Analysis Why are we so terrible at overhead marking?

This has been a bugbear of mine for a while. We simply lack competitiveness in the air.

This year we are ranked 17th for contested marking, and in recent weeks we've lost the contested mark count 20-4 and 12-5.

This follows from last year where we had games where we lost the contested marking count 16-7 (Essendon), 13-5 (West Coast), 11-3 (Carlton). These were all middling sides who absolutely smashed us aerially.

So what is the issue?

Recruiting short people is an factor - Rowe, McHenry, Jones, Parnell, Murphy, etc. but Porps was no taller than these guys and he was one of the best marks we ever had.

IMO the big problem is ROB, Himmelberg, Frampton, McAsey, Worrell, Fogarty and even Thilthorpe are all varying degrees of poor overhead. Even at SANFL level these guys get outmarked far too easily. We can't even halve the contest and bring the ball to ground. Some of these guys are still very young but I worry that they have such a poor technique, just adding a few kg's won't fix the issue.

It's not just contested marking either - we get lost on the lead too easily. Frampton in particular just stands there while his opponent takes an uncontested mark. Thilthorpe and Fog are guilty of this at the other end of the ground. The quality of our delivery inside 50 is atrocious, but even Murphy puts up more of a fight in the air than guys 20cm taller than him. Is there an issue of us not going hard enough? Quite possibly - Gollant at least has a crack at everything.

It's been a problem for as long as I can remember - the four pronged tall forward line that couldn't catch a cold in the GF, Tex with his infamous one handed attempts, Jenkins who would constantly play from behind and Hartigan who used to get falconed on a regular basis. Dangerfield was the last player we had who was decent overhead.

I don't think it's just an issue of drafting as these guys were at the very least decent in their draft year. Do we need a dedicated marking coach?

One thing that needs to happen is whoever is our ruckman needs to be ordered to not enter the forward 50, and to push back to help out the backs at every opportunity.

Thoughts?
 

hendo8888

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Because we don't draft many super athletic types and we have a lot of short players
You see some teams who put too much stock into athletic ability, but it really seems like we go the other way with that
 
We don't value it in drafting, recruiting or selection in comparison with some other skills/traits

I daresay don't practice it

Don't have any craft coaches who have nous in that area
Someone posted a Twitter video of Crows training a few weeks ago, which showed a number of 1v1 marking contests from our KPP's (Murray, McAsey, etc).

One thing that stood out was not one of them protected the drop of the ball.

That's something that I was taught in U12's - get your body in between the ball and your opponent, so that you can absort the contact and then take the mark (or get the free kick). Tex's mark to win the game against Melbourne last year was a classic example of this. Rowe took a mark inside 50 this year against Collingwood using the same principle.
 
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Think a lot of our forward players who are "bigger" body wise are slightly undersized height wise and lack athleticism (Tex/Fog) and our taller players who have some athleticism are undersized weight wise ('Berg/Thilthorpe currently). Frampton and 'Berg also don't have the greatest hands either, which makes the problem even harder when you gotta double clutch every mark attempt.

Then through the midfield we're just generally undersized to have a big impact there.
 

BrissyCrow

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For me Dawson is one of the better marks if not the best one at attacking the overhead mark. I look at players like Tex, Himmelberg, and Fog they can on the odd occasion take good marks but they cant do it regularly. You cant depend on them taking that contested mark. McAdam, now he can take a mark but again he doesnt take many. He misses a lot. Of all the forwards that have shown an ability to handle a pack mark its Gollant. He still needs more upper body strength but I believe he will develop into one of our dependable markers but not a specky marker.

I was thinking that Fog would be that player who could hold his ground and take a strong pack mark. He has the frame for it but he just cant hold onto the ball.

TT is our only hope but he will take time.
 
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thebirdman 24

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Our talls can't take a contested mark and our smalls were never a chance.

Walker has been grabbing them cleanly the past couple of years. Mcadam, Dawson and Doedee are reliable also but apart from that we really struggle with contested marking.

You'd expect Berg and Frampton to be good marks with there size but they are awful. Robs one redeeming feature was his marking and that has also fallen away (hence the axing).

Thilthorpe and Rachele will be good marks in the future.

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Do you honestly think we don't practice contested marking?
I'm sure it's at the absolute bottom of the list. Guessing of course. Any contested marking stuff I've seen is incidental in game play

And even if they do who is the shrewd tactician on the coaching staff who knows the craft inside our, can teach them to be adept with bodywork, judging the flight, guarding space, timing leap etc?

If they practise it it's just poor markers competing against other poor markers and not getting any better.
 
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Contested marks are such a rare event it's hard to draw conclusions based on the stat. Even the best of current players (J. McGovern) only averages 2.13 per game.
 
Oct 6, 2012
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It's because we kick over their heads and can't hit leading targets
This. We don’t have enough players with good kicking skills to provide our players with a semblance of advantage.

Couple that with players like Fog who think they can out wrestle defenders and there you have it.

Remember two / three years ago when we thought Tex was cooked. He would spend his time wrestling defenders and struggled to touch the ball. Then he finally realised you have to get on your bike and create some movement.
 
Another demolition in the air, losing the CM count 5-11.

Soligo took more contested marks than Himmelberg, Walker and Fogarty combined.
 
Here are a selection of the forwards and forward/rucks we've played (min. 0.5 goals per game) and the number of marks they averaged

Tom Lynch - 6.16
James Podsiadly - 5.81
Scott Stevens - 5.50
Taylor Walker - 5.47
Nick Gill - 5.47
Ian Perrie - 5.15
Mitch McGovern - 5.00
Josh Jenkins - 4.87
Jack Gunston - 4.64
Tony Modra - 4.51
Ken McGregor - 4.43
Matthew Robran - 4.43
Trent Hentschel - 4.32
Kurt Tippett - 3.99
Darren Smith - 3.89
Shaun McKernan - 3.86
Randall Bone - 3.83
Lewis Johnston - 3.70
Anthony Ingerson - 3.56
Mark Stevens - 3.51
Billy Frampton* - 3.46
Elliot Himmelberg - 3.29
Darcy Fogarty - 3.09

Peter McIntyre - 3.07
Ryan Fitzgerald - 2.94
Chris Groom - 2.42

Himmelberg, Frampton and Fogarty are all time bad marks for us

You know what's embarrassing about those stats?

Jason Porplyzia - 3.87
Matthew Wright - 3.79
Peter Vardy - 3.13
Eddie Betts - 2.92
Jared Petrenko - 2.79
Ian Callinan - 2.72
Charlie Cameron - 2.67

These ******* big tall forwards are barely better marks than some of our SMALL FORWARDS over the years! Himmelberg is a 200cm player and he averages 0.37 more marks per game than Eddie ******* Betts

*excluding games played in defense
 
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