Why didnt we take a key defender?

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LukeParkerno1

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"Complete misrepresentation"
Repeats several of my points without addressing the flaws.

Anyway, unless we're looking at taking an extra player in the supplementary period with Naismith to LTI, it's a moot point and we'll see if the club redeem themselves.

You wanted us to take upwards of 2 defenders in 3 picks when none were near best available. The only really good one was the one the Tigers selected and he went top 10.

As Darymple said on his post draft interview you can never have too many mids it creates pressure for spots.
 

Bloods86

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You wanted us to take upwards of 2 defenders in 3 picks when none were near best available. The only really good one was the one the Tigers selected and he went top 10.

As Darymple said on his post draft interview you can never have too many mids it creates pressure for spots.

Uh I didn't. I might have said I'd be ok with us taking 2 a few times, but in the lead up to the draft I was saying 1 KPD. I was going on about Wilmot, Chesser at our first potentially and then Taylor, Sheldrick, Warner with one of our others if you were paying attention. We had two picks where potential KPDs were rated around best available (JVR at our 1st, Bazzo at our 2nd). They both went very shortly after. Obviously the club thought differently, but your definitions of 'best available' or who was nowhere near are quite off, or at least unjustified.
 

melbournehammer

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You wanted us to take upwards of 2 defenders in 3 picks when none were near best available. The only really good one was the one the Tigers selected and he went top 10.

As Darymple said on his post draft interview you can never have too many mids it creates pressure for spots.


That is the answer to a different question. We have said you cant have too many mids because we selected mids. Its the justification.

The real question remains what strategy do we have for developing defenders. It really is all eggs into the Paddy Mccartin basket. Which worries me greatly because what he showed as a forward was an inability to get separation - god help us if he cant keep touch because we already know melican cant.
 

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LukeParkerno1

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Uh I didn't. I might have said I'd be ok with us taking 2 a few times, but in the lead up to the draft I was saying 1 KPD. I was going on about Wilmot, Chesser at our first potentially and then Taylor, Sheldrick, Warner with one of our others if you were paying attention. We had two picks where potential KPDs were rated around best available (JVR at our 1st, Bazzo at our 2nd). They both went very shortly after. Obviously the club thought differently, but your definitions of 'best available' or who was nowhere near are quite off, or at least unjustified.

JVR whilst being a swing man is basically a forward who has played back. I’m not surprised we didn’t take him. Bazzo I wasn’t a fan of in fact apart from Gibcus not sure there was one I really rated.
Therefore was happy to take mids.
 

LukeParkerno1

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That is the answer to a different question. We have said you cant have too many mids because we selected mids. Its the justification.

The real question remains what strategy do we have for developing defenders. It really is all eggs into the Paddy Mccartin basket. Which worries me greatly because what he showed as a forward was an inability to get separation - god help us if he cant keep touch because we already know melican cant.

The strategy might be target one through a trade or the 2022 draft which is stacked for talls. We have upwards of 3 top 20 picks in next years draft including our F1
 

Superstar swan

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I have a theory about defenders and how they are drafted going forward.

With the emergence of the new 200cm + key forwards in the league like McKay, king x 2 , 2m Peter, Darcy etc I think we will and already have seen a shift into how players are developed in junior ranks. In years gone by, if you were up around that 200cm mark , it was almost certain you would have played your whole junior career as a ruck. Expected to compete at hitouts and provide a long option up the ground and not much else.

The emergence of the above mentioned players has seen the expectation of a 200cm player go from a slow cumbersome ruck to an incredibly athletic and skilled key forward. This shift I think will now see a lot of these giants plying their trade as forwards as they progress through the ranks. The flip side of this is that there will be very few players of similar size coming up in the jrs being played as defenders because their more potent and a bigger weapon up the ground.

My prediction is that there will be alot less kpp defenders drafted. We will see more “general” defenders being drafted. The 194cm defenders like van rooyen taken this year are borderline too small to play on the new generation forward. Until these 200cm types are more readily available I think the best coarse of action into bolstering the key defender ranks is finding the old failed forward on someone’s list. Drafting players to combat the mckays and kings of the world is nearly impossible
 

WillHayward

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WillHayward

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I have a theory about defenders and how they are drafted going forward.

With the emergence of the new 200cm + key forwards in the league like McKay, king x 2 , 2m Peter, Darcy etc I think we will and already have seen a shift into how players are developed in junior ranks. In years gone by, if you were up around that 200cm mark , it was almost certain you would have played your whole junior career as a ruck. Expected to compete at hitouts and provide a long option up the ground and not much else.

