Why are we so quick to discard coaches?

kaiserchief13

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It's not like Reid had terrible performances. He lost 1 superbowl before (grand final) and numerous championship games (prelims)
 

D-N-R

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This new generation of australians are as soft as fu** and they can't handle criticism that isn't delivered with a kiss and cuddle. They all grow up thinking they are shit hot and can't handle for a second being told they aren't.
You don't have to categorize people though
:think:
 

Mister M

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You can analyze it all you want or you can realize it's but one simple thing. This new generation of australians are as soft as fu** and they can't handle criticism that isn't delivered with a kiss and cuddle. They all grow up thinking they are shit hot and can't handle for a second being told they aren't. The older blokes still try to talk to them like every other generation before but it doesn't translate.

Seriously all this crap about how Richmond players care about each other on a deeper level makes me sick. Kick the ******* ball to a teammate and then he kicks a goal, you don't need to know that his GF doesn't talk to him in bed every night to do that.

All a coach in the AFL does is constantly rub the egos of the current day player, older generation doesn't fu** with that.
You're right...

We should go back to the Good Old days where cigarettes were smoked by players at half time, pubs closed at 6pm, every footy game was played at 2:10pm on a Saturday afternoon, Indigenous people couldn't vote and Hawthorn only had one premiership. :rolleyes:
 

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Luv_our_club

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Good question, the good ones were often very controversial as players and aggressive.
Ah, that is the theory that back-pocket type players make the best coaches. There are only a few exceptions - such as Blight, Barrasi, Roos.


Have you also ever noticed how small are the men who become Hollywood sex symbols?


Success in life could often be driven by a need to compensate.
 

Scotland

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Brad Scott coached for a decade and I can tell you his 50% win/loss means he's not terrible but I couldn't tell you what he does well or stands for.
Also 10 years is a long time in terms of list turnover. North won between 10 and 14 games a year in a 22 game competition between 2010 and 2016. You could argue they failed because they never finished higher than 6th in the H&A season and never made it past a prelim, but you could counter argue they did pretty well with what they had. 2015 we played Haw, North, Haw in our 3 finals. One of those sides was full of AAs, club legends, Norm Smith winners etc. and the other wore blue and white. Your best player shouldn't be 37.

If you accept the premise that the Brad Scott era was a failure how much blame is on Brad Scott? Who signed Waite, Dal Santo and Higgins? Who traded for Polec? Who drafted LDU at pick 4 or whatever he was. Etc. It's hard to make the jump from a middle of the road team to a flag contender in the AFL. If you hang around the mark for 7 years like North did (and they did it under Laidley also) you don't get access to early draft picks. Since Scott took over as North coach a number of teams were putrid and then went past North in terms of winning prelims, flags etc. I'd argue that North are OK now, but they don't have a list of players that should be challenging for the 2020 flag.

(not having a go at Brad Scott, just highlighting coaches get associated with eras at clubs even though they are just one of the moving parts)
 

Stabby McGee

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Okay, you have explained why all coaches are men. But it was a 2-part question - you still need to explain why they are also normally short.
Coz you have to me smarter to be short in a big mans game. Back pockets tend to do better on average as coaches than forward pockets. One has to use everything he can to stay in the game, while the other just does what his talent tells him to do. Much easier to communicate how you had study an opponent to beat them than say ‘well I could kick 6 goals out of my arse because I was just really good at doing that.

Anyway, things are changing. The coach is the ceo of the football factory now, and less the one man band. More likely to be making sure the football dept was doing it’s job rather than micromanaging the players.

As for the millennials are soft and ok boomer rubbish - each generation is a trial to their elders, and the past is a foreign country - they do things differently there. No generation is better or worse than others. Just a product of their time and place.
 

Luv_our_club

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Coz you have to me smarter to be short in a big mans game. Back pockets tend to do better on average as coaches than forward pockets. One has to use everything he can to stay in the game, while the other just does what his talent tells him to do. Much easier to communicate how you had study an opponent to beat them than say ‘well I could kick 6 goals out of my arse because I was just really good at doing that.

Anyway, things are changing. The coach is the ceo of the football factory now, and less the one man band. More likely to be making sure the football dept was doing it’s job rather than micromanaging the players.

As for the millennials are soft and ok boomer rubbish - each generation is a trial to their elders, and the past is a foreign country - they do things differently there. No generation is better or worse than others. Just a product of their time and place.
Millennials could turn out to be one of the great generations, imo.

My only criticism is they don't read books like the boomers.
 

swiftdog

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Communication is very important to the current generation and how it is communicated is also very important.

30 years ago a player not happy with how a coach treated or talked to him would be either delisted or told to get with the program and do what his coach tells him.
Now a coach can be removed over simply one player not liking him and the old days of the club and board backing in their coaches are long gone, we live in a world where perception by the public is everything and clubs will stop at nothing to make sure they look good in the publics eyes even though deep down they probably don't agree with the levels they have to go to make the public feel warm and fuzzy.

