Society/Culture Why are young males now more right wing then older males?

[errant bounce]

Young men with shit lives who have been told they're privileged is the main issue, basically.

 

[mrherman]

Fascinated by how you point to China, India, and Japan as nationalist examples… while glossing over the fact that, outside of Japan, none of them offer the general population a higher standard of living than most Western countries — especially in Europe, Canada, Australia, or even large chunks of the U.S. (though they are working on getting worse currently). And Japan? They’ve got universal healthcare, strong unions, and a culture of civic responsibility — hardly a blueprint for the libertarian fever dream you're hinting at.

If you’re saying the West is crumbling because of “leftist influence,” maybe ask why most people in the world would still rather live in a Western democracy than your nationalist role models. Spoiler: it ain’t because they love long queues and collapsing infrastructure.

in Australia yes, but if it continues this way and become like other Western countries no. i value freedom and a healthy life over everything else. when yo u come from a communist country you view life differently that others do in the west.

today Western Europe, USA, NZ are stuffed & greatly unaffordable. Australia is lagging. face of those countries have changed over the past 15 years open borders, crime and theft are through the roof, they are slowly turning in to 3rd worlds, housing os unaffordable, the hospital and social programs are over loaded, the education systems is a mess kids are becoming activists marxists instead of educated, the gap between rich and poor is becoming greater we are led by weak corrupt pathetic leaders who must support leftist causes and war other wise are labeled racists. the locals speaking aout agains the migration are labeled racists, the leaders are unaccountable and spend like drunken sailers. in my 16 years here the place here is becoming vastly unrecognisable as it was once was

aside from japan who are still are about to be proud nationalistic and do not take in migration

 

[.Shotties.]

the education systems is a mess kids are becoming activists marxists instead of educated,

I have to ask; between the lack of critical thinking and the repeated writing errors, which education system from what time period are you from?

 

[mrherman]

I have to ask; between the lack of critical thinking and the repeated writing errors, which education system from what time period are you from?

finished high school in 2002 when government decided to close down a lot of the tafe colleges and every one went to uni. i spent the first 6 years of my life in East Germany.

the critical thinking comment im fascinated by this one as its a new term in society and is along the lines of marxist theory

 

[.Shotties.]

the critical thinking comment im fascinated by this one as its a new term in society and is along the lines of marxist theory

Our exchange was deleted, but I feel you should probably understand that critical thinking as in cognition is not the same as Critical Theory the philosophy as you seemed to think.

Me saying you lack critical thinking skills was based on you spewing a whole lot of talking points without being unaware of how a number of them contradict each other.

 

[barreness]

in Australia yes, but if it continues this way and become like other Western countries no. i value freedom and a healthy life over everything else. when yo u come from a communist country you view life differently that others do in the west.

today Western Europe, USA, NZ are stuffed & greatly unaffordable. Australia is lagging. face of those countries have changed over the past 15 years open borders, crime and theft are through the roof, they are slowly turning in to 3rd worlds, housing os unaffordable, the hospital and social programs are over loaded, the education systems is a mess kids are becoming activists marxists instead of educated, the gap between rich and poor is becoming greater we are led by weak corrupt pathetic leaders who must support leftist causes and war other wise are labeled racists. the locals speaking aout agains the migration are labeled racists, the leaders are unaccountable and spend like drunken sailers. in my 16 years here the place here is becoming vastly unrecognisable as it was once was

aside from japan who are still are about to be proud nationalistic and do not take in migration

Hmmmmmmmm, this would imply the education system is a lot better than I remember

But no, sadly no one is taught Marxist thought in primary/high school. Maybe some in a history degree, basically isn't touched in an economics degree

edit: Last time the Japanese got into their nationalism they killed ~20 million Chinese people, not exactly a great example

 

[barreness]

finished high school in 2002 when government decided to close down a lot of the tafe colleges and every one went to uni. i spent the first 6 years of my life in East Germany.

the critical thinking comment im fascinated by this one as its a new term in society and is along the lines of marxist theory

So your parents left just as reunification happened? not exactly proudly nationalistic of them

 

[Chief]

long queues and collapsing infrastructure

Describes a lot of places

Young men with shit lives who have been told they're privileged is the main issue, basically.

Who told you that?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Hmmmmmmmm, this would imply the education system is a lot better than I remember

But no, sadly no one is taught Marxist thought in primary/high school. Maybe some in a history degree, basically isn't touched in an economics degree

edit: Last time the Japanese got into their nationalism they killed ~20 million Chinese people, not exactly a great example

Well I find it hilarious that someone sees the gap between rich and poor increasing and concludes the problem is "Marxism".

