Society/Culture Why are young males now more right wing then older males?

[Blue1980]

Ok so if they are not interested in this, then what is it that they want?
Unfortunately, society dictates that there is a need for money to live. I wish that wasn't the case but at present there is a need to work to earn money to therefore survive. I have a 22 year old and 19 year old. Neither finished school because there were better things to do with their time. And they have then struggled to understand why keeping employment if you don't follow the rules of the company is quite difficult to do.

I've found almost an expectation that everything is easy to attain. That the idea of working hard shouldn't be a requirement to earn as much as someone who has been working for 30 years. There should be immediate reward. Things will just happen.

I've worked in education for 20 years. The change in attitude has been dramatic. Less expectation to follow rules, little backing by home, a process where excuses are made for behaviour for years only to find when these young men decide to get trades or employment to leave school, no one will take them. And this isn't all of them. But that number that would have been a small amount 30 years ago has increased in size.

Young men have been influenced by a new environment. Social media, podcasts etc have had such an impact on their growth and understanding and place in the world. And you can see it even on BF when comments about white guys being blamed for all of societies ills.

Shit I'm a white middle aged guy. I know my privilege. I know I've been lucky. I also know I'm not 'responsible' for the ills of the world. But understand and respect the history of society to understand that white guys have had it pretty ****ing good.

Basically now there are enough people with podcasts or whatever who will tell someone what they want to hear if they are unhappy with their lives and want to blame it on external factors.

There are often legit reasons which do hold people back, but being a young white male finding people who will tell them that they aren’t getting everything they want because of the woke/DEI/trans/women etc of the world is disingenuous and detrimental to society.

 

[Blue1980]

well if you followed the conversation i was saying women using the 'real man' analogy is just a technique used to manipulate men into doing what women want

If your entire validation comes from women, sure that’s what it is.

Of course women can be campaigners too, no one is arguing against that.

 

[Grumpyshades]

If your entire validation comes from women, sure that’s what it is.

Of course women can be campaigners too, no one is arguing against that.

really ? I believe there is large sections of the media government and law that would have you believe women are never at fault for anything

 

[sr36]

So a person that talks about viewing and characterising everything objectively. And yet points to all hierarchical structures and says everything morally wrong associated with a hierarchical structure has been generated by those with views on the right of the political spectrum. Hate to shatter your wildly inaccurate university postmoderist properganda. The left and right political spectrum was a concept created during the french revolution in 1789. Evidence of slavery predates written records 10,000 years ago. Slavery of course being the first racial hierarchal structure not owned by the left of right because it didn't exist. All humans engaged in the slave trade irrespective of tribe or race. It still exists today and is ofter largest in developing countries without democratic structures. Asian, Africa, Arab nations. Hierarchial structures first appeared in the transition from tribes to those of farming communities and agriculture structures. Which required leadership, organisation and the management of resources to fairly distribute the proceeds throughout society. In other words the only reason you are still receiving the food on your plate is because of a hierarchical structure.

The terms may have first been used then, but groups with different priorities and different visions of governance and society goes back as far as history. The concept is way older.

Well before the French revolution, Martin Luther nailed his theses to a church, it was very much what we'd describe now as a left wing/progressive political statement. And going back further there's countless examples of political conflict throughout history that can be discussed as a left vs right debate.

 

[Run n Spread]

Easy the extreme left gained serious traction at the turn of the century power from around mid 2010s minus Trump 1.
And went batshit insane in the covid 2020 period.
Given all this historical data the extreme left position is a failure. It hasn't worked.
Hell even the philosophy of Marxism has been tried in many different cultures over 150 years.
It doesn't work.
Meanwhile why are Australian males more right wing now?
Who knows? Could be up bringing . No doubt influences from the above. But when times get tough people become more insular and reactive. And hunker down. We live in uncertain times. The left failed so hell why not grasp at the right? Not like extreme rights haven't failed??
Ultimately thku from an Australian context all this shit could be fixed with 1 policy change but no one on the right or the left wants to change it because there lips are firmly suckled at the tit of high property prices

 

[sr36]

ive already documented twice its my opinion

Do you see how something like "mangoes are delicious" is an opinion, whereas "there is large sections of the media government and law that would have you believe women are never at fault for anything" is a claim that is either supported or not supported by evidence?

It's not an opinion, it's either fictitious misinformation, or it's a conclusion you've come to based on something other than imagination.

You could probably try to establish some support for the media part of the claim, but I'd be surprised if you could establish any support at all for the law.

 

[Gough]

I remember the early MAGA incarnations loved to talk about how facts don't care about your feelings. Now the movement is almost an entirely reactionary one based around perceived slights against their orange dog.

