Why boycotting Israel matters

Feb 24, 2013
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The israel lobby in Australia is a myth.
Israel is a democracy in a sea of dictatorship s**t holes many of whom are our enemy militarily or otherwise like saudi sponsor ship of doubtful schools. Our history with israel goes back a hundred years if it want for diggers in the first world war no balfour agreement no israel and of course Australia's greatest general was jewish. In the second world war australian and jewish troop fought together including moshe dayan with the 7 division. These jewish soldiers formed the backbone of the IDF. Our ties with israel in business and academia are strong, the 50k thousand Jewish people who live in Australia punch way above their numbers in all sorts of service to this country.

In short you hysterical fantasies should be shown for what they are, comments that would be at home with the alt right.

LOL.
 

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The israel lobby in Australia is a myth.
Israel is a democracy in a sea of dictatorship s**t holes many of whom are our enemy militarily or otherwise like saudi sponsor ship of doubtful schools. Our history with israel goes back a hundred years if it want for diggers in the first world war no balfour agreement no israel and of course Australia's greatest general was jewish. In the second world war australian and jewish troop fought together including moshe dayan with the 7 division. These jewish soldiers formed the backbone of the IDF. Our ties with israel in business and academia are strong, the 50k thousand Jewish people who live in Australia punch way above their numbers in all sorts of service to this country.

In short you hysterical fantasies should be shown for what they are, comments that would be at home with the alt right.

How is any of that relevant t o wither there is a pro-Israel lobby in Australia. None of your post actually addresses the question.

There is. It's pretty effective. Anyone who criticises Israel in the media is subject to pressure. Sure there is a pro-palestinian lobby as well.
 
Aug 19, 2004
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There is. It's pretty effective. Anyone who criticises Israel in the media is subject to pressure. Sure there is a pro-palestinian lobby as well.

This is a load of nonsense, Conspiracy theory and NWO and all that stuff. Times of Israel reported this about Israel being an apartheid state. Even Israeli newspapers called Israel an apartheid state. How is that propaganda?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/joint-israel-west-bank-reality-is-an-apartheid-state/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-u-n-report-says-yes/?utm_term=.1dd3714fb314

https://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/1.671538

http://beta.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-makdisi-israel-apartheid-20140518-story.html

I can find more too. Yes the coverage is "biased" i agree with that, but it doesnt mean it completely ignores Palestinian side of the story. The pro-Palestinian articles completely shows one side of the story. US MSM is still better than RT and any of the propaganda sites.
 
Jun 11, 2007
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Anyone who thinks that the Israel lobby doesn't have influence over our media & foreign policy is kidding themselves.

The israel lobby in Australia is a myth.

Former N.S.W Premier and Australian Foreign minister Bob Carr had a bit to say on the subject back in 2014;

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-09/bob-carr-lashes-out-at-melbourne-pro-israel-lobby/5379074

Former foreign minister Bob Carr has hit out at what he calls the "pro-Israel lobby in Melbourne", saying it wielded "extraordinary influence" on Australia's policy during his time in Julia Gillard's cabinet.

Speaking to ABC's 7.30 program, Mr Carr said "extreme right-wing" pro-Israel lobbyists had an "unhealthy" influence on Australia's policy towards Israel and the Occupied Territories...
 
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Former N.S.W Premier and Australian Foreign minister Bob Carr had a bit to say on the subject back in 2014;

So he has made a claim, why doesnt he back it up with facts? how come no one else made such a claim? Ex ministers make ridiculous claims all the time.The Pro-Israel lobby might be true but to say it had such a heavy influence like influence on the PM is a bunch of nonsense.

https://theconversation.com/pro-israel-lobby-stronger-than-it-admits-weaker-than-carr-claims-25478
 
Jun 11, 2007
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So he has made a claim, why doesnt he back it up with facts? how come no one else made such a claim? Ex ministers make ridiculous claims all the time.The Pro-Israel lobby might be true but to say it had such a heavy influence like influence on the PM is a bunch of nonsense.

https://theconversation.com/pro-israel-lobby-stronger-than-it-admits-weaker-than-carr-claims-25478

The meat-and-bones of that article are;

Carr’s comments and the reactions inevitably raise the question: how much influence does the pro-Israel lobby (particularly AIJAC) wield in Australian politics?

They are organised, well-resourced and one of the most effective examples of diaspora advocacy in Australia. And, increasingly, one of the more prominent too.

Beyond that, it is difficult to measure. The little academic research conducted in this area has been inconclusive.

so, in essence, it's a bit of a shrug of the shoulders. How powerful is the pro-Israeli lobby in Australia? "Dunno, man..."
 
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The meat-and-bones of that article are;



so, in essence, it's a bit of a shrug of the shoulders. How powerful is the pro-Israeli lobby in Australia? "Dunno, man..."

Exactly that's what i said Carr's claims that it influenced the "government" which means influenced the PM has no evidence. It might be true but no reason for us to assume that it is, unless there is evidence.