 

[sr36]

China, India, Japan to name a few are very nationalistic countries.

the larger the influence the left has in western countries the bigger the basket case the west have become, debt levels crime, weak leaders, homeless ness, wars, drug problems, medical systems over loaded and education systems have become a joke

Yes China, India, Russia and the US - the 4 most powerful militaries - are becoming increasingly nationalistic and increasingly expansionary and are led by cults of personality that are turning the two that weren't very authoritarian into authoritarian states where the law is giving way to the power of the leader. The big European militaries could go down that path too. And worryingly the might is right sentiment is being screamed by those cultish leaders. It's looking like a re-birth of fascism. Likely to get ugly.

 

[nobbyiscool]

Gen Z men are meant to be conservative, so why aren’t the polls picking that up?

Polling says young and middle-aged men have not turned towards conservative politics in Australia as they did at the US election. So what’s going on?

www.theage.com.au

 

[carltonchelsea]

My son, 19 year old, wanted to join the ADF, second thoughts accruing, empathy and compassion building, proud dad here.
I’ll pay his way for a different future!
**** the military

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Young men with shit lives who have been told they're privileged is the main issue, basically.

I don't disagree with this, but the interesting part is that these young men with shit lives are choosing to focus on discussions of privilege, rather than genuinely seeking to understand why their lives are shit and who is fundamentally responsible for it. And often when they do the latter, they blame the wrong people for it. But this isn't all their fault, because a lot of money has been spent by a lot of powerful people to get young men to think and feel this way.

Firstly, media propaganda often misleads people as to what societal privilege even is, and what social progressives are asking to be done about it. They have painted it as a giant attack on straight white men and a desire by activists to hold them back. But in reality it's about how at the same income, wealth and education levels, it's still easier to be a man than a woman, white than non-white, straight than gay, and cis than trans. And it isn't something anyone needs to feel bad or ashamed about, but just to recognise that there's a long way to go before we truly see equality reflected in societal attitudes.

Secondly, media propaganda tells the men who do wonder why their lives are shit, that the fault lies with the people who are often on the lower end of societal privilege. Namely, women for not being willing to have sex with them, and non-white people for taking what apparently should be their jobs. And that without those groups holding them back, life for straight white men would be like the 1950s when they had it all. They tell straight white men that this is what they deserve, and if they vote for conservatives they can get it. That they're victims of a woke society and voting conservative is the only way to fight back.

But it's all a lie, a product being sold to them through advertising. The 1950s still sucked for white men in some ways, because there was no regard for their mental health, or the freedom to live outside of the stereotypical mould. And most women do not want to be shoved back into their 1950s straitjacket because it sucked for them even more. No man is necessarily owed sex or romance with a woman. Women now have their own agency and that's a good thing.

But most of all, the 1950s will never come again because capitalism won't let it. The real reasons young men with shit lives have shit lives, is because corporations moved jobs offshore, employers give little job security nowadays, property prices are through the roof and public services suffer because we don't collect enough tax revenue to fund them properly. Every one of these problems was created by corporations and wealthy people looking to make more money at the expense of the public.

These same wealthy people own the media and control conservative political parties. They do not want the people blaming them for making everything worse, because that leads to revolutions. So they ensure the people are divided and find a good scapegoat. It's easy to tell young men the problem is women and minorities to get the target off of the rich.

And posters like evolved2 will claim only the left have a victim mentality, when victimhood is exactly what the conservative political and media machine want young men to feel, to more easily control them and their votes. Every conservative accusation is also a confession.

 

[Seeds]

I don't disagree with this, but the interesting part is that these young men with shit lives are choosing to focus on discussions of privilege, rather than genuinely seeking to understand why their lives are shit and who is fundamentally responsible for it. And often when they do the latter, they blame the wrong people for it. But this isn't all their fault, because a lot of money has been spent by a lot of powerful people to get young men to think and feel this way.

Firstly, media propaganda often misleads people as to what societal privilege even is, and what social progressives are asking to be done about it. They have painted it as a giant attack on straight white men and a desire by activists to hold them back. But in reality it's about how at the same income, wealth and education levels, it's still easier to be a man than a woman, white than non-white, straight than gay, and cis than trans. And it isn't something anyone needs to feel bad or ashamed about, but just to recognise that there's a long way to go before we truly see equality reflected in societal attitudes.

Secondly, media propaganda tells the men who do wonder why their lives are shit, that the fault lies with the people who are often on the lower end of societal privilege. Namely, women for not being willing to have sex with them, and non-white people for taking what apparently should be their jobs. And that without those groups holding them back, life for straight white men would be like the 1950s when they had it all. They tell straight white men that this is what they deserve, and if they vote for conservatives they can get it. That they're victims of a woke society and voting conservative is the only way to fight back.

