Agreed and will continue if our development does not improve, you'd have to agree that externally at least the club is actively putting things in place to improve that and you'd also have to agree that this is different to the last 4 years where it seems the club just sat on its hands and trumpeted to the world "look at us we're Collingwood" while hoping in desperation the planets would align. I view your opinion as leaning toward a pessimistic one and the result you forsee for the club and our opposition would suggest we have virtually nil improvement to come in the short to medium term.I wouldn't say no hope. If things click for us in 2018 we could sneak a spot in the 8 but overall I would judge the talent on our list being in the bottom half of the competition