Why Carlton-Essendon is the biggest rivalry.

[Mags]

Essendon have no big rivalries.

Its in ya head just cause u think u are the best.

We should have a poll about this!

And easty stop trying to look smart, coz u arent smart ur just ****ing idiot.

Mags

 

[eastaugh36]

no rivalries mags ? well how come jealous collingwood povvos like you keep bagging us .....JUST FOR BEING THAT DAMN GOOD ! Who cares about rivalries, if we keep winning flags I dont care if we have big rivalries or not

 

[Mags]

Oh boy i cant wait for the day when Essendon are stuffed when they lose Sheedy and Hird, Llyod ,Long etc...

Then ya stuffed!

 

[BMD]

Dan,

This is essentially the same topic as the one started by Wally called rivalries.

Read the way Wally started his thread - nice and laidback. " This is what I'm thinking, everyone may not agree, but I'm curious to know what you think" (to paraphrase).

Compare that to the way you beat everyone over the head with endless statistics and pour scorn on everyone who disagrees with you, and insist on telling everyone why their genuinely held opinion is wrong and you might begin to understand why you have managed to infuriate everyone on this board at one time or another.

Rivalries are an emotional thing, the existence of which can't be proved by statistics.

For the record, as someone who supports none of the clubs involved, I think that Essendon-Carlton games hold more interest at the moment.

But I'm a neutral supporter so am not involved in the rivalry. If Carlton fans feel that their biggest rivalry is against Collingwood, then it is.

 

[eastaugh36]

mags, we will just replace them, unlike your lot we have decent recruting people, our whole team is very even and there would only be half of the collingwood team that would have a chance of playing regular senior footy at essendon !

 

[Shinboners]

Okay, something sensible about rivalries. Rivalries go beyond statistics, they are a matter of the heart. And as with anything to do with the heart, it is built up over the years. No doubt that the Carlton vs Essendon rivalry is a big one, but it's more due to recent one upmanship than any deep hatreds that run in the blood. As I've said before, the Carlton vs Collingwood rivalry still matters even if they're on opposite ends of the ladder. If Carlton were on top and Essendon were on the bottom, I doubt that Carlton would give Essendon much thought.

Since the showbag likes to use the English premier league to support his minor premiers theory, I will use the example of Manchester United. Their greatest rivals are Manchester City, Liverpool, and Leeds United. Their greatest challengers for silverware are Arsenal. City haven't challenged United for any trophy (apart for the one given out for footballing shiteness which City win every year) in about 20 years, and yet, the rivalry is ferocious. Liverpool and Leeds, whilst not as crap as City, haven't been challenging for honours of late, and yet United fans, and the fans of these clubs, circle the dates of their matches, such is their importance. Then there is Arsenal, who are United's only credible challengers in England of recent years and who always give United a run for their money....United vs Arsenal is often the best game of the season. Do United hate Arsenal in the same way they hate City and co.? No. It's the same in the AFL. Carlton vs Collingwood is like United vs City, Rangers v Celtic, Barcelona vs Real Madrid, AC Milan vs Internazionale. Carlton vs Essendon is more like United vs Arsenal. Face facts, in the end, Essendon hate Carlton more than Carlton hate you.

 

[Mags]

You wouldnt have a f*u*c*k*i*n*g clue, you could u use some more training!

F*u*c*k off dickhead I no longer require your assistance!

Mags

 

[eastaugh36]

grow up you uneducated twit

 

[Mobbs]

(Told yers no-one would notice my post)

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Hallowed be thy Roy

 

[Same Old's]

Originally posted by Bee:
Even after last years' GF win, their president still had to have a go at Carlton and the 99 prelim. That is why they hate Carlton so much, except they won't admit it.

Didn't "your" president have a go at Essendon during Carlton's press conference regarding their new sponsership deal.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Bee:
Dan,
I didn't say we don't hate you. WE DO! We just don't respect you, that's all. We hate Collingwood too, but we do respect them!
Who says we can't beat Essendon? The season hasn't started yet, I wouldn't start bleating if I was you!

Well, you might not respect Essendon, but I'm sure the Carlton team do. if you don't respect a team that gos 24-1, there is something wrong with you.

If the Carlton club don't resect Essendon, then that is proably why we did the hat-trick over that scum in 2000 ! Ha ha ha ha

Oh by the way, I do hate Carlton. I admit it. And I hated them long before 1999, I can tell you ! And Bee, if you respect Collingwood, there must be something wrong with you, babes ! What have they done over the last 10 years to earn respect.

