Why didnt we take a key defender?

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RilesMacca

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Apr 4, 2021
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Its a thought that is still buzzing in my mind and I cant get it out, why didn't we take a key defender in the draft? I know we have paddy McCartin, Reid and Amartey that can have spells there, but they're not really long term solutions I feel. It just feels like we are missing that one more key defender. Rampe at full back just doesn't cut the mustard anymore, he feels so much better as a lockdown sweeping defender in a pocket. Wish we could've taken a Van Rooyen or Alleer to have a future pair up with McCartin. Like I mean we could've taken a Charlie Dean at one of our later picks that we skipped, and he was rated as a decent key back. What are your fellas thoughts on it, because I am bloody stumped on it.
 
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RilesMacca

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Apr 4, 2021
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I asked this in the draft thread a few days ago, and Grand Uncle Horace suggested that the lockdown may have had an effect on the development of talls. Ticky009 mentioned that Beatson said he didn't rate the talls in the draft.

Two possible answers there.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking what could be the reason why. It just feels like our defence is don't get me wrong is great and quite solid at times, but there are times where we can lose games because we were beat by their key forwards because of players like fox and rampe on them. It is not a disaster, I am sure the defence will be great throughout 2022, it just feels like a concern. So lets hope Paddy and Reid can have a crack down there.
 

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hairy biker

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I think it's an easy answer.
We didn't rate any of the defenders available at our picks.
Secondly next year's draft is seen as having more and better talls available (although not a great deal of exposed form).
And who knows maybe we have identified a free agent who may be on the market.

Of course actually getting a free agent to join us is easier said than done and with regard to next year's draft all clubs will be aware of the quality and depth of the KPPs, so plenty of competition for the best (having two first rounders may help).

I was keen on Jack Williams late in the draft, who I think could play both ends.
However very few talls were taken later in the draft; Andrew, Amiss (fwd), Gibcus all went in the top 10, Alleer at 15, JVR (19), Bazzo (37) and Williams at 57. (And of course Darcy at F/S).
Charlie Dean went at pick 2 in the rookie draft, but other than a few players more suited to the flanks, there really wasn't great depth.

The other point Beatson made was he was always keen to know who the talls matched up on so that he could assess performance against their opponent(s).
Little opportunity of that outside of WA in 2021.

We really do need to address the issue at both ends in the near future, I hope we haven't missed an opportunity this draft.
 
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Ed_Gein

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Yeah, that's what I was thinking what could be the reason why. It just feels like our defence is don't get me wrong is great and quite solid at times, but there are times where we can lose games because we were beat by their key forwards because of players like fox and rampe on them. It is not a disaster, I am sure the defence will be great throughout 2022, it just feels like a concern. So lets hope Paddy and Reid can have a crack down there.

You are right, although I'm not sure on the chances of a KPD type player taken late in the draft lining up in Rd 1 the following year if we had taken one. They seem to me like they take a bit extra to develop, and the one's that are good enough to play straight away tend to go much earlier in draft (I'm probably going to get examples of being wrong here :D ). Like hairy biker mentioned, a free agent could be an option as a stop-gap.
 

anotherletdown

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I wish we had of taken Bazzo...

I think exposed form was the issue. Hard to judge credentials when they dont match up against the best regularly. 100% we'll target KPD in the mid season draft... if we have the list spot
 

Banyo Bloods

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If we win more in the middle there is less reliance on the defence to generate our scores. Maybe someone is being groomed for a full time role (p McCartin) but yeah seems like a need there and maybe we are chipping away at a premiership tilt and two years we have a full compliment adding that key defender next year.
 

Kirkswan

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Its a thought that is still buzzing in my mind and I cant get it out, why didn't we take a key defender in the draft? I know we have paddy McCartin, Reid and Amartey that can have spells there, but they're not really long term solutions I feel. It just feels like we are missing that one more key defender. Rampe at full back just doesn't cut the mustard anymore, he feels so much better as a lockdown sweeping defender in a pocket. Wish we could've taken a Van Rooyen or Alleer to have a future pair up with McCartin. Like I mean we could've taken a Charlie Dean at one of our later picks that we skipped, and he was rated as a decent key back. What are your fellas thoughts on it, because I am bloody stumped on it.
We didn't rate them...