The emergence of the above mentioned players has seen the expectation of a 200cm player go from a slow cumbersome ruck to an incredibly athletic and skilled key forward. This shift I think will now see a lot of these giants plying their trade as forwards as they progress through the ranks. The flip side of this is that there will be very few players of similar size coming up in the jrs being played as defenders because their more potent and a bigger weapon up the ground.

My prediction is that there will be alot less kpp defenders drafted. We will see more “general” defenders being drafted. The 194cm defenders like van rooyen taken this year are borderline too small to play on the new generation forward. Until these 200cm types are more readily available I think the best coarse of action into bolstering the key defender ranks is finding the old failed forward on someone’s list. Drafting players to combat the mckays and kings of the world is nearly impossible
It's a fair point for sure.

I wonder if we try Amartey down back?
 

Bloods86

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JVR whilst being a swing man is basically a forward who has played back. I’m not surprised we didn’t take him. Bazzo I wasn’t a fan of in fact apart from Gibcus not sure there was one I really rated.
Therefore was happy to take mids.
I know what you think. But then you say there were no KPDs or potential KPDs (given most of our key defenders in recent history are former forwards) rated around our picks, which is just not true.

You can just prefer we took mids, and we'll just disagree.
 

LukeParkerno1

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I know what you think. But then you say there were no KPDs or potential KPDs (given most of our key defenders in recent history are former forwards) rated around our picks, which is just not true.

You can just prefer we took mids, and we'll just disagree.

The only one I wanted really was Gibcus and if we kept pick 12 might have been able to trade up. JVR would have been fine but that only if we saw him as a defender. The rest meh rather take the mids.
 

Superstar swan

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It has been tried in reserves when there were injury problems a year or two back. I think the general consensus is never again.

Fair enough however I wouldn’t be opposed to trying it at senior level. With better defensive structures and leadership out there he may perform better. Also how many times for some unknown reason do we see players defy logic and perform better in certain roles at senior level than they do at the magpie.

At this point anything is worth a shot. Mccartin is going to be a bonafide star back there for the next 10 years. We need another with rampe on his last legs, also the less said about Melican imo the better
 

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SeanM

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To be honest I thought we would take Bazzo with our 2nd pick just to cover a list need. But I assume the club must have really liked Roberts. (I have not seen enough of either of them to have an opinion). Maybe we would have considered him if available with our 3rd. But I loved the emotion of the Warner pick.

In the short term (2022) it gives guys like Melican, McCartin, Fox, CoR, Gould and O'Connor an opportunity to cement a spot. Either as one of the key defenders or maybe as a likely successor to Rampe.

Beyond 2022 if it is still a list weakness. Then the club probably has to use its first round picks to draft in a young KPD or trade for one.
 

Wolftone

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We're currently at 43/44 players. With Paddy that's 44 - which is the maximum. We surely move Naismith to the LTI and can pick another player up. Also if we have any early retirements, that'll be another spot.
Next year there will be two more players out of contract that we will probably move on, Taylor & Clarke. Then if Ronke does not come up he will also be moved on. Naismith will probably bow out. Reid, Bud and Kennedy retire. So at least 5 if not 6 places on the list.

We do need a developing tall defender, if we take Paddy, as that will give us time. We can also look to the academy for talent once again.

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Kiama Chris

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Next year there will be two more players out of contract that we will probably move on, Taylor & Clarke. Then if Ronke does not come up he will also be moved on. Naismith will probably bow out. Reid, Bud and Kennedy retire. So at least 5 if not 6 places on the list.

We do need a developing tall defender, if we take Paddy, as that will give us time. We can also look to the academy for talent once again.

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Rankin might be viewed as a potential replacement for Ronke.
 

Wolftone

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Or small defender. Seems to be versatile at either end. Lots of competition for smalls at the Fwd end with Papley, Wicks, Gulden, Sheather, Ronke and even Campbell and then add in Rankin.
I would not include Sheather in there. He is a mid rather than small forward. What's more he fits the medium size in Heeney, Will and resting players like Mills & Kennedy.

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Kiama Chris

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I would not include Sheather in there. He is a mid rather than small forward. What's more he fits the medium size in Heeney, Will and resting players like Mills & Kennedy.

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Not disagreeing at all but I think Sheather is pretty brutal in his defence. Might see him as a potential successor to Wicks. Coming along well.
 

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