Just a different world now, I grew up in the previous world and wouldn't swap it for anything but these guys grow up in this system and would stay the same.
Why it has gone so far in favour of the player only god knows but it is what it is.
This doesn’t really hold up to criticism. The decisions in recent times by Richmond and Collingwood to retain Hardwick and Buckley respectively were unpopular at the time. Richmond supporters can chime in more about their situation but certainly from a Collingwood perspective there was a lot of vitriol directed at Buckley, McGuire and the club at the end of 2017 by a very vocal contingent of Collingwood supporters. Not to mention media reports suggesting that it was more of a case of “when” rather than “if” Buckley was going to be sacked. Fairly safe to say at this stage that both clubs made wise decisions here and strong leaders won’t bow down to public pressure (although should obviously consider the thoughts of the members).
The reality is that we’ve moved on from the “old days” because we as a society have realized that effective leadership is more than simply yelling at your employees to work harder.
 

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Topkent

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You're right...

We should go back to the Good Old days where cigarettes were smoked by players at half time, pubs closed at 6pm, every footy game was played at 2:10pm on a Saturday afternoon, Indigenous people couldn't vote and Hawthorn only had one premiership. :rolleyes:
This post doesn't make any sense.
 

Lsta062

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You can analyze it all you want or you can realize it's but one simple thing. This new generation of australians are as soft as fu** and they can't handle criticism that isn't delivered with a kiss and cuddle. They all grow up thinking they are shit hot and can't handle for a second being told they aren't. The older blokes still try to talk to them like every other generation before but it doesn't translate.

Seriously all this crap about how Richmond players care about each other on a deeper level makes me sick. Kick the ******* ball to a teammate and then he kicks a goal, you don't need to know that his GF doesn't talk to him in bed every night to do that.

All a coach in the AFL does is constantly rub the egos of the current day player, older generation doesn't fu** with that.
I get your point, but you really think that’s exclusive to the younger generation? Why do you think middle-aged to elderly Karen became a meme?

This is an issue in the modern era and not restricted to only the younger generation. Some youngsters can’t handle criticism without it being soft. Some elderly people can’t handle criticism without it being soft.

I agree in that I don’t like that bog ordinary people are made to think that they’re so special, but I don’t think there is something wrong with showing a soft side. Tough love isn’t the only thing that gets results. The Richmond players are soft to each other, but tough on the opposition. It tells me that Hardwick is a good coach because a good coach flexes their style to their audience.
 

PhatBoy

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"young people are soft" is the most boring opinion you can have. I can guarantee all the players today train longer and harder than their counterparts of the 80s and 90s.
They’re also paid a good deal more and don’t have another profession most of the time
 

PhatBoy

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I don’t think age is a factor in the case of someone like Malthouse for example. His last stint as a coach was terrible so he probably deserved the spear.

but I do think the general lack of patience that seems to dog most of our society in general these days is playing a part in coaches of any age being moved on too fast
 

juss

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Seriously all this crap about how Richmond players care about each other on a deeper level makes me sick. Kick the ******* ball to a teammate and then he kicks a goal, you don't need to know that his GF doesn't talk to him in bed every night to do that.
Richmond would be one of the best examples of teamwork, team culture and system over talent. And it has brought about our most successful period since the 70s. This came from 2017 where its well documented that "connection" has been an enormous part of what the club has been about.

I hope other clubs have the same dinosaur thinking you do. Successful teams where you are required to be selfless and put your body on the line, train to exhaustion so the whole can succeed. Yeh I cant see at all how connection and love of your mates could help with that cause....
 

Topkent

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Richmond would be one of the best examples of teamwork, team culture and system over talent. And it has brought about our most successful period since the 70s. This came from 2017 where its well documented that "connection" has been an enormous part of what the club has been about.

I hope other clubs have the same dinosaur thinking you do. Successful teams where you are required to be selfless and put your body on the line, train to exhaustion so the whole can succeed. Yeh I cant see at all how connection and love of your mates could help with that cause....
I bet you were just froffing at the mouth when you realised you could make this all about Richmond
 

juss

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I bet you were just froffing at the mouth when you realised you could make this all about Richmond
Despite you being the first person in the thread to bring them up, Im directly referencing your old school approach which is no longer best practice. That extends to coaching and management too.
 

juss

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Yeh okay that's fine, you can dismiss with emojis instead of trying to have a debate with opinions, but I think most people here have explained how your views are outdated. Leadership, management and teaching (that's effectively coaching in a nutshell) have moved on from the way it sounds like you would like to have it. It's no longer an angry bloke yelling at kids to "harden the fu** up and just kick the ball". There are better practices and ways to do things now that build better relationships within teams and between individuals.

As generally this is probably more associated with the younger "new age" of coaches, this might in part explain why the AFL has become increasingly likely to employ these relationship focused, teacher style coaches (Hardwick, Beveridge, Bolton to name a few), over the older Rocket Eade types who come from that more traditional time.

Many 70s/80s/90s coaches for example had success in their eras, but wouldn't be employed as a head coach today if they had the same coaching style.
 

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