Autopsy Why don't Collingwood have better key forwards?

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adammania9 said:
In 11 rounds, the Pies' top four forwards from 2017 (Fasolo, Elliott, Reid and Moore) have combined for a grand total of 11 goals yet they're fourth for points for in season 2018. Quite crazy how our forward line is coming together still without a permanent forward target.
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Nothing wrong with the premise of why we dont have better key forwards but the post I was ridiculing didnt mention key forwards. It was a general spray at everything. And in typical Essendon style, he refuses to admit he was wrong. Amazed he hasnt said hes surprised to be sitting here.

On key forwards, Lynch must surely be thinking Collingwood is the club for him. But thats for later in the season to determine whether we want him and whether he will improve us, what his salary is, and what we have to give up in a trade and list sacrifices to land him.
 
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I appreciate this has already blown up in my face a couple of times with Mason Cox and Brody Mihockek having some pretty good games against WC. And Buckley is still in charge, four years after I created the thread.

But it's still an enduring question about Collingwood, isn't it?

Do Collingwood have a developing key forward on their list? Have they drafted one since Cloke left? Or is JDG the man?

It seems like a strange recruiting blind spot. They obviously back the Cox/Mihocek combination, but I'm not convinced, despite them performing disproportionately well against WC.
 
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For example, in 2017 they took Jaidyn Stephenson at #6, overlooking Aaron Naughton and Darcy Fogarty.

I'm not criticising the pick per se, because Stephenson looked a fantastic player early days and still looks likely to play 200 games. But it suggests recrtuiting a key forward wasn't necessarily top of the list.

To be fair to Collingwood, they haven't had a lot of early picks recently.
 
Sweet Jesus said:
I appreciate this has already blown up in my face a couple of times with Mason Cox and Brody Mihockek having some pretty good games against WC. And Buckley is still in charge, four years after I created the thread.

But it's still an enduring question about Collingwood, isn't it?

Do Collingwood have a developing key forward on their list? Have they drafted one since Cloke left? Or is JDG the man?

It seems like a strange recruiting blind spot. They obviously back the Cox/Mihocek combination, but I'm not convinced, despite them performing disproportionately well against WC.
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Terrible draft/trade decisions and list management failures. Pure and simple.

Will probably cop hate for this but Cox is now a solid AFL player. Not a star but has a lot of value. If we had a Tom Lynch or Jeremy Cameron he'd look even better.
 
Rustin Cohle said:
Terrible draft/trade decisions and list management failures. Pure and simple.
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Specifically?

Don't get me wrong. Every team has picks that you can evaluate in hindsight and think they could/should have done something differently.

But it's striking to me that Collingwood have Cox/Mihocek as their preferred combination and really nothing else developing underneath. Unless I'm missing someone?

Wouldn't you draft someone, even speculatively, in the years since Cloke finished?

Looking at that, I'm surprised Collingwood didn't go to every draft thinking "OK we need to pick a tall forward, even if we use a late pick".

Rustin Cohle said:
Will probably cop hate for this but Cox is now a solid AFL player. Not a star but has a lot of value. If we had a Tom Lynch or Jeremy Cameron he'd look even better.
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Fair enough. But I still think it's weird that you haven't drafted anyone else who might be earmarked or could step in. Most sides have at least one developing tall forward on their list. Is there one at Collingwood?
 
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The pick involved in the Dayne Beams trade ended with Port picking Mitch Georgiades.

That one stings the nostrils.
 
We drafted McMahon and have will Kelly developing not exactly ideal but it’s something
 
Sweet Jesus said:
The pick involved in the Dayne Beams trade ended with Port picking Mitch Georgiades.

That one stings the nostrils.
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The only thing that stings in the nostrils is you desperately trying to feed your ego
 

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Sweet Jesus said:
I appreciate this has already blown up in my face a couple of times with Mason Cox and Brody Mihockek having some pretty good games against WC. And Buckley is still in charge, four years after I created the thread.

But it's still an enduring question about Collingwood, isn't it?

Do Collingwood have a developing key forward on their list? Have they drafted one since Cloke left? Or is JDG the man?

It seems like a strange recruiting blind spot. They obviously back the Cox/Mihocek combination, but I'm not convinced, despite them performing disproportionately well against WC.
Click to expand...

This overall question does not have an easy answer, is it purely incorrect target recruiting, diabolical list management or a combination of both?

In any case lack of key forwards (or good ones) is only one lil corner of the problem that is the basket case of the senior Collingwood football team.

There's also severe lack of depth, sure our top say 10 players are absolute walk ups in any team, however after that it drops off into the abyss - arguably worse than North right now.