But it's all a lie, a product being sold to them through advertising. The 1950s still sucked for white men in some ways, because there was no regard for their mental health, or the freedom to live outside of the stereotypical mould. And most women do not want to be shoved back into their 1950s straitjacket because it sucked for them even more. No man is necessarily owed sex or romance with a woman. Women now have their own agency and that's a good thing.

But most of all, the 1950s will never come again because capitalism won't let it. The real reasons young men with shit lives have shit lives, is because corporations moved jobs offshore, employers give little job security nowadays, property prices are through the roof and public services suffer because we don't collect enough tax revenue to fund them properly. Every one of these problems was created by corporations and wealthy people looking to make more money at the expense of the public.

These same wealthy people own the media and control conservative political parties. They do not want the people blaming them for making everything worse, because that leads to revolutions. So they ensure the people are divided and find a good scapegoat. It's easy to tell young men the problem is women and minorities to get the target off of the rich.

And posters like evolved2 will claim only the left have a victim mentality, when victimhood is exactly what the conservative political and media machine want young men to feel, to more easily control them and their votes. Every conservative accusation is also a confession.

Jobs have moved offshore? Unemployment rates in the west are near all time lows and have been for a while. Can we stop pushing a myth that there is a lack of jobs and somehow foreigners taking those jobs are to blame for it. Its the same idea that drives MAGA and its false. Offshoring of manufacturing in the 60s to 80s hurt no man or females job prospects under 60 today. And it only benefitted under 60s because it greatly reduced the costs of goods thereby increasing the real wage every young person earns.

On housing you have a point. But not jobs.

 

[Coolangatta]

Jobs have moved offshore? Unemployment rates in the west are near all time lows and have been for a while. Can we stop pushing a myth that there is a lack of jobs and somehow foreigners taking those jobs are to blame for it. Its the same idea that drives MAGA and its false. Offshoring of manufacturing in the 60s to 80s hurt no man or females job prospects under 60 today. And it only benefitted under 60s because it greatly reduced the costs of goods thereby increasing the real wage every young person earns.

On housing you have a point. But not jobs.

Yep, loved his post but the manufacturing issue needs to be addressed, too. Specifically, it’s never going back to the levels it was in the 50s - 70s and anyone who promises it will like Trump is a charlatan.

And, nor should it. Technology changes the job market, and so it should.

Let’s just hope the power brokers don’t get rid of us if AI can do our jobs, but instead allow us to use AI as an assistant tool to make us more productive.

 

[Gralin]

Its not so much the offshoring of jobs that is the issue but what it allows companies to do

which is screw workers on pay to not have their job moved off shore

also for anyone that has had their industry stop because companies decided they could do it cheaper elsewhere it is rather shit

and they complain to their kids about how shit it was, and the conservative commentators complain about how unfair it is (while having no interest in doing anything about it, in fact they usually help it happen when in power)

it doesn't have to be true to be used at this point

 

[Pieshighflyer]

I don't disagree with this, but the interesting part is that these young men with shit lives are choosing to focus on discussions of privilege, rather than genuinely seeking to understand why their lives are shit and who is fundamentally responsible for it. And often when they do the latter, they blame the wrong people for it. But this isn't all their fault, because a lot of money has been spent by a lot of powerful people to get young men to think and feel this way.

Firstly, media propaganda often misleads people as to what societal privilege even is, and what social progressives are asking to be done about it. They have painted it as a giant attack on straight white men and a desire by activists to hold them back. But in reality it's about how at the same income, wealth and education levels, it's still easier to be a man than a woman, white than non-white, straight than gay, and cis than trans. And it isn't something anyone needs to feel bad or ashamed about, but just to recognise that there's a long way to go before we truly see equality reflected in societal attitudes.

Secondly, media propaganda tells the men who do wonder why their lives are shit, that the fault lies with the people who are often on the lower end of societal privilege. Namely, women for not being willing to have sex with them, and non-white people for taking what apparently should be their jobs. And that without those groups holding them back, life for straight white men would be like the 1950s when they had it all. They tell straight white men that this is what they deserve, and if they vote for conservatives they can get it. That they're victims of a woke society and voting conservative is the only way to fight back.

But it's all a lie, a product being sold to them through advertising. The 1950s still sucked for white men in some ways, because there was no regard for their mental health, or the freedom to live outside of the stereotypical mould. And most women do not want to be shoved back into their 1950s straitjacket because it sucked for them even more. No man is necessarily owed sex or romance with a woman. Women now have their own agency and that's a good thing.

