Roast Why Derek?

[OniAu]

Hine cannot be operating as a Lone Ranger - surely he'll need the club's imprimatur to act / make decisions - so, questions are:

1. Does the Club / Hine/ FD / List mngt c'ttee etc understand how the trade rules, points, academy stuff etc etc work? Answer has to be Yes, because if the ans is No, might as well pack up now.

2. Does the Club / Hine etc apply the rules, points etc to the best advantage of the Club? Only those who sit in on list mngt, game plan, player development mtgs etc would really know the answer to that.

3. Does the Club / Hine etc select the best players? - (need to distinguish between trading and drafting). Seems to fair to say we've had a few misses recently in both trading and drafting.

If posters need to bag Hine mercilessly, then you're also bagging the FD (putting aside Gubby's drive by shooting of last year). Other than pointing out the player selections that patently didn't work, much of the criticism directed at Hine (therefore the club) is probably off target because it's a complex business and we don't have the inside info.

People need to be held accountable , one mess up is fine , multiple stuff ups and you need to start owning your decisions. Theres no hiding from how poor our trade/draft seasons have been the last few years. Even as far back as Kennedy and Broomhead picks. Who takes responsibility if the head or recruiting doesn't ? Saying we don't have inside info is one thing, seeing the players we pick and have sitting in the vfl is another.

 

[TKiL]

People need to be held accountable , one mess up is fine , multiple stuff ups and you need to start owning your decisions. Theres no hiding from how poor our trade/draft seasons have been the last few years. Even as far back as Kennedy and Broomhead picks. Who takes responsibility if the head or recruiting doesn't ? Saying we don't have inside info is one thing, seeing the players we pick and have sitting in the vfl is another.

I made the point - "Seems to fair to say we've had a few misses recently in both trading and drafting." On this specific issue - I think we agree. Is it 100% Hine's fault? Don't know - eg. think Mayne sits somewhere with Buckley who wanted him and Gubby who sorted the deal / contract.

 

[Kings_Gambit]

I must admit I said WTF a few times in anger after hearing about this trade, but then thought what do I know about this Murray kid. We can judge this trade in a year or two. What concerns me is that no one is owning the Mayne deal. Is there no accountability in the club?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I must admit I said WTF a few times in anger after hearing about this trade, but then thought what do I know about this Murray kid.

We know Sydney did not initially consider him worthy of a senior list spot, but came around to the idea he was worth our second round pick.

 

[FIGJAM]

I'm still certain that we do know the rules, it;s just we disagree with the amount of uncertainty pertaining to where acadamey / F&S picks go next year, but good to see Dekka fighting back!

“Everyone can smash it (taking Murray). But they don’t know him. They’ve got no understanding of the player or the rules,” Hine said.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/co...y/news-story/82e293eb55f04e87bbad1f39ac9c1ffb

 

[TKiL]

I'm still certain that we do know the rules, it;s just we disagree with the amount of uncertainty pertaining to where acadamey / F&S picks go next year, but good to see Dekka fighting back! “Everyone can smash it (taking Murray). "But they don’t know him. They’ve got no understanding of the player or the rules,” Hine said."
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/co...y/news-story/82e293eb55f04e87bbad1f39ac9c1ffb

Won't go down well with some here

 

[CFC2010]

Won't go down well with some here

Thanks Sandra Sully

 

[TKiL]

Thanks Sandra Sully

thanks - wish I earned similar $$$ to her

 

[northpie]

Won't go down well with some here

Home is certainly right that we don't know the rules like he does. Buy Sydney list management have a far superior record to us, and they didn't consider him worthy of a senior list spot . I k ow who I would back
Hines team has been bent over on this trade

 

[TKiL]

Home is certainly right that we don't know the rules like he does. Buy Sydney list management have a far superior record to us, and they didn't consider him worthy of a senior list spot . I k ow who I would back. Hines team has been bent over on this trade

Could be the case, but the value of Murray to Sydney will not be identical to the (perceived) value of Murray to Pies.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

How many disgruntled supporters?

Its about 50 or so from my observations . Out of a Membership and Supporter base of probably 500,000

 

[Baltimore Jack]

COLLINGWOOD: B-
GAINED: Sam Murray
LOST: Nil
DRAFT PICKS: 6, 38, 56, 61, 70, 80, 98

The Pies didn’t make many waves at all this trade period, but in saying that, they didn’t pull another Chris Mayne, so I guess this should be considered a win in comparison. The only shake they made was trading for Sam Murray, a rookie-listed Sydney defender with a raking left foot. With late picks shuffled and it all getting a bit murky, Collingwood essentially parted ways with a future second-round pick. Personally, I think that is a hell of a lot for an untried kid, but those in the know believe you won’t find a kid like him around that pick this year. The jury’s still out for me and I would have seriously liked Collingwood to address their forward line issues with Josh Schache. It is pretty evident the Pies are putting together a war chest for Gold Coast’s Tom Lynch next year… good luck to them.

http://www.footyology.com.au/the-trades-did-your-club-pass-or-fail-trade-period-test/

 

[TKiL]

Its about 50 or so from my observations . Out of a Membership and Supporter base of probably 500,000

= 0.01% disgruntled supporters - a little on the optimistic side I would suggest.

