantage MCG tenants.
How about you get back to me when you can.



Ah ha. So it's all about Richmond. I can assure you that you're not the only 'neutral' gifting us rent free living space in your head.
The topic here is Grand Finals at the MCG on the Last Saturday in September.
We're not talking about the H&A season. If you want to talk about that, it's a different topic, and there's good evidence that non Melbourne based clubs get a significant advantage.
Do you have any evidence of a Vic advantage at the MCG in the Grand Final?
Please try to focus.
Its an mcg tenant advantage for starts and yes - i have the evidence of thousands of studies that show both players and teams play better on their home grounds.


How about YOU show US some evidence that richmond would have done well playing a gf away from the mcg?

What have you got?
 
Last edited:

blue harvest

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I think we didn't lose a home game in 1991 in the Home and Away but then lost first final at Subi v Hawks.

We didn't look as dominant second half of 1991.

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Yep, no point being champions in April, every year we seem to have an April premier, this year it was Melbourne but they were far from their best in September when it matters.
 

blue harvest

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Its an mcg tenant advantage for starts and yes - i have the evidence of thousands of studies that show both players and teams play better on their home grounds.


How about YOU show US some evidence that richmond would have done well playing a gf away from the mcg?

What have you got?

Are those studies about AFL though, factoring in the unique features/constraints we face?
Do they factor in the many 'home' derbies that a bunch of clubs have to play many times a season on a ground that lots of teams are familiar with? And are those studies about a Grand Final where both sets of supporters get good representation at the ground compared with other finals and h&a?
 

Enviable Tradition

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It won't happen because all you lot do is whinge on BF, go to your clubs and get them to make it happen.

It's always whinge, whinge, whinge, the big bad Vics don't like us, well the big bad Vics seem to do everything, the non-Vics just follow and cry.

Try doing something for yourselves.
Like when we went to the AFL and wanted to wear the prison bars and they told us we had to get approval from a big Vic club 1st?

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Enviable Tradition

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Okay, I should really buy/read that book

Under those circumstances, can certainly Understand why both Crows and Port fans feel aggrieved/angry at the AFL

I firmly believe club members (of every club) should have a say into the make up and elections of their club boards.

Don't like the AFL putting their own 'people' on the boards of clubs, unless it's for expansion clubs like The Suns or Giants (and even then, only for somewhat short-medium term tenure)
Absolutely. No real member accountability is killing us.

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Enviable Tradition

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I think the big difference is vic clubs can add 2 or 3 players easily via trade and free agency.

Geelong added 7 or 8 players, Melbourne at least 3, Hawks 4 or 5, Richmond 2 or 3.

Non Vic clubs just don't have the number of players coming to their state. That is why they are falling short.
The real reason was revealed by Dustys manager when he spoke of the massive offer the Crows made to him.
He advised him he could make more money staying at Richmond despite getting paid far less on field.

All the media opportunities and corporate backing is in Melbourne.

I dont know how we equalise this but it makes a massive difference in player movement both into and out of Vic.

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Enviable Tradition

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What do prison bars have to do with being bad?

Are you saying the players are so fragile at Port, they need the bars to perform?
I'm saying the concept that the non Vic teams need to just toughen up and make things happen is simplistic to say the least.

We are hamstrung by the AFL who control our board.

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LoungeLizard

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I'm saying the concept that the non Vic teams need to just toughen up and make things happen is simplistic to say the least.

We are hamstrung by the AFL who control our board.

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Tell me what Port have ever done on their own, or any club for that matter, the VFL were broke, you all had a chance to maybe see it go under, but no, they got their way and you all followed.

Not one of the non-Vic teams or the states they come from have ever taken the initiative, they follow, like sheep, and cry like lambs.

And here you are crying like a lamb because you can't wear the prison bars, if your club had any balls, they would just wear them.
 

go_the_dockers

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The real reason was revealed by Dustys manager when he spoke of the massive offer the Crows made to him.
He advised him he could make more money staying at Richmond despite getting paid far less on field.

All the media opportunities and corporate backing is in Melbourne.

I dont know how we equalise this but it makes a massive difference in player movement both into and out of Vic.

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Equal Thursday, Friday and Saturday night games would help. (Nationally broadcast games)
 

Enviable Tradition

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And here you are crying like a lamb because you can't wear the prison bars, if your club had any balls, they would just wear them.

I agree. The problem is that our board, elected by AFL house, who can be removed by AFL house, unsurprisingly bow down to AFL house.

What do you suggest that the real club (the members, who aren't actually recognised in the constitution as members) do about this?

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BIRDBRAIN

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I think it's clear by now that in modern times the only way for an interstate team to win a premiership at the MCG is to play another interstate team, or Collingwood.
 

FreoFan85

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Do you have any evidence that, in Grand Finals, it's not a neutral venue?

Remember how you argued ad nauseam that the Crows would have won were the game played in Adelaide and that April form was the better measure of September form than September form itself? That the the Grand Final at the MCG actually gave MCG tenants a 20 goal advantage? :D

The best recent measure of MCG home ground advantage is, of course, the 2 finals played between West Coast and Collingwood in September 2018, which demonstrated that the MCG home ground advantage is less than a goal.

The facts just don't support your delusional victim narrative.
Literally in the same post by yourself. Find me any team that wouldn’t take “ a less than a goal” advantage.

I think the difference between the two games was approx 21 points so that is a 3.5 goal advantage. If you are using this as any form of argument.

I would have loved a 3.5 goal advantage in 2013.
 

LoungeLizard

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Literally in the same post by yourself. Find me any team that wouldn’t take “ a less than a goal” advantage.

I think the difference between the two games was approx 21 points so that is a 3.5 goal advantage. If you are using this as any form of argument.

I would have loved a 3.5 goal advantage in 2013.
It doesn't work like that mate, no matter how hard you try, you won't work it out, so many variables.

Let's just say Vic teams have an advantage.

Myself think non-Vics have h&a advantage, but it seems non-Vics won't agree ever that they have some advantages, so it's never going to be agreed upon, so these threads are going to be here forever.