But going back to the media, lot of Conspiracy theoriests like p35 are suggesting pro-Israeli lobbies not allowing anti-Israeli articles on Australian media. This is a myth, there's plenty of anti-Israeli articles out there, a simple 2 second google and i found these

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-25/saul-its-about-time-australia-put-pressure-on-israel/5623530

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...e/news-story/37408e58a2422b5cba41ef2dbc84e19c

There are many other articles which i cant post because its beyond a pay wall, for example google "objectivity doesn't come easy when reporting on Israel" , The Australia had that article, that had over 2,000 comments in the section. It's grossly misleading to suggest that pro-Israeli lobby is so strong in Australia that media doesn't report objectivity. Bias doesn't equal to propaganda. Propaganda is RT. MSM is biased.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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The meat-and-bones of that article are;

so, in essence, it's a bit of a shrug of the shoulders. How powerful is the pro-Israeli lobby in Australia? "Dunno, man..."

Here you go mate:

https://newmatilda.com/2014/04/15/israel-lobbys-goal-silence/

The Israel Lobby's Goal Is Silence

In the much discussed memoirs from his time as Foreign Minister, Bob Carr revealed the "extraordinary influence" that the Israeli lobby has on Australian foreign policy. His work details how former Prime Minister Julia Gillard would not criticise Israeli West Bank settlements for fear of the anger such criticism would provoke. "So we can’t even ‘express concern’ without complaint," wrote Carr.

For decades, the narrative about Palestinians being savage and uncivilised has been controlled by Israel — but under the influence of the world wide, non-violent, Boycott, Divestment Sanctions (BDS) movement to assert Palestinians’ rights to self-determination, that control is being challenged.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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Another one for your perusal here Sicko:

https://newmatilda.com/2017/02/24/benjamin-netanyahus-visit-to-australia-shames-us-all/

Netanyahu’s record of savagery
For almost two months in 2014, from early July to late August, Israel bombed Gaza. The destruction was immense. Whole suburbs were levelled and razed. Entire families were wiped out at a time, as 216 people were killed in attacks on their homes. Gaza’s infrastructure was devastated. Ambulances and medical personnel were bombed at least 24 times. Some 18 000 homes were damaged or destroyed. 100,000 Palestinians were displaced, out of a population of close to 2 million. Israel damaged 63 water facilities, and destroyed 23. The only power plant in Gaza was bombed four times. 2,251 Palestinians were killed, including 1462 civilians, and 551 children. Over 11 000 were injured. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinian children were left needing “direct and specialised” psycho-social support.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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And you might be interested in this one also Sicko:

https://newmatilda.com/2013/02/18/israels-public-image-takes-another-hit/

"But what makes this international intrigue all the more fascinating is not what most of the commentary is obsessing over — the details of Zygier’s life and how he ended up in a high security prison — but the ways in which young Jews are groomed by an Israeli intelligence service to commit acts of terrorism and subterfuge across the world under the guise of protecting national security. It is done with the consent of Western governments and intelligence services, including Australia’s.

New Matilda spoke to a former senior Australian ambassador who says that ASIO and ASIS work hand in glove with the Israeli government, including the assistance of grooming potential spies on Australian soil at universities such as Monash in Melbourne and military academies like Duntroon. Australia long ago outsourced much of its military and intelligence, as well as foreign affairs sovereignty, to Israel and America. "There’s little we [Australia] would not do to please them", my source says."
 
Jun 11, 2007
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There are many other articles which i cant post because its beyond a pay wall, for example google "objectivity doesn't come easy when reporting on Israel" , The Australia had that article, that had over 2,000 comments in the section. It's grossly misleading to suggest that pro-Israeli lobby is so strong in Australia that media doesn't report objectivity. Bias doesn't equal to propaganda. Propaganda is RT. MSM is biased.

On a side note, paywalls really bum me out. These websites make an obscene amount of moolah off advertising alone - why not help the public at large stay informed?

On lobbying in general - it's public relations, largely. I know in the United States there is that disturbing evangelical bent with regards to Israel, but in other markets like Australia where the tide is less evangelical and more secular the Israeli lobbying is more like P.R stuff. Of course they want to limit bad news. Of course they want to portray themselves as 'the good guys' with no morally ambiguious shade of grey whatsoever between them and the 'bad guys'.

In fairness the Palestinians spin stuff to their own advantage too.

But to pretend that NONE of this exists, that a pro-Israeli lobby couldn't possibly exist in this country - that's just being naive if not outright misleading.
 
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On a side note, paywalls really bum me out. These websites make an obscene amount of moolah off advertising alone - why not help the public at large stay informed?

On lobbying in general - it's public relations, largely. I know in the United States there is that disturbing evangelical bent with regards to Israel, but in other markets like Australia where the tide is less evangelical and more secular the Israeli lobbying is more like P.R stuff. Of course they want to limit bad news. Of course they want to portray themselves as 'the good guys' with no morally ambiguious shade of grey whatsoever between them and the 'bad guys'.