But most of all, the 1950s will never come again because capitalism won't let it. The real reasons young men with shit lives have shit lives, is because corporations moved jobs offshore, employers give little job security nowadays, property prices are through the roof and public services suffer because we don't collect enough tax revenue to fund them properly. Every one of these problems was created by corporations and wealthy people looking to make more money at the expense of the public.

These same wealthy people own the media and control conservative political parties. They do not want the people blaming them for making everything worse, because that leads to revolutions. So they ensure the people are divided and find a good scapegoat. It's easy to tell young men the problem is women and minorities to get the target off of the rich.

And posters like evolved2 will claim only the left have a victim mentality, when victimhood is exactly what the conservative political and media machine want young men to feel, to more easily control them and their votes. Every conservative accusation is also a confession.

While I agree with virtually everything you said, the bolded is a massive sticking point. For young men in the 18-30 range in alot of urban areas, they're now behind in yearly income, and particularly educational outcomes.

That they're being told they have it easier than women when the data and their anecdotal experience begs to differ, is clearly going to be a point of friction.

It probably also doesn't help that when this is raised, there doesn't seem to be alot of sympathy for them ("well you've had it so well for so long", sins of the father type deal etc.). That'd push anyone away (please not this last point is anecdotal from what I've observed in online discourse).

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Jobs have moved offshore?

Manufacturing jobs have.

Unemployment rates in the west are near all time lows and have been for a while.

The jobs that have been created are different types, that require different skills. Manufacturing provided secure employment to a lot of people who didn't have a university education or trade qualifications. Nowadays it's harder to find good jobs without those things. Aged care could become one, if their working conditions don't get suppressed.

Can we stop pushing a myth that there is a lack of jobs and somehow foreigners taking those jobs are to blame for it.

I feel like you misunderstood my post altogether if you think that's what I was pushing.

Its the same idea that drives MAGA and its false. Offshoring of manufacturing in the 60s to 80s hurt no man or females job prospects under 60 today.

Again, it took away many prospects for unskilled workers to make a good living. People have adjusted by becoming more educated and qualified. There is still an effect on a particular class of people though, and particular communities, especially the children of those workers who were made redundant.

And it only benefitted under 60s because it greatly reduced the costs of goods thereby increasing the real wage every young person earns.

On housing you have a point. But not jobs.

Costs went down, and income inequality also rose. You could raise a family on a single income back then, whereas you can't afford to now.

Yep, loved his post but the manufacturing issue needs to be addressed, too. Specifically, it’s never going back to the levels it was in the 50s - 70s and anyone who promises it will like Trump is a charlatan.

I agree, I never suggested otherwise.

Let’s just hope the power brokers don’t get rid of us if AI can do our jobs, but instead allow us to use AI as an assistant tool to make us more productive.

I think that's a pretty forlorn hope for some roles. Just as manufacturing jobs were sent to the dustbin, so too will some basic admistrative jobs. Hopefully enough further jobs will be created, but if they aren't, I hope the AI productivity gains are taxed appropriately to help out ordinary people.

While I agree with virtually everything you said, the bolded is a massive sticking point. For young men in the 18-30 range in alot of urban areas, they're now behind in yearly income, and particularly educational outcomes.

Educational outcomes, I believe that. But I'd like to see evidence for young men being behind in yearly income. Are these for the same roles or different roles?

That they're being told they have it easier than women when the data and their anecdotal experience begs to differ, is clearly going to be a point of friction.

What data?

Many people think they're hard done by because they don't know what others have to go through. I wonder how many of these men have had a workplace superior demand they have sex with them to continue progressing in their career.

It probably also doesn't help that when this is raised, there doesn't seem to be alot of sympathy for them ("well you've had it so well for so long", sins of the father type deal etc.). That'd push anyone away (please not this last point is anecdotal from what I've observed in online discourse).

I've personally seen a lot of focus on men's mental health. And I don't think it's a paradise to be a man, particularly a poor one. I just think it's bunk to suggest they have it harder than women of the same income level. If these young men are demanding acknowledgement of their victim status while not acknowledging the issues other groups are subject to, then I'd consider them to be a bit self-absorbed.

 

[faible]

Educational outcomes, I believe that. But I'd like to see evidence for young men being behind in yearly income. Are these for the same roles or different roles?

https://www.canstar.com.au/savings-accounts/average-aussie-earn-save-owe/

It's a relatively minor gap at that stage of life since a large number would be more entry level roles but you can see in the 25 - 34 range (where most women would be having kids if they're wanting to do so) it starts to diverge quite substantially in favour of men and never really corrects.

I'm not sure if there's stats around that break-down earnings for women who don't have children / take time out of the workforce versus those who do, as that would be a more direct comparison with the average Australian male.