 

[Quicky]

I must admit I said WTF a few times in anger after hearing about this trade, but then thought what do I know about this Murray kid. We can judge this trade in a year or two. What concerns me is that no one is owning the Mayne deal. Is there no accountability in the club?

I'm not sure I agree. Gubby was responsible for Mayne. He is gone and won't come back. The board for the first time I can remember are standing up to Ed, it seems as a direct reaction to the Gubby mess. And Hine has been demoted and Ned Guy will be our new list manager. I'd say people have been held accountable.

 

[Quicky]

I'm still certain that we do know the rules, it;s just we disagree with the amount of uncertainty pertaining to where acadamey / F&S picks go next year, but good to see Dekka fighting back!

“Everyone can smash it (taking Murray). But they don’t know him. They’ve got no understanding of the player or the rules,” Hine said.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/co...y/news-story/82e293eb55f04e87bbad1f39ac9c1ffb

I've never heard Hine speak like that. Sounds like a guy who is under pressure.

 

[jmac70]

I've never heard Hine speak like that. Sounds like a guy who is under pressure.

Maybe he's sick of keyboard warriors

 

[Quicky]

Maybe he's sick of keyboard warriors

I don't think he should have commented. It can only end badly and add fuel to the fire. Particularly when he's wrong. I think partypie post has demonstrated that pretty clearly.

 

[jmac70]

I don't think he should have commented. It can only end badly and add fuel to the fire. Particularly when he's wrong. I think partypie post has demonstrated that pretty clearly.

I thought people wanted more communication.

 

[Quicky]

I haven't enjoyed the posts questioning Hines integrity. They're pretty ordinary comments in my view.

That said I reckon Hine should be questioned on the deal. We should have been able to do it for a much better price. It has been a weakness of our last two trade periods that we have overpaid on players coming in and got poor value for those going out.

But I don't question Hines eye for talent. If he was excited by Murray I reckon we should be too. With Murray's playing attributes, if he kicks on for us, he'll add a lot to the team and it's balance.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

I've never heard Hine speak like that. Sounds like a guy who is under pressure.

And rightfully so.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I haven't enjoyed the posts questioning Hines integrity. They're pretty ordinary comments in my view.

That said I reckon Hine should be questioned on the deal. We should have been able to do it for a much better price. It has been a weakness of our last two trade periods that we have overpaid on players coming in and got poor value for those going out.

But I don't question Hines eye for talent. If he was excited by Murray I reckon we should be too. With Murray's playing attributes, if he kicks on for us, he'll add a lot to the team and it's balance.

Send another question in to the Forum, Hine is usually there and answers questions

 

[sr36]

We know Sydney did not initially consider him worthy of a senior list spot, but came around to the idea he was worth our second round pick.

We don't know that at all. If we believe reports that next year you won't have to upgrade rookies in place of senior list guys, there is no real difference between being on the rookie list and senior list. No benefit to upgrading and thus clubs won't upgrade unless they have to - 3 years are up. All we know is that they wanted to keep him on the list and thus we had to pay some price for him. Only Sydney know how little the price they would have accepted is.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

We don't know that at all. If we believe reports that next year you won't have to upgrade rookies in place of senior list guys, there is no real difference between being on the rookie list and senior list. No benefit to upgrading and thus clubs won't upgrade unless they have to - 3 years are up. All we know is that they wanted to keep him on the list and thus we had to pay some price for him. Only Sydney know how little the price they would have accepted is.

I was certain I read that their intention was to keep him on the rookie list...

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

I don't think he should have commented. It can only end badly and add fuel to the fire. Particularly when he's wrong. I think partypie post has demonstrated that pretty clearly.

I enjoyed PP's post. Pretty thorough however he did ask for suggestions if he missed something.
There will be the question "What if he missed something that Hine and co didn't?" Perhaps the answer will come at this time next year.

 

[sr36]

I was certain I read that their intention was to keep him on the rookie list...

Yes. I'm just suggesting that with next year's supposed rule change, whereby rookies don't have to be elevated to play senior footy, there is effectively no difference between someone being on the rookie or senior list. Clubs and rookies have no reason for an elevation - unless the guy has done his 3 years and can't remain on the rookie list. The disadvantage of elevation is that the club will effectively turn a national draft choice into a significantly later rookie draft choice. If this rule change is true, expect all clubs to go into the season with 40 on the senior list, unlike the 38/39 that we've previously aimed for. Expect rookies to not be elevated until they've done their full time on the rookie list. Thus if Sydney wanted to keep Murray on their rookie list rather than elevating him, it says nothing about how they rate him, other than they intended to keep him.