Society/Culture Why does inequality matter?

[Admiral Byng]

It's not a binary thing, 1 or 0 Gini coefficient. It's what number to aim at, somewhere around 0.3 seems to be the long term average for a modern industrialised democracy.

 

[CatFan79]

22 per cent of Australian children under the age of 15 live in a household that has ran out of food at some stage over the past year

CEOs and their big wages are the problem right?

BTW this stat (if true) is not a 'we didn't earn enough money to buy food' problem, it's a 'we can't get our shit together coz we waste our money on stupid crap' problem.

ie social problem, not poverty problem.

Throwing money at these people will not fix the problem, if that's your solution.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Im sure they're happy though.

I find the figures you posted very hard to believe. Even if they are true the problem has not been caused by rich people .

The best way to fix poverty in Australia is to do the following

1.Reduce taxes
2.Stop worrying about climate change
3.Change our IR laws
4.Cut back on immigration
5.Provide a strong incentive to get people of welfare and into work

 

[Bombermania]

CEOs and their big wages are the problem right?

BTW this stat (if true) is not a 'we didn't earn enough money to buy food' problem, it's a 'we can't get our shit together coz we waste our money on stupid crap' problem.

ie social problem, not poverty problem.

Throwing money at these people will not fix the problem, if that's your solution.

But are they wasting their money or are you assuming that they are, as you are either unable or unwilling to support the case for higher newstart or whatever payment uni students would be on?

Newstart and DSP are way too low, considering in the next breathe we have people saying that the ALP's purposed changes to franking credits will cost them $30k or more yet Newstart and DSP which are core functions of government are considerably less.

 

[Benny78]

A topic that many on the left like to talk about is rising inequality across Australia and the most of the western world. It is true that the gap between the rich and the rest of society is growing but why is that a problem?

Trying to make life better for middle and working-class people is a good thing, but why care about the gap between them and the rich?

Peoples qualities of life continue to rise because we are constantly developing new commodities both essential and non-essential that makes our life better. A working-class person in 2018 has life better than a rich person did back in 1918.

Let me clear up one big myth that rich people take from everyone else, wealth is accumulated by performing a large number of voluntary transactions on the free market. Rich people do not steal other people’s money.

My opinion is that all complaints about inequality simple relate to jealousy, so lets focus on making life better for everyone rather than being jealous because someone else has more money.

Of course the rich take from everyone else. They use human resources and exploit the worker by paying him significantly less than the ridiculous amounts of money they make off employing him. That's how they become rich.

The problem with the wealthy is they can't possibly run anything that big themselves. They make their money by shorting and relying on their employees/partners.

There's nothing good about wealthy people. An individual who owns a window installation company brings in 5 mil p.a. by paying his 16 indian staff 40 dollars an hour. A better scenario would those 17 people working between 4 businesses making 750k p.a. more tax would be paid as well.

There's also a huge problem with tradies making 6 figure wages in this country. Go to law school instead of ripping people off and riding their career off the capital growth of peoples homes. That's their growth and not yours to take a slice out of because you stopped applying yourself towards a career before you finished school.

It seems whenever someone receives huge amount of growth in the family home after working a lifetime. Every dead beat lines up to take a slice, local councils and lenders included.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Of course the rich take from everyone else. They use human resources and exploit the worker by paying him significantly less than the ridiculous amounts of money they make off employing him. That's how they become rich.

The problem with the wealthy is they can't possibly run anything that big themselves. They make their money by shorting and relying on their employees/partners.

There's nothing good about wealthy people. An individual who owns a window installation company brings in 5 mil p.a. by paying his 16 indian staff 40 dollars an hour. A better scenario would those 17 people working between 4 businesses making 750k p.a. more tax would be paid as well.

There's also a huge problem with tradies making 6 figure wages in this country. Go to law school instead of ripping people off and riding their career off the capital growth of peoples homes. That's their growth and not yours to take a slice out of because you stopped applying yourself towards a career before you finished school.

It seems whenever someone receives huge amount of growth in the family home after working a lifetime. Every dead beat lines up to take a slice, local councils and lenders included.

When do rich people force others to work for them ?

When do rich people force others to buy a commodity from them ?

These are all voluntary actions.

 

[HairyO]

Im sure they're happy though.

I go without breakfast often.

Are those kids not eating by choice?
Are they not eating because their parents are deadbeats?
Are they not eating because the boss of Westpac earns $7.4 million per year?

I would be looking at governments which get about $1 trillion to spend each year and ask why they cant ensure basic minimum standards for the needy.

I wouldnt be looking at someone who may well donate more to charity in a year than everyone you know will donate in all your lifetimes.

 

[Funkalicous]

Of course the rich take from everyone else. They use human resources and exploit the worker by paying him significantly less than the ridiculous amounts of money they make off employing him. That's how they become rich.