And by the way peple, I'm not trying to elevate Essendon. I'm just stating that Ess-Calr is the biggest rivalry. They've both won 16 flags, so it's hardly a controversial statement is it ! Collingwood have just fallen behind the pack.

 

[Dan26]

I think the Aresenal-Manu rivalry is ferocious. They have been at each other for 100 years too !

Someone said on here that Essendon hate Carlton more than Carlton hate Essendon. I disagree vehemently. Carlton, especialy after 2000, hate Essendon. That Herald-Sun survey showed that Essendon is the most hared team by Carlton supporters.

In 1999, I really feel that Carlton supporters were more pleased to see us lose than they were to see their own team win! I hate Carlton, but I love my club more. I think Carlton people are so paranoid about Essendon being more successful, that they actually hate Essendon more than they like their own club. Essendon has a cult following which is more prone to barracking for the club, rather than hating the opposition.

There also seems to be a myth that Carlton-Essendon is a recent rivalry. ha ha, yeah right. Some people have no sense of history. The clubs have played in many famous mathes. There was the 1947 GF which Carlton won by a point. There was the 1949 GF, where John Colemans kicked his 100th goal in the last quarter of the Grand Final against Carlton in his first season. Thsi is one of the most famous Grand Finals of all time.

There was the 1951 H&A match where Coleman was suspended for striking Harry Casper of Carlton, and this cost Essendon a flag. There was the 1968 GF which the Blues won by 3 points in front of nearly 120,000 people. Then there was 1993,99 and 2000.

There was also 1981 at Princes park where Essendon won by a point afer two late goals from Neale Daniher. Kernahans out of bounds on the full in 1993, Carlton 2 point win in the Qualifying final of 1993, Lucas's goal from a silvagni stuff up in 1998, Greg Williams shoving the umpire in 1997 after another Essendon victory.

Carlton-Collingwood only really brewed big-time in 1970. At the end of 1965, Essendon had won 12 flags and Colingwood was on 13. Carlton were way back on 8, and were not as historically succesful as Essendon or Colingwood AT THE TIME.

But Carlton started to win in 1968, and by 1982 had overtaken Collingwood on premierships. Carlton-Collingwood only really began "BIG-TIME" in 1970. Essendon-Carlton has always been big. And nowadays, in the year 2001, it is the BIGGEST. I'm not saying it always was, but right now it is the biggest. It's is both a current AND historical rivalry. Not many rivalries encompass the present and the past !

I might add, that when Carlton announced their new sponsor last week, the one club John Elliot felt compelled to mention, was Essendon. I've been to plenty of Coll-Carl matches over the years, and there is not as much "spite" as there is between Essendon and Carlton.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The fact is as Shinner said, if Essendon were struggling, we wouldn't care about them but even with Collingwood struggling, we can't stand losing to them. It cuts deep. The Essendon thing is not wanting to give some arrogant supporters any ammunition whereas with Collingwood, it is more personal. For years while growing up, I remember that nobody wanted to be on the receiving end when Collingwood finally shed the Colliwobbles tag. It would be dishonourable to lose to them. Well, I'm happy to say that the Bombers had that distinction and took the pressure off the rest of us. If Collingwood were to make the finals in 2001 and played Carlton, we wouldn't know who Essendon was. We can have a temporary rivalry against the Bombers for lack of an alternative but we are waiting for the real show to begin.

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mens sana in corpore sano - a sound mind in a sound body

 

[Dan26]

There's no such thing as a temporary rivalry Especially between the two most successful clubs in the comp.

The way Carlton supporters here on bigfooty (not around the rest of Australia, just on bigfooty) try to dismiss Essendon, reeks of paranoia.

Next, they'll claim that they're not rivals with Richmond.

 

[The Dutchman!]

As much as I don't agree with Dan here (shock) ie: I think that Carl v Coll is a bigger rivalry - to suggest that Carl don't give a toss about Essendon is a joke - hence all the comment before and after the 99GF - they didn't really expect to beat North but they considered stopping the dons take the flag pretty adequate compensation.... and what about those comments from Glenny Boy Manton? And what about those famous cash incentives from Big Jack 10 years ago to finally beat Essendon about losing around 16 on the trot? Don't care about beating Essendon? my arse!

That said, I reckon West Coast fans hate us more than Carlton fans....

All the best
Dutchie


PS. Perfect tackle Fraser, just perfect. In return.... piss off you hack - slow, violent tax-avoiding footballers are so 1980s.... ah Carlton - the loyalty never ceases to amaze...