Then there's less than ideal game play and structure - however this seems to be focus of the panel at the minute. Speaking of panel Harves and Sanderson have been charged with ball movement and transition over the last two years, coincidence no?

Then there's the less than enthusiastic million dollar players who think that flags are a meh side bonus, not to mention rumors of player dissent after the self inflicted fire sale pick the carcass it's alright we'll pay whoever you get to play for you.

I'll add to that, the damning 'do better' report, how about they do a report on how the actual team performs and how to improve that? Oh that's right they did that, how'd that turn out? If I am correct there's still no silverware.

Actually I'm quite 'proud' that this team is actually considered a finals contender amid all that, sure you've got a really good question here but it's barely touching the surface on a club that on face value seems hell bent on self destruction.
 
Carringbush2010 said:
This overall question does not have an easy answer, is it purely incorrect target recruiting, diabolical list management or a combination of both?

In any case lack of key forwards (or good ones) is only one lil corner of the problem that is the basket case of the senior Collingwood football team.

There's also severe lack of depth, sure our top say 10 players are absolute walk ups in any team, however after that it drops off into the abyss - arguably worse than North right now.

Then there's less than ideal game play and structure - however this seems to be focus of the panel at the minute. Speaking of panel Harves and Sanderson have been charged with ball movement and transition over the last two years, coincidence no?

Then there's the less than enthusiastic million dollar players who think that flags are a meh side bonus, not to mention rumors of player dissent after the self inflicted fire sale pick the carcass it's alright we'll pay whoever you get to play for you.

I'll add to that, the damning 'do better' report, how about they do a report on how the actual team performs and how to improve that? Oh that's right they did that, how'd that turn out? If I am correct there's still no silverware.

Actually I'm quite 'proud' that this team is actually considered a finals contender amid all that, sure you've got a really good question here but it's barely touching the surface on a club that on face value seems hell bent on self destruction.
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Fair enough. I'm not trying to piss in your pocket.
 
Sweet Jesus said:
Fair enough. I'm not trying to piss in your pocket.
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I know you're not, and I'm not having a go at you either. I'm merely pointing out that if we want to analyze all the problems at Collingwood then there is nowhere near enough real estate on BF to approach the tasks. Let alone those at the club having any success in addressing them.
 
Sweet Jesus said:
Specifically?

Don't get me wrong. Every team has picks that you can evaluate in hindsight and think they could/should have done something differently.

But it's striking to me that Collingwood have Cox/Mihocek as their preferred combination and really nothing else developing underneath. Unless I'm missing someone?
Click to expand...

Beams deal sticks out. Not even due to the result, with his complete lack of contribution on field. He could've been top fove in our B&F and I doubt our position would be any different than it is right now. The idea that it was even necessary in the first place and the cost to get him is even worse.

There seems to be this view internally at the club that key forwards have limited value for their cost, yet we're willing to sell the farm for any top level midfielder (Treloar, Beams). Look at the forwards we've traded for over the past decade... Quentin Lynch, Jesse White, Darcy Cameron. It's not pretty reading. Unfortunately, the club doesn't seem to realise that an elite key forward has been the centerpiece for just about every premiership team for the past 30 years (with a couple of exceptions). Cox and Mihocek are both good players but neither should be the key man in any forward line. Cox as a second tall taking a lesser defender and Mihcek as a third tall would transform our forward set up into something far more dangerous.

I don't mean to say this all as though elite key forwards are easy to pry from other teams or develop from the draft either. But to not even appear to try or see the value in them is unforgivable.
 
Rustin Cohle said:
Beams deal sticks out. Not even due to the result, with his complete lack of contribution on field. He could've been top fove in our B&F and I doubt our position would be any different than it is right now. The idea that it was even necessary in the first place and the cost to get him is even worse.

There seems to be this view internally at the club that key forwards have limited value for their cost, yet we're willing to sell the farm for any top level midfielder (Treloar, Beams). Look at the forwards we've traded for over the past decade... Quentin Lynch, Jesse White, Darcy Cameron. It's not pretty reading. Unfortunately, the club doesn't seem to realise that an elite key forward has been the centerpiece for just about every premiership team for the past 30 years (with a couple of exceptions). Cox and Mihocek are both good players but neither should be a key man in any forward line. Cox as a second tall taking a lesser defender and Mihcek as a third tall would transform our forward set up into something far more dangerous.

I don't mean to say this all as though elite key forwards are easy to pry from other teams or develop from the draft either. But to not even appear to try or see the value in them is unforgivable.
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Should have taken Ben Brown?

Or Tom McDonald, who would have been free to a good home?
 
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