The problem with the wealthy is they can't possibly run anything that big themselves. They make their money by shorting and relying on their employees/partners.

There's nothing good about wealthy people. An individual who owns a window installation company brings in 5 mil p.a. by paying his 16 indian staff 40 dollars an hour. A better scenario would those 17 people working between 4 businesses making 750k p.a. more tax would be paid as well.

There's also a huge problem with tradies making 6 figure wages in this country. Go to law school instead of ripping people off and riding their career off the capital growth of peoples homes. That's their growth and not yours to take a slice out of because you stopped applying yourself towards a career before you finished school.

It seems whenever someone receives huge amount of growth in the family home after working a lifetime. Every dead beat lines up to take a slice, local councils and lenders

Your example seems to be specific to tradies which makes it difficult for me to address. You've also implied in your example that all the workers are homogeneous, with the same set of skills and the potential to be self employed or to go into a partnership (e.g. each employee owning the same percentage of the business and taking home 750k p.a). If they can, they should. Sounds like a great idea. Why work for someone else if you can be self employed? Although it's understandable if someone wanted to build up experience until they have the confidence. It's also a financial risk to start up a business, especially while banks have the power to take your house if the business goes belly up.

In a large corporate enterprise equal ownership becomes a pipedream. That's because the skillset is more varied, where we all contribute to an output, but some people are an investment and others are an overhead - but important all the same. There's also a structured hierarchy or a corporate ladder. As you climb the ladder the pay gets better, but the responsibility also grows. This is how "rich people" run a large business. There's delegation across other rich people with the richest person at the top of the hierarchy. In the corporate world if you want better pay you need to out-compete your co-workers and climb the corporate ladder. Or if everyone happens to be equally good, ensure the business is successful so that when the business grows it grows by employing new people beneath you.

 

[Funkalicous]

I go without breakfast often.

Are those kids not eating by choice?
Are they not eating because their parents are deadbeats?
Are they not eating because the boss of Westpac earns $7.4 million per year?

I would be looking at governments which get about $1 trillion to spend each year and ask why they cant ensure basic minimum standards for the needy.

I wouldnt be looking at someone who may well donate more to charity in a year than everyone you know will donate in all your lifetimes.

We're approaching the end of the financial year. The ABC need to burn off the remaining expenditure lest they come in under budget. You can expect a rapid fire amount of low quality articles with non scrutinised data. I'm sure they have a healthy roadmap of headlines they would like to see. The magic trick is to connect it with some semi-tangible figures..

 

[HairyO]

Of course the rich take from everyone else. They use human resources and exploit the worker by paying him significantly less than the ridiculous amounts of money they make off employing him. That's how they become rich.

The problem with the wealthy is they can't possibly run anything that big themselves. They make their money by shorting and relying on their employees/partners.

There's nothing good about wealthy people. An individual who owns a window installation company brings in 5 mil p.a. by paying his 16 indian staff 40 dollars an hour. A better scenario would those 17 people working between 4 businesses making 750k p.a. more tax would be paid as well.

There's also a huge problem with tradies making 6 figure wages in this country. Go to law school instead of ripping people off and riding their career off the capital growth of peoples homes. That's their growth and not yours to take a slice out of because you stopped applying yourself towards a career before you finished school.

It seems whenever someone receives huge amount of growth in the family home after working a lifetime. Every dead beat lines up to take a slice, local councils and lenders included.

How is your multimillion dollar small business where everyone earns $200k a year going?

 

[CatFan79]

The problem with the wealthy is they can't possibly run anything that big themselves. They make their money by shorting and relying on their employees/partners.

You mean taking big loans and HUGE risks to start their own business (of which more than 50% fail) and then offering employment to people who would otherwise not have a job? Arseholes.

 

[Benny78]

When do rich people force others to work for them ?

When do rich people force others to buy a commodity from them ?

These are all voluntary actions.

All the time. I can't even keep more than 2 tuna or chop my own firewood because your mates want their precious industries protected. They know literally anyone can do them and are afraid of that. Can't take redgum anymore. Because the loggers want to jack the price up from 100 per tonne to 350 per tonne, so they can kill old people across the murray region and find a viable way to drop out at yr10.

There's nothing glorious about getting to something first before everyone else, and stealing it from them. Only to distribute it to them at a rip off price. That's more or less what the people you constantly defend do. Then give themselves a big pat on the back for providing jobs. All they do is provide for themselves at the expense of everyone else.

So let's all keep buying redgum and tuna because we're literally forced to. Watching the loggers and netters lobby to the governments to tie my hands and disallow me from doing it myself. So they can make a career of out doing something anyone could do, just like the kitchen assembler.