 

[Bee]

Originally posted by Same Old's:
Didn't "your" president have a go at Essendon during Carlton's press conference regarding their new sponsership deal.

Yes! But the difference was, we hadn't just won a premiership. I would have thought if you just won a premiership, nothing else would matter. Except of course of defeat that bit so hard, even a premiership can't wipe away the pain.

 

[Bee]

Originally posted by The Dutchman!:
PS. Perfect tackle Fraser, just perfect. In return.... piss off you hack - slow, violent tax-avoiding footballers are so 1980s.... ah Carlton - the loyalty never ceases to amaze...[/B]

Dutchman, that's not like you to strike such a low blow! Slow and violent? Wallis still couldn't break the tackle, could he?
Oh, or have I misunderstood? It was actually Wallis you were referring to with slow, violent jibe!

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by The Dutchman!:

slow, violent tax-avoiding footballers are so 1980s

You say that as if being slow and violent were a BAD thing....

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by Dan24:
There's no such thing as a temporary rivalry.

I think the sting has gone out of North vs Hawthorn. After two very long unbeaten streaks (one by Hawthorn, one by North), the rivalry of the 70s is looking pretty ratshit at the moment. Add to that most of the games recently have been decided by big margins.

A poll was done about 2 years ago (I forget who conducted it), asking who North supporters hated most and they answered Carlton. This was mainly to do with the attempted takeover of our club by Carlton in the 1980s, and had nothing to do with any on-field occurrences.
This just goes to show that rivalries are born from the heart and not the stats sheet.




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Listen through your eyes - See through your ears - Become one with the source
Light and sound are but one - in the heart of creation the rest is for you to discover

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by The Dutchman!:
PS. Perfect tackle Fraser, just perfect. In return.... piss off you hack - slow, violent tax-avoiding footballers are so 1980s....

We will be happy to swap a slow, incompetent, fat, McDonalds loving footballer for a slow, violent tax-avoiding footballer. Please ring Denis Pagan at the North Melbourne Football Club if this can be arranged.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by Darky:
I think the sting has gone out of North vs Hawthorn. After two very long unbeaten streaks (one by Hawthorn, one by North), the rivalry of the 70s is looking pretty ratshit at the moment. Add to that most of the games recently have been decided by big margins.

And to add to that, do Essendon hate Hawthorn with as much intensity these days as they did in the 80s?

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by Dim24:
I think the Aresenal-Manu rivalry is ferocious. They have been at each other for 100 years too !

Arsenal's main rival is Tottenham. The other thing is (and Bee will be familiar with this argument) that Arsenal hate Manchester United, while Manchester United still hate City, Liverpool, and Leeds more (even though it is Arsenal that challenge United for trophies). It's a bit reminiscent of this Essendon/Carlton/Collingwood thing.

If you care to look at any of the Manchester United (try www.redissue.co.uk for starters) and Arsenal websites or fanzines, you'll find that most of the hatred by United fans is directed at City, Liverpool, and Leeds while over at Arsenal, they're having a go at Spurs and Manchester United.

Go on, take a look. Everyone else can take a look as well, and you can all see the fallacy of McDan24's argument.

 

[The Dutchman!]

Yep Bee fair comment (blushing)

Got nothing against Fraser - top player for a lot of years - the comment was more about the way Carlton treated him in season 2000 after effectively stopping us even get a crack at flag 16 in 99 (note: the lack of assumptions there Rooboy, CIK, Shinner etc)... but I must admit on a re-read it looks more of an attack on him. So what if he was slow - he could play (unlike the player to whom Shinboner refers) and so what if he was violent... probably cost him his place on the list though that hit on Misiti in the wash up... as to the tax stuff... well... no comment.

I mean we're talking about Fraser here... not Greg Williams.... so apologies to the guy.

All the best
Dutchie

PS. I suppose that's what I get for reacting to a wind up aimed at Dan.

PPS. That said, I think Wallis, with his two premiership medals and solid 99 and 2000 seasons is pretty underrated by the entire footballing world (including at Essendon)...

PPPS. As an Arsenal (theres only ONE team in Norff Lundan) fan I concur that we HATE Tottenham a lot more than Man U - I mean everyone hates Man U (must be the new Arsenal on that score) but respects the core of the team. Don't know if Man U hate anyone anymore - they are basically untouchable at the moment....

 

[Bee]

That's okay Dutchman. I just get a bit touchy about Fraser. I should know by now not to take the bait.

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The BLUES. The Best in the Business.

 

[eastaugh36]

our president rightfully so had a swipe back at big nose, that prick mouths off all the time and for once we mouthed off back, whats wrong with that