Why do people care more about the muslims in gaza than those being persecuted elsewhere?

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clogged said:
So you have to go back to 1958, a full 11 years before the handover, when the intervening years and US policy (note that on his meeting with JFK in 1963 he made no such objection to West Papua being handed to Indonesia) made it such that West Papua became the possession of Indonesia.

And yet by some amazing sleight of hand, Gough Whitlam was responsible for the decision.

You are full of s**t.
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Was he responsible for the UN decision? No. Was he responsible for being Suharto's best mate and letting him slaughter hundreds of thousands in the years afterwards? Yes.

The original quote I was replying to was discussing west papuans still being killed today. Not in 1962. If you can't accept that Whitlam is largely responsible for Indonesia's belligerence than you are just one-eyed. It is widely acknowledged as being the biggest failure of his administration. Fraser was not much better though, don't get me wrong. But at least he didn't cover up Indonesian military killing Australian citizens so as not to embarrass his best mate Suharto, that was Whitlam.

If you remember, it was you who singled out this 1 aspect (that Calwell and Whitlam disagreed) and asked me to prove it. I did prove it, and now you're claiming this was my argument from the start. It wasn't. You are so angry at being wrong you've forgotten what the point of your argument was.
 
pokerspiv said:
Was he responsible for the UN decision? No. Was he responsible for being Suharto's best mate and letting him slaughter hundreds of thousands in the years afterwards? Yes.
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Whitlam was only power three years and not part of the decision to grant West Papua to the Indonesians. Whether he was his best mate or not, nearly 40 years have passed and no Australian government since has bothered to pull the Indonesians up. It would seem Australia in general has had no interest in the plight of West Papuans, and in spite of some politicians objections in the 50s (which had more to do with fears around Europe withdrawing its sphere of interest than care for the indigenous peoples of the region) has since abandoned any desire for West Papua to be independent.

It is no single person's responsibility for what is going on there, except perhaps those corrupt Javanese in Jakarta.
 

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Gough said:
If you want to give Whitlam a back hander, his Timor Leste legacy leaves a little to be desired.
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Yeah, that's kind of the point. Obviously Timor Leste wasn't the only thing happening at the time. Whitlams foreign policy was "let Suharto do what the * he wants".
 
clogged said:
Whitlam was only power three years and not part of the decision to grant West Papua to the Indonesians. Whether he was his best mate or not, nearly 40 years have passed and no Australian government since has bothered to pull the Indonesians up. It would seem Australia in general has had no interest in the plight of West Papuans, and in spite of some politicians objections in the 50s (which had more to do with fears around Europe withdrawing its sphere of interest than care for the indigenous peoples of the region) has since abandoned any desire for West Papua to be independent.
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I'm not reading any apology.

Are you embarrassed about calling on Blackcat for backup yet? He's probably still busy writing his thesis on how QEII is an alien lizard.
 
pokerspiv said:
I'm not reading any apology.

Are you embarrassed about calling on Blackcat for backup yet? He's probably still busy writing his thesis on how QEII is an alien lizard.
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What apology have you earned for being demonstrably wrong?

I don't want to back you too far in a corner because of your proclivity to threaten people with physical assault.
 
pokerspiv said:
If you remember, it was you who singled out this 1 aspect (that Calwell and Whitlam disagreed) and asked me to prove it. I did prove it, and now you're claiming this was my argument from the start. It wasn't. You are so angry at being wrong you've forgotten what the point of your argument was.
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Ahahaha, no you didn't.
 
pokerspiv said:
I linked to a speech of Calwell specifically highlighting his opposition to Indonesian takeover of West Papua. What more do you want?
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You made this claim:

pokerspiv said:
Calwell was the leader at the time that the US and UN approved the annexation, in 1962. He was furiously opposed to Indonesia taking over Papua.

Him and Whitlam had a big falling out over it.
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No evidence of his and Whitlam's falling out. But if they did disagree it was no matter - even Menzies disagreed with Calwell over the issue.
 
It wasn't the only thing they disagreed on. They also had a pretty big disagreement over who should be leader of the Labor party.
 
pokerspiv said:
It wasn't the only thing they disagreed on. They also had a pretty big disagreement over who should be leader of the Labor party.
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Duh.

Anyway, back on topic.

The reason why people care about this is that the majority can be whipped up into a frenzy about anything if the movement is given enough energy. The question you should be asking is who gives this energy? Essentially it belongs in two groups, those who see Israel as an outpost of US imperialism and oppose its existence on those grounds, and anti semites.

That is not to say anywhere near to all of those who care about Gaza belong to these groups, theirs is a genuine concern, but they are probably not aware that what keeps the outrage running underneath all that are two rather distasteful political movements.
 
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I'm not sure if he's actually David Icke, but he's certainly a fan.
 
#RubbleBucketChallenge
 
Weird thread.

It's based off the strange assertion that the plight of Islamic refugees fleeing from ISIS was somehow downplayed (on the grounds it was at the hands of other Muslims), when the opposite was true. Not only was it NOT downplayed, there was a concerted effort to take in those refugees (mainly) while at the same time we were bombing and fighting ISIS, with an effort to restore the region to the rule of the actual governments in charge.

We bombed the Taliban. We bombed ISIS. We bombed Al Queda. We bombed Assad. We bombed Hussein. In all those cases we attempted to force a regime change.

If we treated Palestinians the same as we did those suffering at the hands of ISIS, we'd form a coalition, bomb the s**t out of Israel, force a regime change, accept Palestinian refugees, and give them their own State to return to.
 
Malifice said:
Weird thread.

It's based off the strange assertion that the plight of Islamic refugees fleeing from ISIS was somehow downplayed (on the grounds it was at the hands of other Muslims), when the opposite was true. Not only was it NOT downplayed, there was a concerted effort to take in those refugees (mainly) while at the same time we were bombing and fighting ISIS, with an effort to restore the region to the rule of the actual governments in charge.

We bombed the Taliban. We bombed ISIS. We bombed Al Queda. We bombed Assad. We bombed Hussein. In all those cases we attempted to force a regime change.

If we treated Palestinians the same as we did those suffering at the hands of ISIS, we'd form a coalition, bomb the sh*t out of Israel, force a regime change, accept Palestinian refugees, and give them their own State to return to.
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US UK and Australia did a shedload more damage in mesopotamia than bibi's regime and i dont support them neither but for rigours sake

fair is fair Mal , if one wants to hold the israelies accountable , one needs to find introspection first *


* and I support points by Max Blumenthal AND Melanie Phillips
 
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