 

[Benny78]

Who loves paying the $80hr call out fee to epoxy a bit of drain pipe together? I need a qualified supergluer to do it because I'm too incapable myself. I'm considered too incapable by the government to the point of voiding my insurance. As geelong_crazy26 said this forces me into rip off avenues by having to hire a plumber with his yr10 call out fee higher than a Dr. Did you know most mechanics charge 70-80 an hour? Lol I was a mechanic, it's lego. It's a $30 an hour job at most! That really is the problem with our society. Bogans making more than 5 figures.

I don't think any of these people make their money honestly. I think they lobby to governments and the system is adjusted to benefit them accordingly. Which is why I see hectares of redgum, have a chainsaw. But still actually find myself forced to pay 350 per tonne to a commercial lumber yard.

 

[Benny78]

You mean taking big loans and HUGE risks to start their own business (of which more than 50% fail) and then offering employment to people who would otherwise not have a job? Arseholes.

It's a load of shit. They profit off their workers and turn it around like they are the job providing god. If people were greatful for their jobs I'm sure they would tell you. Are you grateful for their labour and loyalty?

I'm starting a business after I flip my house. Because it's literally the easiest thing to do and only sector that doesn't get attacked by both sides of politics. Nothing gets a freer ride than small business. I pulled zionist amounts out of a house over 2 years. All from exploiting young couples trying to copy me making money. Stealing their super too. All on the basis the bandwagoners think a second boom comes right after the first. Yes their choice, but only as a result of investors scaring them into becoming priced out. Which is wrong in the first place. They're only buying in fear of missing out. I'm stealing peoples ability to ever own their own house.

Anyone who has done both would tell you bosses are a protected species who don't have to pay tax.

 

[Bombermania]

Of course the rich take from everyone else. They use human resources and exploit the worker by paying him significantly less than the ridiculous amounts of money they make off employing him. That's how they become rich.

The problem with the wealthy is they can't possibly run anything that big themselves. They make their money by shorting and relying on their employees/partners.

There's nothing good about wealthy people. An individual who owns a window installation company brings in 5 mil p.a. by paying his 16 indian staff 40 dollars an hour. A better scenario would those 17 people working between 4 businesses making 750k p.a. more tax would be paid as well.

There's also a huge problem with tradies making 6 figure wages in this country. Go to law school instead of ripping people off and riding their career off the capital growth of peoples homes. That's their growth and not yours to take a slice out of because you stopped applying yourself towards a career before you finished school.

It seems whenever someone receives huge amount of growth in the family home after working a lifetime. Every dead beat lines up to take a slice, local councils and lenders included.

That isn't stealing in the sense that the worker doesn't create the business, he or she simply is employed by that business to undertake certain work, if that business didn't exist then that worker wouldn't have that job, in your example the 16 employees are paid $40 dollars an hour which for a full time person is $1,600 per week or $83,200 p.a, hardly a poor exploited worker.

Disagree that there isn't anything good about wealthy people, and considering every Australian worker has a super fund then every Australian worker is by default owning capital and benefiting from other people's work.

 

[Bombermania]

It's a load of shit. They profit off their workers and turn it around like they are the job providing god. If people were greatful for their jobs I'm sure they would tell you. Are you grateful for their labour and loyalty?

I'm starting a business after I flip my house. Because it's literally the easiest thing to do and only sector that doesn't get attacked by both sides of politics. Nothing gets a freer ride than small business. I pulled 400k out of a house over 2 years. All from exploiting young couples trying to copy me making money. Stealing their super too. All on the basis the bandwagoners think a second boom comes right after the first.

Anyone who has done both would tell you bosses are a protected species who don't have to pay tax.

Actually many small business owners do mortgage their home to start their business, you seem to be confusing start up small businesses with successful investors or owners of more established businesses and again as I just wrote, the worker contributes nothing to the running of a business beyond the provision of their labour so they are not being stolen from unless that employer is not paying whatever that workplace conditions are as in the terms of employment which is a contract.

 

[Benny78]

Actually many small business owners do mortgage their home to start their business, you seem to be confusing start up small businesses with successful investors or owners of more established businesses and again as I just wrote, the worker contributes nothing to the running of a business beyond the provision of their labour so they are not being stolen from unless that employer is not paying whatever that workplace conditions are as in the terms of employment which is a contract.

Without their labour the business turns over 5 figures. The guy alone simply isn't capable of any major wealth for himself without other peoples labour.

 

[Benny78]

How is your multimillion dollar small business where everyone earns $200k a year going?

Better than it would if I tried it alone. It wouldn't be a multi million dollar business without the help of those everyone earning 200k. That's why I'm technically exploiting them! I should be proud. The "job god"

 

[Bombermania]

Without their labour the business turns over 5 figures. The guy alone simply isn't capable of any major wealth for himself without other peoples labour.

In the case of window installation, the window fitters are not the ones going out and bringing in the work, they are simply completing the work, tradesman running a business of that size will usually still do the quoting work themselves.