In fairness the Palestinians spin stuff to their own advantage too.

But to pretend that NONE of this exists, that a pro-Israeli lobby couldn't possibly exist in this country - that's just being naive if not outright misleading.

The bolded part is pretty much it.

I never say lobbying doesn't exist, but sensationist's like CT'ists tend to take it overboard, its like sky is falling and NWO is coming after you. If Carr is making such claims then the onus is on him to provide such evidence. Is there any government out there that doesn't side with lobbyists?

There plenty of anti-israel articles on Australian newspapers, but no Anti-Putin article on RT. LOL how is that possible?
 
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New Matilda spoke to a former senior Australian ambassador who says that ASIO and ASIS work hand in glove with the Israeli government, including the assistance of grooming potential spies on Australian soil at universities such as Monash in Melbourne and military academies like Duntroon. Australia long ago outsourced much of its military and intelligence, as well as foreign affairs sovereignty, to Israel and America. "There’s little we [Australia] would not do to please them", my source says."

Israel has 'observer status' in the FVEY (Five Eyes) intel network;

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4963869,00.html

Israel, as reported, is an observer in the American intelligence’s most intimate forum, which includes five countries: Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Britain and the United States. This group has full cooperation and signed agreements on anything that has to do with relaying and sharing information. Israel rightfully earned its status as an observer in this exclusive group. There are detailed agreements between Israel and the US on intelligence issues. There are no such agreements between Israel and Russia...

so this comes as no real surprise.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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Israel has 'observer status' in the FVEY (Five Eyes) intel network;

so this comes as no real surprise.

"Australia long ago outsourced much of its military and intelligence, as well as foreign affairs sovereignty, to Israel and America. "There’s little we [Australia] would not do to please them", my source says."

You, along with many in these forums Sicko, need to recognize that when it comes to Western intel & Security systems, procedures & policy....That Israel stands at the head of them.

When you see an action that then gets blown up out of all proportion by the press, who then argue & blow their bugles over the need for yet more tighter security measures, more policing & right-wing policy, then you can be in no doubt as to who exactly is behind it....Cui Bono!
 
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Israel has 'observer status' in the FVEY (Five Eyes) intel network;



so this comes as no real surprise.

Here is a question for you Sicko, since you are mostly impartial i expect the best answer from you:

How come Israeli newspapers like TimesofIsrael ,Haaretz and other local dailies which are supposed to controlled by MOSSAD according to several here, have several articles condemning Israel on Palestine and even going as far as calling it an apartheid state?
 
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Here is a question for you Sicko, since you are mostly impartial i expect the best answer from you:

How come Israeli newspapers like TimesofIsrael ,Haaretz and other local dailies which are supposed to controlled by MOSSAD according to several here, have several articles condemning Israel on Palestine and even going as far as calling it an apartheid state?

Because Israelis are not some solid monolithic bloc. They are as torn about the present and future direction of their nation as anyone. It is the moderates of this bloc and the moderates from the Palestinian side that hold the future in their hands - not the hardline religionists. Hamas is a dead end, as are the ultra-Zionists.

It's encouraging that there is criticism, for this can build a foundation for something new.
 
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Because Israelis are not some solid monolithic bloc. They are as torn about the present and future direction of their nation as anyone. It is the moderates of this bloc and the moderates from the Palestinian side that hold the future in their hands - not the hardline religionists. Hamas is a dead end, as are the ultra-Zionists.

It's encouraging that there is criticism, for this can build a foundation for something new.

So this means Israeli newspapers are fairly liberal? how come, why so many then criticises US MSM when Israeli newspapers are open to criticism? Surely US MSM can't be worse about Israeli propaganda than Israeli newspapers itself?
 
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So this means Israeli newspapers are fairly liberal? how come, why so many then criticises US MSM when Israeli newspapers are open to criticism? Surely US MSM can't be worse about Israeli propaganda than Israeli newspapers itself?

Some are, like Fox News for instance. But all the Murdoch media outlets operate with a right-wing agenda in mind, so you'd expect that. Others like CNN and MSNBC are more liberal.
 
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Russia Today is Fox News, except slanted towards Russia. Havily biased but worth a read when they cover things outside Russia. Sometimes you get good info that isn't being covered elsewhere.

Yes but they do protect Russia's interests though, how can you even get a fair coverage of Syria if its Pro-Russian though?
 

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Former N.S.W Premier and Australian Foreign minister Bob Carr had a bit to say on the subject back in 2014;
Bob Carr is hardly level headed on the subject he is the most anti israel member of the alp and thats saying something. He also leader of the recognise a palestine state at any cost brigade.

Jewish people have influence in 2 seats in victoria Danby jewish alp and wilson liberal. Yes perhaps there influence goes a bit further in other ways but i would suggest they have no where the influence of the greens. None of the major news outlets are particularly pro israel but fairfax, abc sbs verge on being anti-semitic
 
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