 

[Coolangatta]

As much as I hate to say it, right wing populism isn’t just limited to America.

If you were to put it to the world I would say 30-40% like Trump, 30-40% don’t and 30-40% don’t care/hate both.

And that’s not going to change.

Dutton is a 50/50 chance of winning.

 

[Grumpyshades]

Do you see how something like "mangoes are delicious" is an opinion, whereas "there is large sections of the media government and law that would have you believe women are never at fault for anything" is a claim that is either supported or not supported by evidence?

It's not an opinion, it's either fictitious misinformation, or it's a conclusion you've come to based on something other than imagination.

You could probably try to establish some support for the media part of the claim, but I'd be surprised if you could establish any support at all for the law.

the FACT that women receive substantially lesser sentences or fines than men for committing the exact same crime already proves you are wrong

 

[Ghost Patrol]

the FACT that women receive substantially lesser sentences or fines than men for committing the exact same crime already proves you are wrong

People that can afford expensive lawyers receive substantially lesser sentences or fines for committing the exact same crimes....

But you'd rather frame things as a male vs female thing?

 

[Grumpyshades]

People that can afford expensive lawyers receive substantially lesser sentences or fines for committing the exact same crimes....

But you'd rather frame things as a male vs female thing?

so you're blaming this phenomenon on wealth not gender ?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

so you're blaming this phenomenon on wealth not gender ?

Class and wealth are bigger factors than gender.

Race trumps them all.

 

[Gethelred]

the FACT that women receive substantially lesser sentences or fines than men for committing the exact same crime already proves you are wrong

From this link, Gender Differences in Sentencing Outcomes (2010):

Men and women have different patterns of criminal behaviour. Women’s offending tends to be less serious in terms of the nature of the criminal behaviour, with women being less likely to be involved in violent offences.

In the Victorian County and Supreme Courts, overall women are less likely to be sentenced to a term of imprisonment and, when they are, women receive shorter average total effective terms. For most offences women are more likely to be sentenced to a wholly suspended sentence or a community-based order, both of which are served in the community rather than in custody.

In the Magistrates’ Court of Victoria, women are less likely to receive a sentence of imprisonment for all of the offence categories examined. For most of the offence types, women receive a shorter term of imprisonment than do men.

Women’s sentences are shorter as they are more likely than men to have a constellation of factors that can validly reduce the length of a sentence.

The profile of men and women in Victorian prisons is substantially different. Women prisoners have less serious criminal histories than do men, with fewer prior convictions and less serious previous and current offending in terms of the type of offences for which they have been imprisoned. They also tend to be sent to prison for shorter periods, likely a reflection of their less serious offending and their more complex personal histories and situations.

The biographies of female offenders vary systematically from those of men. Contributing to their blurred status as both victims and offenders, women are more likely than men to have a history of factors that are often causally interrelated, such as mental illness, physical or sexual victimization in childhood or early adulthood, and substance abuse. Women are also more likely than men to have primary caregiver status.

The effect of gender on sentencing is not direct, but travels via two distinct paths: via gender differences in offending behaviour; and via the individual biographies of women that see a greater proportion of women coming before the court with a constellation of characteristics that creates legitimate mitigating circumstances. It is these mitigating factors that lead to disparities in sentencing outcomes for men and women in the criminal courts, disparities that appear warranted and that are not immediately indicative of any pervasive ‘bias’. Thus the disparities seen in sentencing outcomes for men and women are a reflection of legitimate but gender-linked characteristics: differences are evident because of factors associated with being female, not because of gender per se.

So, while you are ostensibly correct, there are a number of factors which lead women offenders to serving less time for the same crime. Some of those factors include:

• less actual offenses.
• less violent offenses.
• less criminal history prior to the offense.

All in all, it's not really an accurate statement of the state of the criminal justice system - and that I'm going into bat for it surprises me - to portray it as gender biased. And if you want to make an actual argument in this direction the crime forum is this way:

Crime

Crime, criminals, unsolved cases, historical crime and stories.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Carringbush2010]

the FACT that women receive substantially lesser sentences or fines than men for committing the exact same crime already proves you are wrong

You'll be asked to link evidence to this.

 

[sr36]

the FACT that women receive substantially lesser sentences or fines than men for committing the exact same crime already proves you are wrong

Good point. However, you use such over the top rhetoric that women receiving sentences or fines at all makes your statement wrong.

 

[the_interloper]

As much as I hate to say it, right wing populism isn’t just limited to America.

If you were to put it to the world I would say 30-40% like Trump, 30-40% don’t and 30-40% don’t care/hate both.

And that’s not going to change.

Dutton is a 50/50 chance of winning.