 

[Benny78]

That isn't stealing in the sense that the worker doesn't create the business, he or she simply is employed by that business to undertake certain work, if that business didn't exist then that worker wouldn't have that job, in your example the 16 employees are paid $40 dollars an hour which for a full time person is $1,600 per week or $83,200 p.a, hardly a poor exploited worker.

Disagree that there isn't anything good about wealthy people, and considering every Australian worker has a super fund then every Australian worker is by default owning capital and benefiting from other people's work.

People need money to survive. That's why they want/need to work. If you gave them all money and things they wouldn't work. And all of a sudden those employers would start offering a lot more than minuscule wages. The only reason people are willing to work for so little and make companies rich is because they are forced to. Otherwise they starve and live with no power/water

 

[Benny78]

In the case of window installation, the window fitters are not the ones going out and bringing in the work, they are simply completing the work, tradesman running a business of that size will usually still do the quoting work themselves.

I knew one personally. Paid no tax less than 20k p.a. I will be paying 70k tax this year lol. He is far wealthier. He claimed a bmw 7 series for himself and a holden grange for his stay at home housewife, who he had made "director" of the business.

There would be at least 3 on every street in this country. Tradies are tax cheats. Then usually align conservatively and attack "bludgers". Obviously an insecurity thing to divert attention from themselves. They infuriate me. They are deadset scum. There are obviously some brilliant and honest tradies, but these outspoken backwards thinking alcy ones really need a kick up the backside. I mean who do they honestly think they are? Dropout alcy's attacking pensioners with lymphoma as useless and lazy lol. They are scum!

 

[Bombermania]

People need money to survive. That's why they want/need to work. If you gave them all money and things they wouldn't work. And all of a sudden those employers would start offering a lot more than minuscule wages. The only reason people are willing to work for so little and make companies rich is because they are forced to. Otherwise they starve and live with no power/water

Considering many Australians enjoy the best payrates in the world, I don't see any evidence to suggest that as wages rise, they work less.

$40/h is not a minuscule wage but in saying that pretty much every person goes to work to live, rather than lives to work.

I knew one personally. Paid no tax less than 20k p.a. I will be paying 70k tax this year lol. He is far wealthier. He claimed a bmw 7 series for himself and a holden grange for his stay at home housewife, who he had made "director" of the business.

There would be at least 3 on every street in this country. Tradies are tax cheats. Then usually align conservatively and attack "bludgers". Obviously an insecurity thing to divert attention from themselves. They infuriate me. They are deadset scum. There are obviously some brilliant and honest tradies, but these outspoken alcy ones really need a kick up the backside.

Agree with this comment as in many tradies do like to portray themselves as workers yet in the next breathe attack the unemployed while actively taking advantage of tax breaks then dismissing anyone who doesn't prescribe to their world view as being captive to P.C or having never had a "real" days work as though being a tradie is the only form of work.

That bloke should be reported to the ATO.

 

[HairyO]

I knew one personally. Paid no tax less than 20k p.a. I will be paying 70k tax this year lol. He is far wealthier. He claimed a bmw 7 series for himself and a holden grange for his stay at home housewife, who he had made "director" of the business.

There would be at least 3 on every street in this country. Tradies are tax cheats. Then usually align conservatively and attack "bludgers". Obviously an insecurity thing to divert attention from themselves. They infuriate me. They are deadset scum. There are obviously some brilliant and honest tradies, but these outspoken backwards thinking alcy ones really need a kick up the backside. I mean who do they honestly think they are? Dropout alcy's attacking pensioners with lymphoma as useless and lazy lol. They are scum!

I dont really agree, but I do enjoy your passion. Thus the Like.

Agree with this comment as in many tradies do like to portray themselves as workers yet in the next breathe attack the unemployed while actively taking advantage of tax breaks then dismissing anyone who doesn't prescribe to their world view as being captive to P.C or having never don't a "real" days work as though being a tradie is the only form of work.

That bloke should be reported to the ATO.

The union movement are the master of this. Portray themselves as low and middle income working class, while actually earning huge amounts of money for often completely unskilled or low skilled labour.

 

[Bombermania]

I dont really agree, but I do enjoy your passion. Thus the Like.



The union movement are the master of this. Portray themselves as low and middle income working class, while actually earning huge amounts of money for often completely unskilled or low skilled labour.

An example being the wages paid for holding a road works sign is something like $85 an hour.

 

[HairyO]

An example being the wages paid for holding a road works sign is something like $85 an hour.

I liked the one about train drivers in QLD earning up to $200,000. Janitorial cleaners (ie clean bathrooms and tables and things, not the massive expensive equipment) at Melbourne's desal plant (which isnt even needed) earn up to $120,000.

But that isnt just Labor governments handing cash to unions. NSW government is giving everyone billions with our light rail project that will take people from nowhere to nowhere - assuming they ever actually build it.