Better to take another mid to improve our depth and create competition for spots, than to take a defender we think won't make it or who is going home in 2 years time...
 

momentbymoment

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Its a thought that is still buzzing in my mind and I cant get it out, why didn't we take a key defender in the draft? I know we have paddy McCartin, Reid and Amartey that can have spells there, but they're not really long term solutions I feel. It just feels like we are missing that one more key defender. Rampe at full back just doesn't cut the mustard anymore, he feels so much better as a lockdown sweeping defender in a pocket. Wish we could've taken a Van Rooyen or Alleer to have a future pair up with McCartin. Like I mean we could've taken a Charlie Dean at one of our later picks that we skipped, and he was rated as a decent key back. What are your fellas thoughts on it, because I am bloody stumped on it.
I think (hope) that Paddy does become a long term solution. He is the right age, has the right pedigree and fits with the Swans way - finding defenders in the strangest places..

I also think Reid will be useful this year - in my opinion, he is a far better defender than a forward and really should have spent his career back there.
 

robbieando

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It's no good simply saying "we don't rate" anyone .
We need to find one asap.

On the flip side, it's not as simple as saying "we need to find one"

We needed one that could play next year and fits in the requirement of what the club is looking for in a Key Defender and no option presented itself in the draft was capable of doing just that in the club's eyes.

There is no point drafting a player just because they are a Key Defender, to then put two years plus years into them only to find out they are completely unsuitable to what the team requires from them when thrown in the deep end.
 

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Swansujelly

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if Bazzo was still there at 40 we would've taken him but he went a few picks prior. Good thing too, because the Warner fairytale happened.
 

BloodySwan

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Draft on talent, recruit on need. Just don't panic and grab a key defender who isn't actually any good.

If I'm a key defender not getting enough game time next season I'm asking for a trade to the Swans, just how we got Ladhams
 

BloodySwan

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We also will take McCartin before the season starts and can take someone else should someone go down injured or during the midseason draft.
 

WillHayward

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On the flip side, it's not as simple as saying "we need to find one"

We needed one that could play next year and fits in the requirement of what the club is looking for in a Key Defender and no option presented itself in the draft was capable of doing just that in the club's eyes.

There is no point drafting a player just because they are a Key Defender, to then put two years plus years into them only to find out they are completely unsuitable to what the team requires from them when thrown in the deep end.
Yep but nobody "rated" Sam Collins and he won a B and F.

I think players are out there. Maybe we look in the state leagues.

We haven't had a crack since Brand and that was a dodgy selection.
So it's not like Beatson is 100% accurate all the time.

The reality is we are going to be exposed down back and Rampe can no longer be relied on to perform his miracles anymore.

Most teams now have at least one, if not to fwds over 195cm tall.
 
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tombomb

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I wonder if one of Amartey or McLean are moved exclusively to the backline this preseason.

It's hard to see how either of them get consistent games next year unless significant injuries or McDonald doesn't come on. Both of which are possible, but we still have Reid as backup.
 

RilesMacca

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Does anyone know or reckon if we rated Leek Alleer and would've we taken him if we could? I still prefer having ladhams over him.
 

Callipygian

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I agree with many of the comments here. KB's comments suggest that we just didn't rate the KPPs available except for those taken before our first pick. I'm also curious whether we might have taken Alleer if he had been available at our pick.

Apart from the options already suggested (and it's clear we had decided not to draft a KPP when we extended Reid and committed to taking Paddy) it also seems a vote of confidence in our existing talls including Gould and O'Connor. O'Connor hasn't had much chance to play but has been extended twice and that shows some optimism he can make it. With Gould, Pyke mentioned about 2/3 of the way through the season that Gould was close to debuting and was likely to get a game in the coming weeks (although that didn't ultimately happen).

Melican keeps maturing and that's important with KPPs. Reg and Teddy both took a long time before they hit their prime. I think he's got two more years to prove his worth.

My other solution to this issue is to target Lukosius in the next trade period. We've got two first rounders and plenty of cap space to make a serious play for him. I think he'd be an incredible addition with his brilliant kicking and ability to play both ends.
 

BloodySwan

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Does anyone know or reckon if we rated Leek Alleer and would've we taken him if we could? I still prefer having ladhams over him.
I'm pretty sure even the Giants said they reached for Aleer and they didn't need another midfielder but did need a defender.
 

Swansujelly

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Would be handy if Gould could slot into a Mills type role down back. I was stoked when we picked him, hopefully he has gotten fit enough, but has been taking his sweet time. Only saw O’Conner in a couple of ressies games, but I liked what I saw, quite bullish on him.
 

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