Says a lot about the failing of the current government if Dutton is a chance.

 

[Coolangatta]

Says a lot about the failing of the current government if Dutton is a chance.

MSM is biased against the ALP IMO.

Pretty much all the major billionaire backers and donors, your Gina’s, Rupert’s and Palmer’s are with LNP.

So that doesn’t help.

It’s not like the cost of living and housing issues are something new in Australia.

Has been an issue the past 10 years but you hear more about it now so they can get people to blame the incumbents rather than look at what lead us to this point.

 

[Gralin]

MSM is biased against the ALP IMO.

Pretty much all the major billionaire backers and donors, your Gina’s, Rupert’s and Palmer’s are with LNP.

So that doesn’t help.

It’s not like the cost of living and housing issues are something new in Australia.

Has been an issue the past 10 years but you hear more about it now so they can get people to blame the incumbents rather than look at what lead us to this point.

It's been getting worse for a long time and interest rates rising have accelerated the problem

Labor in opposition generally voted for policies that got us here so they still bear some level of blame for what has occurred prior to them taking power

With housing their response has been to further entrench inequality and give even more money to the private sector, exactly what you'd expect the coalition to do

So while you can't say it's solely their fault they sure as shit are a big part of the problem

Regardless of how or why we got here the average person will look at who is in charge now and blame them for the issue if they don't fix it

 

[kranky al]

So the Liberal Party whose two former leaders wrote references for George Pell at his trial and whose current leader attended his funeral, the party of Alan Jones who only didn't become an MP because his predatory behaviour was well but who continued to enjoy his considerable patronage are going to be tough on crime?

Absolutely they will. Browns and poors need it or they will get browner and poorer.


Oh you mean rich white folk like the guy in the Audi who deliberately hit a child with his car and got fined $800?

Then no

 

[kranky al]

It's been getting worse for a long time and interest rates rising have accelerated the problem

Labor in opposition generally voted for policies that got us here so they still bear some level of blame for what has occurred prior to them taking power

With housing their response has been to further entrench inequality and give even more money to the private sector, exactly what you'd expect the coalition to do

So while you can't say it's solely their fault they sure as shit are a big part of the problem

Regardless of how or why we got here the average person will look at who is in charge now and blame them for the issue if they don't fix it

This is true.

I believe there’s some instant relief measures they could have taken such as eliminating / reducing negative gearing for airbnb’s and empty houses attracting a tax and using the proceeds to fund tiny houses projects for instance.

Thing is a lot of Labor pollies airbnb….

 

[peetoo]

This is true.

I believe there’s some instant relief measures they could have taken such as eliminating / reducing negative gearing for airbnb’s and empty houses attracting a tax and using the proceeds to fund tiny houses projects for instance.

Thing is a lot of Labor pollies airbnb….

Labor state govt did that already victoria

 

[kranky al]

Labor state govt did that already victoria

Good on them.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Division, over sensitivity and censorship, cancel culture, Identity politics, victim mentality, soft stances on crime..

Why do you think right wing politics are making comebacks around the world?

 

[RedStarUncle]

Division, over sensitivity and censorship, cancel culture, Identity politics, victim mentality, soft stances on crime..

Why do you think right wing politics are making comebacks around the world?

Division ("we're the party for common sense not those with fringe ideologies")
Over-sensitivity and censorship ("we should ban anyone who highlights injustice against First Nations people on Australia Day)
Cancel Culture ("Lidia Thorpe shouldn't be allowed on parliament, and lets defund the ABC it's a tool for left-wing bias")
Identity Politics ("we'll ensure you're legally either completely male or completely female... there will be strict definitions about what that means")
Victim Mentality ("males keep getting told about toxic masculinity and female empowerment... of course they're going to reject that side of politics")
Soft Stances on Crime ("oh you cheated on your taxes for the last 10 years? How about you pay back 10% of what you owe and we'll cease all further actions and prosecutions")



Yep... modern right politics really has you covered to solve all those problems.

 

[.Shotties.]

And are growing up in a society that tells young women they can achieve anything, while simultaneously telling young men that their masculinity is a toxic trait.

Toxic masculinity refers to the traits that are assigned to men by society, not that the concept of masculinity itself is toxic.

Things like not talking about how they're going (mental health issues), that men aren't caregivers and that it's a woman's job (which would feed into the perceived bias in family courts), the drinking and risky behaviour they're pressured into as parts of rites of passage, this whole, weird alpha male thing that won't die. These are all societal / community assigned meanings of masculinity that probably harm more than anything else.

It's a shame that a concept which outlines that a lot of men don't need to fit into the parameters expected of them, and that a lot of those can be harmful, has been hijacked and made into something it isn't.